Did the Roman Catholic Church combine Christianity with Paganism?

[MeInMississippi]

So far I’ve gotten a good bit of scholarly evidence that yes the church did pick up some of the practices of the pagans and Christianized them. Syncretism seems to be pretty prevalent in the transition process from paganism to Christianity.

 

[ralfyman]

It’s not so much a combination but was influenced by various cultures.

 

[FiveLinden]

I think syncretism is very like ‘combine’ in meaning. I see little evidence for either. As I said ‘influence’ is a better world. In comparing religions you can compare beliefs, scriptures, forms of prayer, clothing, building styles, musical tastes, ritual foods - anything you like. If you take the big ones - belief, scriptures and forms of prayer I think you would be hard put to it to find substantial overlaps between pre-Christian Roman beliefs and Christian beliefs (either orthodox of among the many alternative Christianities eventually eliminated by what became the Catholic Church). Even so simple a belief as the birth of a child to a virgin was not found in Roman belief. All women who were said to have conceived had sex with a God. This is not really surprising because Christianity derived from Judaism. It was one of a number of Jewish millennial movements. It converted Romans away from their religion and did not attempt to absorb those religions. It destroyed ‘pagan’ temples, images of the Gods and burnt their books. Not a very syncretic form of behaviour.

 

[Crocus]

Jeremiah 10 etc:
Thus says the LORD: Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, for the Gentiles are dismayed at them. For the customs of the peoples are futile; for one cuts a tree from the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with nails and hammers so that it will not topple.

If you are connecting the reading with Christmas trees, you are misreading it. The passage refers to carving and adorning idols to be set up as gods for worship, in place of the One true God.

 

[AlNg]

If you are connecting the reading with Christmas trees, you are misreading it. The passage refers to carving and adorning idols to be set up as gods for worship, in place of the One true God.

Were Christmas trees ever mentioned in the Bible? Or is it true that decorations of evergreen plants at the time of the winter solstice was a pagan custom?

 

[Crocus]

My post was about the scripture reference from Jeremiah, that it was not about anything like a Christmas tree, as you seemed to suggest.

 

[Crocus]

Were Christmas trees ever mentioned in the Bible? Or is it true that decorations of evergreen plants at the time of the winter solstice was a pagan custom?

My post was about the scripture reference from Jeremiah, that it was not about anything like a Christmas tree, as you seemed to suggest.

To be more clear, it was in direct response to your query.

How do you explain the cutting down of a tree, placing it in the house or church, and decorating it with ornaments.
Jeremiah 10 etc:

The scripture you quoted is not about decorating a tree.

 

[niceatheist]

Also remember that Christendom in its turn persecuted paganism. The reign of Theodosius to was notorious for the mistreatment of pagans.

 

[AlNg]

The scripture you quoted is not about decorating a tree.

But Catholics do decorate trees and put them in their houses and Catholic churches around Christmastime do they not?

 

[adamhovey1988]

I have that book, a bit dated (as it came out around the time I was born, and I’m in my 30s), but very good.

 

[Crocus]

But Catholics do decorate trees and put them in their houses and Catholic churches around Christmastime do they not?

Yes we do, with no hint of worshipping a pine or a spruce. We also serve turkey with stuffing (recipe passed down from past generations), and fruitcake though everyone says they “hate fruitcake.” And share gifts. And light candles. And set up a crèche that is overlooked by angels, shepherds & wise men. Small “t” traditions that point to wonder and thanksgiving for the Word made flesh!

Your profile says you are Christian. Is this foreign and pagan to you? What is your Tradition?

 

[AlNg]

Is this foreign and pagan to you?

Yes. I think that the decorating of Christmas trees is a pagan celebration. At least that is what I have read about its history. The placing of a tree in the house at wintertime and decorating the house with evergreens, is not mentioned in the Bible AFAIK, but it is mentioned in some pagan histories.

 

[Crocus]

I respect your opinion so long as you acknowledge that the bible does not forbid such decorative traditions in celebration of religious truths. Neither are they prescribed.

Edit: Please, I am interested to know which Tradition of Christians reject decorating with greenery?

Another edit: Poking around Wikipedia, seems Catholics were quite late to the party, after Protestants in setting up Christmas trees.

Christmas tree - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[AlNg]

I respect your opinion so long as you acknowledge that the bible does not forbid such decorative traditions in celebration of religious truths. Neither are they prescribed.

