Did we leave God out of it?

[ukdal1]

I am in RCIA and I have been going to as many classes and to hear as many speakers as I can (on top of my RCIA classes). My question is, I recently went to hear a speaker (for several weeks) at a restaurant and when all the people came in and got situated, the person in charge asked us to bow our heads and ask our Blessed Mother to help us and bless us while we were there and we said the Hail Mary. Then we proceeded to the speaker and so on. What I am thinking is, I am 100% for asking our Blessed Mother for her intercession, but shouldnt we ask God also??? Twenty feet away were bar patrons listening to us and probably thinking “There’s those Mary worshipping Catholics”, because where I come from thats what alot of non-Catholics think about us, just from my experience anyway. I know where the persons heart was, 100% in the right place. I try to pray the Rosary every night with my son and I ask the Blessed Mother to pray for me every day, but I dont know if they thought about where we were and how we are supposed to be representing the Lord’s Church in the world and the fact that there are alot of people that are ignorant (like I used to be) of what we believe. I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt but if I had been sitting at that bar before I converted, I would have went away from there thinking the wrong thing, personally speaking. I have thought about that ever since these things happened and it just bothered me. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. I just wanted to ask your opinion folks, thanks!!!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Anytime we invoke our prayers to Mary, she takes them straight to Jesus. As she brought Him to us through her fiat, “thy will be done”, she brings us to Him as well.

The “Hail Mary” is not about Mary INSTEAD of God. It’s about God and His gift, through Mary, of bringing Christ to us, and us to Christ.

 

[NotWorthy]

IMO, **every **prayer should begin with thanks and praise for God. I may thank Mary for her prayers and intercessions, but I thank God for His many gifts always.

The rest of my prayers always seem to fall into place once I"ve begun in this matter.

 

[ukdal1]

IMO, **every **prayer should begin with thanks and praise for God. I may thank Mary for her prayers and intercessions, but I thank God for His many gifts always.

The rest of my prayers always seem to fall into place once I"ve begun in this matter.

Thats what I mean.^^^^^^ I didnt think that what was done was wrong, I just thought that it might have misunderstood…

 

[puzzleannie]

I am guessing the leader also began and ended the prayer or session with the Sign of the Cross, with which Catholics traditionally begin and end prayer, including the rosary, and by means of which all prayer is directed to God.

Praying to Mary is especially appropriate for RCIA, which is a process that involves, among other things, sponsors who are already living the Catholic life as mentors, models and companions for the candidates and catechumens. Mary is the exemplar of all that a sponsor should be, and the perfect companion for someone on that journey.

 

[love4mary]

Your observation was “Dead On” ukdal1. I live in the “Bible Belt” protestant south and that is exactly what they believe when we pray the Hail Mary. We as Catholics know for certain its all about our Love and Relationship with Jesus and that the prayer hinges on HIM, but to untrained ears (if I may use that term), it sound All about Mary.

Personally, and I speak only for myself, maybe I would have started out with the Hail Mary, but followed it with the Our Father.

 

[Tonks40]

Personally, and I speak only for myself, maybe I would have started out with the Hail Mary, but followed it with the Our Father.

Rather, start out with the Our Father, then the Hail Mary, then the Glory Be.

 

[gardenswithkids]

I am guessing the leader also began and ended the prayer or session with the Sign of the Cross, with which Catholics traditionally begin and end prayer, …

“In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
As Annie says, the sign of the cross both how we begin prayer and end prayer. It in itself is also a simple and direct prayer. Catholics invoke the Holy Trinity, while our arm motions simultaneosly give remind us and praise Jesus’ cross–the source of our salvation.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am in RCIA and I have been going to as many classes and to hear as many speakers as I can (on top of my RCIA classes). My question is, I recently went to hear a speaker (for several weeks) at a restaurant and when all the people came in and got situated, the person in charge asked us to bow our heads and ask our Blessed Mother to help us and bless us while we were there and we said the Hail Mary. Then we proceeded to the speaker and so on. What I am thinking is, I am 100% for asking our Blessed Mother for her intercession, but shouldnt we ask God also??? Twenty feet away were bar patrons listening to us and probably thinking “There’s those Mary worshipping Catholics”, because where I come from thats what alot of non-Catholics think about us, just from my experience anyway. I know where the persons heart was, 100% in the right place. I try to pray the Rosary every night with my son and I ask the Blessed Mother to pray for me every day, but I dont know if they thought about where we were and how we are supposed to be representing the Lord’s Church in the world and the fact that there are alot of people that are ignorant (like I used to be) of what we believe. I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt but if I had been sitting at that bar before I converted, I would have went away from there thinking the wrong thing, personally speaking. I have thought about that ever since these things happened and it just bothered me. Maybe I’m reading too much into it. I just wanted to ask your opinion folks, thanks!!!

I might agree. I tend to like the Eastern Church rule, that Mary is never presented or pictured without Jesus.

