Did the Pope mandate first communion and confirmation

[Cathtech]

My mother in-law who is a Methodist and has a slight anti-Catholic bias, was talking to her Catholic friends in New York who told her that the Holy Father mandated that 1st Communion and Confirmation had to be done at the same time. Everyone in New York (at least where her friends are) are extremely upset with the Pope over this.

I thought this was up to the Bishop of the diocese. It doesn’t make sense to me given Pope Benedict’s willingness to allow the Latin Mass and traditional views to go this route

Has anyone else heard about this ? Given her feelings toward the Catholic church, I would like to debunk this one If I can.

 

[Phemie]

My mother in-law who is a Methodist and has a slight anti-Catholic bias, was talking to her Catholic friends in New York who told her that the Holy Father mandated that 1st Communion and Confirmation had to be done at the same time. Everyone in New York (at least where her friends are) are extremely upset with the Pope over this.

I thought this was up to the Bishop of the diocese. It doesn’t make sense to me given Pope Benedict’s willingness to allow the Latin Mass and traditional views to go this route

Has anyone else heard about this ? Given her feelings toward the Catholic church, I would like to debunk this one If I can.

I haven’t heard any comments from Pope Benedict on the topic. That said, the sacraments of initiation were Baptism followed by Confirmation THEN Communion until 1910. Many dioceses are going back to that order. It make more sense that way. Why is your MIL & her friends upset by this.

Our diocese did that for 9 years, confirming and giving Communion to children 6 and up who were deemed ready to receive those sacraments.

 

[Cathtech]

Thank you for the quick response and history lesson.

Unfortunatley the reason is not a good one. They told her the kids were getting cheated out of a party. This shallowness just fed her dislike of the Church.

I’m just trying to make sure I have all the information to set this straight. My wife and kid’s joined the Catholic Church this Easter much to my in-laws dismay,

They are looking for reasons to knock the Church and I want to make sure I have all the facts when I defend her. They have more then enough preconceived notions.

 

[Walking_Home]

Thank you for the quick response and history lesson.

Unfortunatley the reason is not a good one. They told her the kids were getting cheated out of a party. This shallowness just fed her dislike of the Church.

I’m just trying to make sure I have all the information to set this straight. My wife and kid’s joined the Catholic Church this Easter much to my in-laws dismay,

They are looking for reasons to knock the Church and I want to make sure I have all the facts when I defend her. They have more then enough preconceived notions.

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If I am understanding this right -there are some NY Catholics upset because First Communion and Confirmation done at the same time --cheats kids out of party. This does not make sense to me. If they really want a party --they can have a party when the kids make their First Communion and Confirmation.

 

[Phemie]

Thank you for the quick response and history lesson.

Unfortunatley the reason is not a good one. They told her the kids were getting cheated out of a party. This shallowness just fed her dislike of the Church.

Now isn’t that a serious reason to be upset that the children are getting the special graces and gifts of the Holy Spirit early!

I’m just trying to make sure I have all the information to set this straight. My wife and kid’s joined the Catholic Church this Easter much to my in-laws dismay,

They are looking for reasons to knock the Church and I want to make sure I have all the facts when I defend her. They have more then enough preconceived notions.

If you look at Canon Law and the Catechism of the Catholic Church you’ll see that Confirmation is always listed as the second of the Sacraments of Initiation, followed by Communion (the same order that unbaptized adults & older children who convert receive these sacraments). Confirmation has a direct connection to Baptism and is supposed to be administered to babies at the same time as Baptism if they are in danger of dying. That shows that it isn’t a sacrament of maturity and is not about what the person does to be confirmed but about what effect Confirmation has on the person. As such it makes a great deal of sense to give kids old enough to receive Communion all the benefits of Confirmation at the same time after the proper catechesis.

If the parties are the only thing the parents feel are important, somewhere along the line we’ve missed a great deal of catechesis.

 

[Phemie]

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If I am understanding this right -there are some NY Catholics upset because First Communion and Confirmation done at the same time --cheats kids out of party. This does not make sense to me. If they really want a party --they can have a party when the kids make their First Communion and Confirmation.

