Did the Saints intercede with themselves?

[TomS333]

(I may have misinterpreted)

The Saints are in Heaven. Heaven knows no time.
Does this mean that every Saint ever is already in Heaven from our Earthly viewpoint?
If so, does that mean that Saints may have intervened with their own lives?
For example, is it possible that Heavenly Saint Peter assisted Simon Peter? Or did Saint Mother Theresa suggest good things to Sister Theresa?

 

[Tulitas]

No.
They asked the Lord for help and He did. Then their lives were deemed exemplary and they became saints.
They all suffered the same struggles that any person does. The difference is that they responded well to the commands of God.

 

[JamalChristophr]

No, it’s not accurate to say that “Heaven knows no time”. Your premise is false. God is outside of time. That is true.

Once a new heavens and a new Earth are established, then we can say that we are living in eternity, but until then, even the saints in Heaven are watching things change and occur in our temporal world “down below”.

 

[Gorgias]

even the saints in Heaven are watching things change and occur in our temporal world “down below”

Umm… with what eyes, exactly?

 

[CRM_Brother]

In the Beatific vision, we behold God; we behold Him as He is, including his knowledge of the universe. As temporal beings ourselves, we cannot think outside of time. We may be eternal, but (according to St. Thomas Aquinas) that does not mean that we are present at all times, but rather move forward in time eternally from the moment of our creation. Those saints who were created (conceived) at a time previous to our own live in Heaven while experiencing our Lord’s knowledge of the present. It is only through this knowledge of God which they come to know the earth as it moves forward in time.

 

[Gorgias]

In the Beatific vision, we behold God; we behold Him as He is, including his knowledge of the universe.

Ooh… no. That’s not what we believe. We don’t say that we’ll behold the universe and all its secrets! We’ll experience God, that’s for sure … but it doesn’t imply that we know all He knows!

If you have any magisterial teaching that contradicts what I’m asserting, I’d love to see it!

 

[TheOldColonel]

I’m cerainly counting on this loophole. The elaborate shrine I’ve set up in my living room to myself should really impress St. Old Colonel.

 

[Kei]

I don’t know that Heaven doesn’t know time.
God certainly is above time, but Heaven for us mortals is a little questionable.

But, you can pray and pray right now for help in becoming a saint.

 

[CRM_Brother]

I didn’t say that we learn everything God knows. You seem to believe that the knowledge which God holds can be separated from His being. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, God’s nature, essence and mind are one. In experiencing one, we experience all. This is not to say that we can comprehend everything. This is impossible. We are finite beings and can only experience the finite capacity for knowledge. We were created to live in time. Our very souls were created in a moment in time, thus our souls persist in time for all eternity. Any experience of God must therefore be revealed to us through time. In heaven, we live in the present for all eternity. We experience Him and His knowledge in the present. God’s foreknowledge is hidden from us, as is the future ages. In the Beatific vision we see the world as it is by means of God, not simply as our fallible eyes may perceive it (as we did on earth).

If saints do not learn about the world through God while in heaven, the only two alternatives seem to be that the human soul possess some sort of power which allows the mind to transverse into the physical world after death to hear and answer petitions or there is some grace at work outside of the experience of God in Beatific Vision which informs the souls in heaven of petitions addressed to them. Personally, I find this is somewhat ridiculous. The human soul has no ability to roam the earth on its own power, nor is it possible for there to be grace separate from an experience of the nature of God, as all graces are contained within Him.

If you have any magisterial teaching that contradicts what I’m asserting, I’d love to see it!

You have made a simple proposition that I am wrong. If I am, please show me the dogmatic or doctrinal teachings of which I am in error. I am basing my argument on St. Thomas Aquinas’s argument on the unity of God found in the Summa Theologica and De ente et essentia, ad fratres socios; and the concept of eternity within time found in De aeternitate mundi, contra murmurantes.

 

[Gorgias]

If saints do not learn about the world through God while in heaven, the only two alternatives seem to be that the human soul possess some sort of power which allows the mind to transverse into the physical world after death to hear and answer petitions or there is some grace at work outside of the experience of God in Beatific Vision which informs the souls in heaven of petitions addressed to them. Personally, I find this is somewhat ridiculous.

Dr David Anders, of the “Called to Communion” program, suggests that it really isn’t even necessary for the souls in heaven to have individual, personal knowledge of the requests being made to them. Rather, he suggests, they can simply intercede on their behalf to God: “Heavenly Father, please hear the requests that your people are making through my intercession.” That would jive pretty well with the centurion’s statements to Jesus – he doesn’t have to be there for Jesus’ power to be manifest; all it takes is Jesus’ assent, aside from his presence or knowledge of what and how it happens.

I didn’t say that we learn everything God knows.

No? You didn’t? Unless you’re moving the goalposts (since I only responded to the claims of full knowledge of the universe), you’re mistaken. Let me refresh your memory:

In the Beatific vision, we behold God; we behold Him as He is, including his knowledge of the universe.

So, no… we don’t suddenly learn everything about the universe when we are in the Beatific Vision. And, you can tell me that your assertions are based on Aquinas all you want… but I’d love to see a citation from him supporting the claim you made. (Since you backed away from it in your response, I’m guessing you realize that you’ve made a mis-step; after all, your only justification for your claim is now that saints must know what’s going on in the world in order to intercede… and that’s not part of the Deposit of the Faith, either!)