 

[TraditionalCath]

for the op,

if you ever go to one of those meetings again, and the same speaker is there, could you take the speaker aside before everything starts and ask them charitably to say the Our Father first, then the Hail Mary? would that be a thing you’d be comfortable with?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

At the risk of sounding ‘ecumenically incorrect’, I would like to remind people that there does come a point when one has ‘conceded’ too much. And I think that point has come–it is precisely BECAUSE so many Protestants have an INCORRECT idea about Mary that we must be even MORE diligent in prayer to her.

Look at the fruits, for example, of Catholics trying to, with the best of charitable intentions, ‘adapt’ or ‘explain’ that we do not ‘worship’ or ‘pray to’ Mary the way we do to God.

It is because the Protestants CHANGED the definition of words like prayer and worship that the whole situation came about!!!

And when we try to adapt to them, all we get is “Your books, etc. say YOU DO WORSHIP MARY and YOU DO PRAY TO SAINTS”.
They wind up thinking that we are liars and hypocrites because we are trying to ‘descend’ to THEIR level, instead of insisting rather than they ‘ascend’ to OUR level, which is the correct one.

I’m probably older than many here (having been a preteen when the N.O. replaced the TLM, having had nuns in HABITS teach me, etc.) and I saw the ‘rise’ of all sorts of ecumenisms and ‘changes’. Mind you, not all changes are bad. Some are neutral, some are even positive or when carried out properly COULD BE positive.

But in too many cases, ‘ecumenism’ has become, ipso facto, ‘indifferentism’ and ‘relativism’. We are told to ‘lighten up’, to ‘celebrate diversity’, to ‘focus on the similarities’. And in many ways that is fine. But it has been carried too far, by too many, such that rather than us giving FULL TRUTH, we water down to ‘mutually acceptable truth’, and even further, to ‘accepting a lesser truth as at the LEAST acceptable, at worst accepting it as equivalent to the greater truth.’

This we must guard against.

Again I repeat, Prayer to Mary is NOT “INSTEAD OF” prayer to Jesus. All prayer to Mary by definition is prayer to God. She is not a substitute for God, but neither is she IN COMPETITION with God. And for even good, sincere Catholics to WORRY that, oh heavens, we prayed one Hail Mary and NO ‘Our Father’, whatever will we do, we have ‘disrespected’ God by ‘not praying to HIM first’. . .well, that sort of legalism is exactly what Protestants will take as PROOF that THEY are RIGHT in all their thoughts of Mary-olatry.

Don’t fall for it. Give them the right teaching about what ‘prayer’ is, instead.

 

[NotWorthy]

But in the Hail Mary, where is the Thanks to God? We should always give thanks and praise to our Lord, before we ask any blessings. It puts us in the right mental perspective that all good gifts do indeed come from God.

Then you can “Hail Mary” the night away in good faith!!!

 

[love4mary]

You are right Tonks40,.,.,I guess I suffer from a bit of Key Board Dyslexia.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Not, the “thanks to God” is right IN the Hail Mary.

First, what is the angel saying, “Hail, FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD is WITH thee.”

Why is Mary “full of grace”? Because of God. Who is with Mary? God.

Blessed are you among women. (Blessed by whom? By God.)
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, JESUS. (Who is God).

Holy Mary (why is she holy? She is the mother of GOD).
Mother of God (yep),
Pray for us sinners (pray to whom? Pray to GOD)
Now and at the hour of our death. (praying for us TO GOD)
Amen. (So be it, God).

 

[Cranch]

“Mary, I am totally yours.” Pope John Paul II’s motto, Totus Tuus.“Totus Tuus. This phrase is not only an expression of piety, or simply an expression of devotion. It is more. During the Second World War, while I was employed as a factory worker, I came to be attracted to Marian devotion. At first, it had seemed to me that I should distance myself a bit from the Marian devotion of my childhood, in order to focus more on Christ. Thanks to Saint Louis of Montfort, I came to understand that true devotion to the Mother of God is actually Christocentric, indeed, it is very profoundly rooted in the Mystery of the Blessed Trinity, and the mysteries of the Incarnation and Redemption”.

—John Paul II in Crossing the Threshold of Hope,
Arnoldo Mondadori Editori, 1994

​

When we praise and bless Our Lady by saying the Angelic Salutation she always passes on these praises to Almighty God in the same way as she did when she was praised by Saint Elizabeth. The latter blessed her in her most elevated dignity as Mother of God and Our Lady immediately returned these praises to God by her beautiful Magnificat.

—St. Louis de Montfort
​

For me, praying to the Blessed Mother in any situation and without any preconditions will never be wrong.

​

 

[NotWorthy]

Not, the “thanks to God” is right IN the Hail Mary.

I had NO clue what you were talking about, until I realized that I’m “Not”. Now it makes sense.

First, what is the angel saying, “Hail, FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD is WITH thee.”

