Did the protestant revolution come from the Roman Catholic Church only? Or did Churches break away from the Orthodox also?

[Nektarios_Lady]

Not all Eastern Orthodox use the Julian calendar; many celebrate Christmas on December 25, and use the Gregorian calendar, but not all, because the Gregorian calendar is identified as uniquely Catholic, so switching to it is a significant break with Orthodox tradition, and perceived by many as a concession to the Catholic Church, even though it is more of a concession to the modern world, which has universally adopted the Gregorian reckoning.

There is not a single Orthodox Church who uses the Gregorian Calendar.

There are several Orthodox Churches, like mine, who use the modified Julian Calendar and as a results in the day for the celebration of the Nativity of Jesus Christ on the Julian Calendar to fall on the secular calendar of December 25th.

Because of the matching date of the Nativity, I can understand the confusion, but Orthodox have never used the Gregorian Calendar - which among Orthodox parishioners is commonly referred to as the “Catholic Calendar”.

 

[Nektarios_Lady]

Not being aware of it is not the same as these not existing.

Small examples of protestant ‘churches’ infiltration into Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches:

Ukrainian Lutheran Church
Marthoma Syrian Church
– it’s offshoot, the St. Thomas Evangelical Church
Georgian Baptist Church
Armenian Evangelical Church
Ethiopian Tehadiso
Romanian Baptist Church

The Ethiopian Church’s teachings, and probably the Syrian as well, like the Copts, were condemned by Ecumenical Council pre-Great Schism.

All the other Churches you mention were either directly or indirectly were created Protestants from the post-Great Schism Catholic Church and then later sending their Missionaries into Orthodox Countries to gain converts and establish their own version of Christianity Churches in those countries, surely everyone can see there’s no way that could be likened to a Protestant Church being split directly from the Orthodox Church.

 

[SyroMalankara]

There is not a single Orthodox Church who uses the Gregorian Calendar.

There are several Orthodox Churches, like mine, who use the modified Julian Calendar and as a results in the day for the celebration of the Nativity of Jesus Christ on the Julian Calendar to fall on the secular calendar of December 25th.

Because of the matching date of the Nativity, I can understand the confusion, but Orthodox have never used the Gregorian Calendar - which among Orthodox parishioners is commonly referred to as the “Catholic Calendar”.

Look up the Orthodox Church of Finland and which calendar they use.

Outside of your Communion, the Orthodox Churches in India follow the Gregorian along with all Christians.

Interestingly, while Pope St. Gregory is usually given the credit for the calendar commissioned by him, it was His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius N’met Allah of the Syrians who actually did the astronomical calculations on the commission.

See here:
goo.gl/PGA9Oy

 

[SyroMalankara]

You’re talking about Orthodox Christians who would be the equivalent of the Catholic’s SSPX, Old Catholics, Polish Catholic Church, etc.These groups are Orthodox Christians.

So you say, but many of these fringe groups of the Orthodox variety would say you are not Orthodox based on all kinds of things from the kind of Calendar you use, to your Communion praying with “heretics”, allowing “monophysites” to attend and sometimes receive Eucharist, and on and on. Even the SSPX doesn’t deny the mainline Catholic Church is Catholic, although they strongly disagree with the lack of Liturgical decorum and some modernizations.

 

[SyroMalankara]

surely everyone can see there’s no way that could be likened to a Protestant Church being split directly from the Orthodox Church.

Maybe you are unaware, most of today’s protestants would split from the founders that started their own group, since most of those founders are too “papal” for them; this includes Luther, Calvin, Zwingli and their view on Mary, along with Luther’s appreciation for trappings of Tradition.

 

[adf417]

I think even your side of the Tiber recognizes this, that most western non-Catholics today do not think of their membership in their communion as a protest against the Catholic Church. They were, often, born into it, raised in it, as were their parents. They usually view the Catholic church down the block as the church their friend at work goes to.
Sure; there are those who view the Catholic Church as one to be avoided, but that’s not the case for the typical seat in the pew.

Jon

Jon I wish this were as prevalent as you make it seem. In my area, (and I know this is a small sampling) from a practical standpoint, if we ever get the majority of non-Catholics to join us in an ecumenical prayer service on our turf I will believe you. BTW, the measuring stick I use is the minority, open minded, sincere, non-Catholics who dont mind dialogue and strive for unity like yourself, who tell me things like “I’m sorry more non-Catholics didn’t show up. They just don’t seem to understand who is and who is not Christians.”

As long as there are people like you who continue trying to teach others that Christianity is bigger than our name I have hope. However, while I do believe this teaching on our side of the Tiber is most effective in our Christian walk and actions as opposed to dialogue, the tool of dialogue on your side of the river is equally important. Neither not being used enough IMO.

Peace brother Jon!!!

 

[Nektarios_Lady]

Even the SSPX doesn’t deny the mainline Catholic Church is Catholic, although they strongly disagree with the lack of Liturgical decorum and some modernizations.

Actually, this comment is completely untrue. I’ve spent hours in discussions with SSPX priests. They are adamant that they themselves alone are truly Catholic and that the Catholic Church is NOT actually Catholic. They have plenty of evidence to back up their claims that they’re open and willing to share with any honest inquirer. If you wish, you could spend time with them to get first hand accounts of what they believe.