I think they’re upset that the kids only get to have 1 party instead of one for each of the sacraments. That is the shallowest reason for upset at the change that I’ve ever heard - and I thought I’d heard them all in the 9 years we were doing this.

 

[Cathtech]

I think they’re upset that the kids only get to have 1 party instead of one for each of the sacraments. That is the shallowest reason for upset at the change that I’ve ever heard - and I thought I’d heard them all in the 9 years we were doing this.

I totally agree. Unfortunately this kind of stuff is what my in-laws latch on to. The fact that these people made it a “Papal mandate” makes their impression even worse.

The cannon law and catechism information will be a big help in explaining the church"s position on this. I’ve got one on my desk, I should of checked it first.

I think this will give me a good starting place and hopefully get them to begin to understand the Catholic Church.

As for you comment “If the parties are the only thing the parents feel are important, somewhere along the line we’ve missed a great deal of catechesis.”

I think the problem goes a lot further than NY, but that another thread.

Thanks for all the help

 

[Walking_Home]

uote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post​

If I am understanding this right -there are some NY Catholics upset because First Communion and Confirmation done at the same time --cheats kids out of party. This does not make sense to me. If they really want a party --they can have a party when the kids make their First Communion and Confirmation.

I think they’re upset that the kids only get to have 1 party instead of one for each of the sacraments. **That is the shallowest reason for upset at the change that I’ve ever heard - **and I thought I’d heard them all in the 9 years we were doing this.

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Yes --I agree. I am wonder if there is more to their story than just loosing out on a party.

 

[Cathtech]

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Yes --I agree. I am wonder if there is more to their story than just loosing out on a party.

That may be the case. I’m sure I’ll hear more about it when they visit this week.

 

[Karl_M]

There is absoultely nothing that requires that the First Communion and Confirmation happen at the same time, although that is the trend nowadays.

Some areas also do Confirmation around age eight or so and then First Communion at about high school age.

Then again, some parishes do it the way most people are familiar with-First Communion in about the second or third grade, Confirmation about tenth grade. One deacon told me that the reason that is done is that ninth/tenth grade is about that time people start sinning with other people or by themselves (use your imagination).

They told her the kids were getting cheated out of a party. This shallowness just fed her dislike of the Church.

It would make sense to me that the kids would be upset at one party instead of two (what kid wouldn’t), but the people that told the kids that just seem to want to capitalize on the childish emotions of children. That’s indeed a shame. The grownups know better and do it anyway.

Just pray, pray, pray.

 

[Walking_Home]

There is absoultely nothing that requires that the First Communion and Confirmation happen at the same time, although that is the trend nowadays.

Some areas also do Confirmation around age eight or so** and then First Communion at about high school age. **

Then again, some parishes do it the way most people are familiar with-First Communion in about the second or third grade, Confirmation about tenth grade. One deacon told me that the reason that is done is that ninth/tenth grade is about that time people start sinning with other people or by themselves (use your imagination).

It would make sense to me that the kids would be upset at one party instead of two (what kid wouldn’t), but the people that told the kids that just seem to want to capitalize on the childish emotions of children. That’s indeed a shame. The grownups know better and do it anyway.

Just pray, pray, pray.

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Now that I had not heard. Where does this happen that First Communion is delayed until high school age.

 

[quiet52]

Unfortunatley the reason is not a good one. They told her the kids were getting cheated out of a party. This shallowness just fed her dislike of the Church.

Sounds to me like someone could have just been joking around – and that they were just pulling your mother-in-law’s leg, and she didn’t realize it.

I know people who would joke like that – but have no real resentment whatsoever about the change in administration of the Sacraments.

 

[jimmy]

My mother in-law who is a Methodist and has a slight anti-Catholic bias, was talking to her Catholic friends in New York who told her that the Holy Father mandated that 1st Communion and Confirmation had to be done at the same time. Everyone in New York (at least where her friends are) are extremely upset with the Pope over this.

I thought this was up to the Bishop of the diocese. It doesn’t make sense to me given Pope Benedict’s willingness to allow the Latin Mass and traditional views to go this route

Has anyone else heard about this ? Given her feelings toward the Catholic church, I would like to debunk this one If I can.