Why is Mary “full of grace”? Because of God. Who is with Mary? God.

Blessed are you among women. (Blessed by whom? By God.)
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, JESUS. (Who is God).

Holy Mary (why is she holy? She is the mother of GOD).
Mother of God (yep),
Pray for us sinners (pray to whom? Pray to GOD)
Now and at the hour of our death. (praying for us TO GOD)
Amen. (So be it, God).

Yes, there is praise for God in there. If there is thanks, it’s a little too subtle for this feeble mind.

I love to thank God for all His gifts. It puts me in the proper mindset that anything that happens good to me, is none of my doing, but the Lords. Once I realize that, all is right in my world.

Again, maybe the Hail Mary is a prayer of Thanks. To me it celebrates the greatest event in the world - The Incarnation of Christ. And the Hail Mary is a very important part of my prayer life, for it’s an integral part of the Scriptural Rosary that I love to say.

But for this simple mind, I like to start with just me and God and a simple “Thank you Lord”!!!

 

[NotWorthy]

Tantum, this is the way I like to start my day:

Dearest Lord, Thank You so much for the many gifts You’ve given to us, Your children. Without You, we wouldn’t know love and mercy. Without You, we wouldn’t exist. I wish to thank You for loving us, the way that You do. And I thank You also for Your eternal patience with all of us. With this in mind, in praise and Thanksgiving, I pray, “***Our Father…”

*** Thank You, again Lord, for all Your gifts. And thank you, too, Mary, for all of your prayers and your petitions. I ask you, Mary, to pray for our Family, your children, that God will draw us closer to Him. “Hail Mary…”

Thank you so much Mary for your motherly love. And will you pray for us, asking God to draw us to seek His Forgiveness for all of our sins, as we come to Him in prayer and supplication? “Hail Mary…”

Mary, I ask you to pray for us, that God will bless us with pure minds, bodies, and spirits, helping us to eliminate the distractions in our lives that keep us from Him. “Hail Mary…”

Jesus and Mary, in the hopes that those who are lost in this life, who are separated from God, will come to know and love the Lord like He wants all of us to, I ask you to join me in saying an “Our Father” as You taught us in the Scriptures. “Our Father…”

Thank You, again Lord. I love You so much, and wish to be with You in eternity. I offer up these prayers and petitions asking You to look with favor upon them. Lord, I know I can’t resist temptation without Your love. I do not wish to fall again, like I did _______________. And most of all, I ask for the Grace and Wisdom to do Your Will. Please be with us, today, and guide us in Your love! “Our Father…”

With that said, my day is off to the right start!!!

 

[ukdal1]

The thing is, I’m not saying that someone shouldnt have devotion to our Blessed Mother or ask her to pray for us in public by praying a Hail Mary. I’m saying given the circumstances of where we were and who was there and what part of the country I live in, that we should have at least said an Our Father or another prayer to God also. The points people have as far as using the SOTC and that we should pray to our Blessed Mother even more because of these problems are spot on. But the people in that restaurant/bar probably didnt understand what the sign of the Cross is or that the Hail Mary is giving praise to God…you see where I’m coming from???

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I do see the point, and I do include “Our Father” in my daily prayer life as well as many other prayers.

But my point is that, in a situation where it is quite possible that the main TOPIC of the speaker was on Mary, in what the OP states was one of ‘MANY’ RCIA speaking events, and where it is indeed even possible that a “Glory Be” or other specific prayer to ‘God’ alone was used, and perhaps the poster did not happen to hear it. . .

it is LEGALISM at its worst to ‘insist’ that, if “one” Hail Mary is used at a “Catholic” event, it must be evened out with an “Our Father”. . .as though a “Hail Mary” was somehow a ‘second best’, or as if by ‘only’ using the “angelic salutation” in a given situation we are denying or slighting God.

As no doubt you can tell from my siggy, I have a devotion to the Blessed Virgin. In fact, I am and have been consecrated to her according to the De Montfort consecration since 2004.

And St. Louis makes excellent points in his work–I suggest you read it, “True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin”.

All those who insist that, while they personally are devoted to Mary, ‘instead of saying Hail Mary we should be praying ‘our fathers’ and giving devotion to God" are what St. Louis termed ‘false’ devotees, or ‘scrupulous’ devotees. They insist on putting Mary and God into a false ‘competition’. They take a truth–Mary is not God–but then try to falsely extend it into, "therefore, ‘any’ prayer or devotion to Mary ‘takes it away’ from God’"

Whereas the converse is true. Any prayer or devotion to Mary is devotion to God, and devotion twice over, and more.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

…Personally, and I speak only for myself, maybe I would have started out with the Hail Mary, but followed it with the Our Father.

If I know non-Catholics are listening I pray the Our Father, a short Sacred Heart of Jesus, a short Prayer to the Holy Spirit, and THEN the Hail Mary or more than likely the Memorare.