Did the nuns in 'Sound of Music' really sin?

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nobody said:
I don’t see the benefit of telling my 8 year old daughter that “It’s only a movie!” I think it is good to take advantage of opportunities like that to talk about sin and morality.
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Saw the movie. Can’t remember if the nuns inconvenienced the Nazi’s by hiding or stealing the car parts. If the first, I would say no sin. If the second venial. Only my opinion.
 
I would have to say that there would be no sin because the nuns only did what they did to help the Captain and his family avoid service to the Nazis. If it is still considered sinful by some, I think it would only be a venial sin, considering the circumstances.

However, if it were not just a movie, I’ve often thought while viewing that scene that if it were truly realistic, the nuns could have been shot once the Nazi’s figured out what they did. It was, after all, a time of war, so that is perhaps not an unrealistic outcome, considering the evil of the times. Probably not something you would want to discuss with your child, though, at least not yet.
 
Joan of Arc jumped from a tower to escape her prisoners. At her trial she said every prisoner of war was entitled at least one chance to escape. I see the removed car parts along those lines. The nuns were helping the Von Trapp prisoners of war to escape.
  • Westy
 
sawman said:
Repeat after me,“It’s only a movie!” The Sound of Music is more fiction than fact,which is par for Holywood’s course.Even if it were true it would be no sin to inconvienience Nazis.
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I was a postulant and novice in a Benedictine community here in Colorado. The monastery I was in was founded by German nuns who had lived through WWII, either here or in Germany. Many of them knew the community of nuns represented in the movie (Abbey in Nurnberg – forgive my spelling). The older sisters of my community said the sisters at Nurnberg actually did help the VonTrapps escape, though I don’t know what their actions were.
SwizzleStick said:
However, if it were not just a movie, I’ve often thought while viewing that scene that if it were truly realistic, the nuns could have been shot once the Nazi’s figured out what they did.
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According to the nuns I was with, the sisters at Nurnberg did indeed suffer Nazi retribution for their part in helping the VonTrapp family escape. Of course, the Nazis cleared out most monasteries during the attempted takeover of the world.

The Benedictine sisters I was with in Colorado came from Eichstatt, Bavaria - the Abtei St. Walburg. They were allowed to remain in their monastery because Eva Brown’s aunt was a nun there. Still, the nuns there suffered all of the same difficulties and threats as everyone under Nazi occupation.
 
How could it be a sin?

It wasn’t stealing, it was disabling the vehicle of an unjust aggressor.
 
I just reserved Maria’s book at the library. My interest is truly piqued. 😃
 
If we are allowed to TAKE LIVES for just cause (self-defense, defending the innocent in a just war, etc), how could stealing from the wicked to save the innocent be wrong?
 
Ohwesty said:
Joan of Arc jumped from a tower to escape her prisoners. At her trial she said every prisoner of war was entitled at least one chance to escape. I see the removed car parts along those lines. The nuns were helping the Von Trapp prisoners of war to escape.
  • Westy
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Yes, but Joan of Arc also said at that same trial that her ‘voices’ (Sts Michael, Margaret and Catherine) told her that she had sinned by trying to escape, but that she had been forgiven for the sin.
 
To the OP

remember what Archbishop Fulton Sheen said

“Hearing the confession of nuns is like being stoned to death with popcorn.”
 
I was surprised to see the recent activity on this thread.

I saw today that #6 of the Yahoo top 10 searches was “Maria von Trapp”. I wonder why.

A twist to the original question: the nuns told their superior “we’ve sinned”. Either they didn’t really mean it, because they knew their actions were justified, or, the really thought they sinned. Does thinking something is a sin, and doing it anyway, make it a sin regardless of the objective presence of a sinful act?
 
nobody said:
Does thinking something is a sin, and doing it anyway, make it a sin regardless of the objective presence of a sinful act?
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Yes.

The distinction between material sin and formal sin is useful here. Material sin refers to the objective sinfulness of the act, whereas formal sin refers to the subjective awareness of the actor.

A material sin is present when an action in fact violates moral law, regardless of whether or not the actor is aware that it does. A formal sin is present if the actor is aware that an action violates moral law, *regardless of whether or not it actually does.

*One may be mistaken in one of two ways and still commit formal sin:
  1. Performing an objectively good or indifferent action while believing it to violate moral law when in fact it does not (a mistake of law); or
  2. Performing an action which one believes is objectively sinful, but cannot objectively be so (a mistake of fact).
    An example of the first case would be a person who eats meat on Tuesday, while believing that the Church prohibits it.
An example of the second case would be a person who steals money laying out on the table only to find out later that the money was his own that he had misplaced.

I think that about covers it. What do you think?
VC
 
Thanks, VC, that’s very informative. One thing that I don’t think is covered by your two examples (correct me if I’m wrong) is whether someone can know that something is not a sin, but nevertheless judges it to be sinful in their case.

My example is that I understand from the writings of St. Louis de Montfort that not saying the Rosary every day is not even a venial sin. But in my case I consider it a sin if have failed to do so, because it represents spiritual indifference. It might not be so for another person who omits to do so for another reason. Please elucidate me!
 
nobody said:
First off, I know this is a classic and it seems silly to say “spoiler alert”, but I’d rather look like a doofus than actually spoil this movie for someone that hasn’t seen it yet.

So…

End of the movie, when the nuns say, “Mother, we have sinned”, showing that they sabbotaged the nazi’s cars: was it a sin? I was watching it with my 8 year old, and she asked, “did they sin?” I explained that what they did was okay because they were saving the family’s lives. My husband said it was a joke, that they were not sinning at all. What do you think? How would you explain it to a child?
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**i think a better question would have been: Did the nuns in “Sound of Music” really SING? 😉 **
 
I’ve seen the movie a number of times, but not recently.

So, I don’t remember the exact scene that this is referring to. But, I think the nuns would have been saying “Mother, we have sinned” six times a day anyway. Their sin may have been relying on themselves, rather than relying on God.
 
I remember watching this scene as a child and asking my grandmother the same thing.
 
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