I personally see nothing wrong with adapting pagan customs to Christianity. However, the title of the thread asks whether or not Catholics have combined Christianity and Paganism. I would say yes and that the custom of bringing a tree into the house or decorating the house with evergreens is much older than indicated in the wikipedia article you have cited. If you look up the Yalda tree, or the Yalda customs, you might find some information on a very ancient Persian custom. In ancient Persia, Yalda festivities were oftentimes accompanied by an evergreen tree which was decorated by items in silk cloth. It was much later when the Germans and northern Europeans learned about the Yalda tree and adapted it for use during Christmastime. Some Buddhists remember Buddha by the tree under which he sat for five days as he became enlightened. For another example, i was told by a rabbi that it is an old Jewish custom for Jewish men to cover their heads when entering their places of worship. He said that the ancient pagan Roman custom was for a man to uncover his head when entering similar buildings. And this is what Catholic men and others (except for Jewish men) do when they enter their places of worship.

 

[Crocus]

However, the title of the thread asks whether or not Catholics have combined Christianity and Paganism.

I disagree that the practice is combined, which implies that substance of both remain.

Rather, as @FiveLinden said earlier the superficials like “clothing, building styles, musical tastes, ritual foods - anything you like” and yes, decorations take influence from surrounding cultures. The core of Christianity does not diminish despite influence.

the big ones - belief, scriptures and forms of prayer I think you would be hard put to it to find substantial overlaps between pre-Christian Roman beliefs and Christian beliefs

Take away the superficials, you still have Christianity.
Take away the big ones, no Christianity.

 

[AlNg]

If you take the big ones - belief, scriptures and forms of prayer I think you would be hard put to it to find substantial overlaps between pre-Christian Roman beliefs and Christian beliefs

Perhaps Roman beliefs, this is true. But there are ancient Persian beliefs that seem to overlap somewhat with Christian beliefs.

Christmas is an old Tradition from Persian/Iran, Mozhgan Hudiburgh کریسمس یک سنت کهن از دیار پارسیان/ ایران

Christmas is an old Tradition from Persian/Iran, Mozhgan Hudiburgh کریسمس یک سنت کهن از دیار پارسیان/ ایران

www.academia.edu

 

[Francis]

@MeInMississippi

However, my professor wants me to find sources that make these allegations against the Church, as he says he has never heard this claim. I will still look into the material you have given as I need solid sources from both sides of the argument. I can’t think of a better source than the Vatican! Thank you so much again!!

Hi ,i hope after an honest argument on both sides, your conclusion would be that God is all loving and mercy and shows no discrimination.some posters mentioned Christmas trees ,i thing it would be a nice example and case study.which brought peace and unity, and the Christmas spirit ,though the Nativity or the crib is given more importance at Christmas for catholic apart from the Mid night Holy Mass .

There are times God choose pagan kings to do the will of God even the most wicked as in Daniel 3:32,You have handed us over to our enemies, lawless and hateful rebels, _ and to an unjust king, the most wicked in all the world._when Israel the Chosen children of God in order to bring them repentance to them to repentance.You can see throughout history what God has done.

There is also times, God used animals like the most stupidest animal like the donkey, in order to teach us or make us understand 2 Peter 2:16 but was rebuked for his own transgression; a speechless donkey spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.

God has revealed through many philosophers and thinkers, wise men from centuries, a glimpse or a page, a ray of light in order to have hope for the gentiles though it has obscured because of their darkness of mind nevertheless God shows mercy Acts 26:23 and Isaiah 9:2 The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light;those who lived in a land of deep darkness—on them light has shined.**

There are times God uses Gentiles or in other word non-Christians ,to correct rebuke and bring us to repentance.In God’s sight there is no distinctions as in Matthew 5:45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good,and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous

Romans 2:11 For God shows no partiality.Acts 10:45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,

Thus the Catholic Church respect’s the people’s culture and customs in order to bring them closer to God and believe in living in peaceful and harmony as Jesus never rejected any one ,so the Catholic Church also welcomes people of all nationalities with out any discrimination. .

 

[DENNYINMI]

Acts 17:23

For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship–and this is what I am going to proclaim to you…………………………………………………

I believe God was attempting to come to persons in ways they did not recognize, but it was to the Israelites He chose to spread His reality and Truth. (Hence, the chosen people)

I love how St. Paul uses the word “ignorance” with the implication they were teachable, not ‘stupid’…and would now be rewarded with the revelation of the One True God.

IF God can use pagan objects to point to HIm, to bring persons to HIm, we can better understand salvation history through the ages until the fullness of time was at hand.

 

[Wesrock]

The Pope is known as ‘Pontiff Maximus’ the same title as the pagan high priest of ancient Rome.

This is rather nitpicky. Latin was the vernacular. This is at least on the same level of saying Jews syncretized pagan practices because they have titles of priest and high priest and other near east religions had priests and high priests. And maybe you are saying that. But I don’t see common terms as being syncretic in themselves.

 

[Londoner]

There must be something useful for you in The Golden Bough I guess?