Why does this bother you? Originally all Christians were baptized, confirmed and recieved the Eucharist at the same time. It is still done like this in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Why does this bother you? Originally all Christians were baptized, confirmed and recieved the Eucharist at the same time. It is still done like this in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

**Amen!

One of the most beautiful sights is seeing how Fr. Peter’s face lights up as he gives the little ones the Body and Blood of Christ.**

 

[marytk]

sadly there are people for whom the party and the expensive clothes are the main part of the day’’ This is really sad for the PARENTS because it means that they have no real idea of what is happening when they receive our Lord.

 

[puzzleannie]

My mother in-law who is a Methodist and has a slight anti-Catholic bias, was talking to her Catholic friends in New York who told her that the Holy Father mandated that 1st Communion and Confirmation had to be done at the same time. Everyone in New York (at least where her friends are) are extremely upset with the Pope over this.
.

well if he did me and the rest of hundreds of directors of religious education from around the country at the NCCL convention did not get the memo.

Bishop’s conference of each country sets dates for first communion and confirmation, within limits of canon law, and bishop of each diocese sets the ages within that range.

Most places in US it is at the age of reason for first communion preceded by first confession, and confirmation any time in middle school or high school. However some dioceses are experimenting with “restoring the original order of the sacraments” and obeying church documents which recommend following the RCIA model for sacramental preparation and reception, and conferring both at the same time, or confirmation [shortly] before first communion.

Perhaps such a change has been enacted in her diocese and her friends, who are likely to be Catholic grandparents who remember a different tradition (which actually has been in effect for only about 100 years since Pope Pius X) are upset.

Can’t imagine why a Methodist would care one way or t’other.

 

[Cathtech]

Why does this bother you? Originally all Christians were baptized, confirmed and recieved the Eucharist at the same time. It is still done like this in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

**Amen!

One of the most beautiful sights is seeing how Fr. Peter’s face lights up as he gives the little ones the Body and Blood of Christ.**

I’m not upset, I’m trying to get all the facts before I enter into a discussion on this with my in-laws.

 

[Cathtech]

well if he did me and the rest of hundreds of directors of religious education from around the country at the NCCL convention did not get the memo.

Bishop’s conference of each country sets dates for first communion and confirmation, within limits of canon law, and bishop of each diocese sets the ages within that range.

Most places in US it is at the age of reason for first communion preceded by first confession, and confirmation any time in middle school or high school. However some dioceses are experimenting with “restoring the original order of the sacraments” and obeying church documents which recommend following the RCIA model for sacramental preparation and reception, and conferring both at the same time, or confirmation [shortly] before first communion.

Perhaps such a change has been enacted in her diocese and her friends, who are likely to be Catholic grandparents who remember a different tradition (which actually has been in effect for only about 100 years since Pope Pius X) are upset.

Can’t imagine why a Methodist would care one way or t’other.

To her it’s just another reason the Catholic faith is the wrong one.

 

[Phemie]

I totally agree. Unfortunately this kind of stuff is what my in-laws latch on to. The fact that these people made it a “Papal mandate” makes their impression even worse.

The cannon law and catechism information will be a big help in explaining the church"s position on this. I’ve got one on my desk, I should of checked it first.

You know something, if your MIL is upset by the shallowness I’m in full agreement with her, Methodist or not.

Maybe if you point out that such shallowness saddens Catholics who know that the importance of the sacraments has nothing to do with parties might help her see that we’re not ALL nuts & shallow in our faith.

 

[Cathtech]

You know something, if your MIL is upset by the shallowness I’m in full agreement with her, Methodist or not.

Maybe if you point out that such shallowness saddens Catholics who know that the importance of the sacraments has nothing to do with parties might help her see that we’re not ALL nuts & shallow in our faith.

Again I agree. My family does it’s best to try and set a good Catholic example, especially around them.
I’m sure the shallowness is part of it. I think its also gets into the protestant view of Catholics and the Papacy. This is just another in a long line of issues about the Church I’ve dealt with them on.