As a member of the Catholic Church, you recognize SSPX are Catholic, but they don’t recognize you as Catholic AND exactly the same way, as a member of the Orthodox Church, I recognize the Genuine Orthodox Church is Orthodox, but they don’t recognize me as Orthodox.

 

[dvdjs]

There is not a single Orthodox Church who uses the Gregorian Calendar.

Church of Finland, IIRC

 

[dvdjs]

• Bogomils - reformers of the east before the Reformation and the Great Schism for that matter.
• Old Believers - although one US parish has entered into communion with ROCOR.

Here is a link with a good list.
theorthodoxchurch.info/main/church/non-canonical-orthodox-churches/

I am delighted to hear that non-canonical churches derived from canonical Orthodoxy are still considered Orthodox. I’ll remember that when some get upset about Greek Catholics identifying as Orthodox in Communion with Rome. :

 

[Efnouti_Nai_Nan]

Look up the Orthodox Church of Finland and which calendar they use.

Outside of your Communion, the Orthodox Churches in India follow the Gregorian along with all Christians.

Interestingly, while Pope St. Gregory is usually given the credit for the calendar commissioned by him, it was His Holiness Patriarch Ignatius N’met Allah of the Syrians who actually did the astronomical calculations on the commission.

See here:
goo.gl/PGA9Oy

This was very interesting to read. Thank you, friend. I did not know this patriarch before, but we in the Coptic Orthodox Church love the Syrian Orthodox. It is always interesting to know the impact they have on the history of Christianity. We have a few Syrian “Coptic” popes, like HH Abraam (10th century), who was pope when the famous miracle of Moqattam mountain happened by this pope and St. Simon the Tanner. But I didn’t know anything about the Syrians and the Western calendar until now. That is very interesting!

 

[SyroMalankara]

Actually, this comment is completely untrue. I’ve spent hours in discussions with SSPX priests. They are adamant that they themselves alone are truly Catholic and that the Catholic Church is NOT actually Catholic. They have plenty of evidence to back up their claims that they’re open and willing to share with any honest inquirer. If you wish, you could spend time with them to get first hand accounts of what they believe.

As a member of the Catholic Church, you recognize SSPX are Catholic, but they don’t recognize you as Catholic AND exactly the same way, as a member of the Orthodox Church, I recognize the Genuine Orthodox Church is Orthodox, but they don’t recognize me as Orthodox.

I believe you’ve been speaking to sedevacantists, not the mainline SSPX. If they believe the Catholic Church isn’t Catholic, they have a duty to elect a Pope. They haven’t attempted, nor claimed the right to do this. In fact, they claim the direct opposite:

http://sspx.org/en/faq-page#n1998:

What about the sedevacantists?
Due to the unorthodox actions and statements of several recent popes, some have been led to believe that these popes have separated themselves from the Church by heresy, ipso facto vacating the seat of the papacy (sede vacans, literally, empty seat). However, the fact is that formal (obstinate, or willful) heresy, the only heresy bearing with it the effect of excommunication, cannot be claimed, much less proven in the case of the pope, as there is no higher ecclesiastical authority which may censure or reprimand him.

 

[wynd]

You’re talking about Orthodox Christians who would be the equivalent of the Catholic’s SSPX, Old Catholics, Polish Catholic Church, etc.These groups are Orthodox Christians.

I dunno about that. I think the Old Catholics and PNCC have gotten pretty liberal over the years (by Catholic standards)—accepting contraception and homosexuality, denying transubstantiation, etc.

 

[Peter_J]

I think the Old Catholics and PNCC have gotten pretty liberal over the years

The Old Catholics have become more liberal, no question. That’s why (not to oversimplify) they are no longer in communion with the PNCC.

 

[Peter_J]

…

 

[boar2roar]

There are debates that are recorded and put online and its normaly Roman Catholic vs protestant… or protestant vs protestant.

Why is it that there isnt much protesting against the Orthodox Church?

The very knowledge of the Eastern Orthodox seems hidden from protestants

Before martin luther protested… wasnt there ALREADY a split?

Why does this seem so hidden from people…instead of being the hottest debate in all christendom?

Roman Catholic vs Eastern Orthodox

There is its called the old believers who are like our SSPX and or sedevacantists . Protestants also protest the orthodox church since basically any change in doctrine can be attributed to that large group. There are also a bunch of unofficial orthodox churches like patriarch of Kiev that could be considered a split.

Thats because Orthodox churches travel bad and are confined to their dominant country mostly. But they most definitely are impacted by protestantism. They loose members oversees and for example Romania I know has a growing protestant population.

A split? You mean a protestant split? The Hussites and the lollards were protestants before Lutheran but they didn’t last as long as the groups after the reformation. Christian humanism wanted reform but they didn’t split and their movement ended eventually.

 

[boar2roar]

You’re talking about Orthodox Christians who would be the equivalent of the Catholic’s SSPX, Old Catholics, Polish Catholic Church, etc.These groups are Orthodox Christians.

It wouldn’t put the old catholics in the same sentence as those. Old Catholics are very liberal and non traditional. They are much more similar to high church protestants like anglicans or Lutherans. They are not traditionalist (SSPX, old believers) or Catholics with a slight change (PNC).