Did you hear Joel Osteen/Pentecostal pastor make fun of the Catholic Baptism?

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Cat_Herder said:
Again, he is espousing and advocating non-Biblical beliefs that are also non-Catholic. This is not just Osteen vs the angry Catholics. It is Osteen vs the Bible, or to depersonalize it, televangelism vs the Gospel.
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What has he said that is non-Biblical?
 
As one poster has said already, Osteen is primarily a motivational speaker. He preaches ‘Christianity Light’ with a touch of ‘prosperity gospel’ thrown in.
Code: 
 But to call him a charlatan is mean and unfair. I'm quite sure that he's a sincere pastor who has met with enormous success. That alone makes him a ready target.

 While I haven't heard him often, I find him entertaining and somewhat inspirational. He certainly is good at memorizing his message and a great story-teller. 

 Usually, when he's on in this area I am leaving for church. If I am home, and want TV religion I prefer the 'Hour of Power' - in the same time slot here. That passes out 'Christianity Light' also, but it always manages to have some great music and an inspiring guest each week.

 When all is said and done, I think we need to be slow in judging these guys (and gals). There are some obvious phonies, whom I hesitate to mention by name - self-proclaimed evangelists, prophets and whatnot who seem mainly interested in collecting money (for themselves!). But people like Schuller and Osteen give hope to many, and I tend to applaud that as long as they abstain from attacking other religions, like Swaggart used to. I note that Swaggart (and his son) are back on TV, but his private life, once exposed, certainly cut him down to size.

  The same Christ can come to us in different ways, through different expressions of faith, and through different modes and houses of worship. That's why we all need to work toward a 'big tent' Christianity that permits us to think differently from one another.  

  The more people become educated, the more they will reject narrow dogmatism and think for themselves. I find that a plus and not a minus.
 
Roy5 said:
As one poster has said already, Osteen is primarily a motivational speaker. He preaches ‘Christianity Light’ with a touch of ‘prosperity gospel’ thrown in.
Code: 
 But to call him a charlatan is mean and unfair. I'm quite sure that he's a sincere pastor who has met with enormous success. That alone makes him a ready target.

 While I haven't heard him often, I find him entertaining and somewhat inspirational. He certainly is good at memorizing his message and a great story-teller. 

 Usually, when he's on in this area I am leaving for church. If I am home, and want TV religion I prefer the 'Hour of Power' - in the same time slot here. That passes out 'Christianity Light' also, but it always manages to have some great music and an inspiring guest each week.

 When all is said and done, I think we need to be slow in judging these guys (and gals). There are some obvious phonies, whom I hesitate to mention by name - self-proclaimed evangelists, prophets and whatnot who seem mainly interested in collecting money (for themselves!). But people like Schuller and Osteen give hope to many, and I tend to applaud that as long as they abstain from attacking other religions, like Swaggart used to. I note that Swaggart (and his son) are back on TV, but his private life, once exposed, certainly cut him down to size.

  The same Christ can come to us in different ways, through different expressions of faith, and through different modes and houses of worship. That's why we all need to work toward a 'big tent' Christianity that permits us to think differently from one another.  

  The more people become educated, the more they will reject narrow dogmatism and think for themselves. I find that a plus and not a minus.
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I haven’t watched enough of him to form an opinion. His perfectly manicured teeth, constant eye blinking, and hand gestures rake on one’s nerves after a while.😃
I will say this for Swaggart, rabid anti-Catholic that he was, he had a great singing voice. It’s a pity he didn’t follow his cousins into the music industry.
 
One of the posters wrote:
Code: 
  "The more people become educated, the more they will reject narrow dogmatism and think for themselves. I find that a plus and not a minus.
But for me, Tamsulosin, believing in the meaning and sacredness of Baptism is not “narrow dogmatism”.
For some people everything is relative.Nothing seems to call for respect anymore.
You believe that what people can reason for themselves hold more truth than what Jesus/God told us.
That we are wiser and more educated and know better.
I start to think that for some people although they may label themselves Christian or Catholic,
Christ, John the Baptist, etc, are just characters in an old book.They are not relevant
in REAL life.
Tonight,before falling asleep all the comedians out there tell Jesus the joke of baptizing the barbecued steak.🙂
 
Osteen doesn’t preach against baptism, period.

As for being saved by reciting the sinner’s prayer, if someone says it sincerely, and believes in Jesus, are they not immediately saved? They aren’t baptised yet, but assuming they will accept baptism at some point, doesn’t the CC say they are saved by the “baptism of desire”?

So if Osteen doesn’t overtly preach against the need for baptism, then what is there to argue with? Seems like just another excuse for an anti-protestant rant.
 
PLeeD said:
As for being saved by reciting the sinner’s prayer, if someone says it sincerely, and believes in Jesus, are they not immediately saved?
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No. The directions for obtaining salvation are:

[BIBLEDRB]Acts 2:38[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 16:16[/BIBLEDRB]

Baptism is not optional. However, if someone is not aware that they need to be baptized to be saved, then:

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity. (CCC #1261)
They aren’t baptised yet, but assuming they will accept baptism at some point, doesn’t the CC say they are saved by the “baptism of desire”?
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Baptism of desire only kicks in for people who die while awaiting and desiring baptism. This would be someone in RCIA class who perishes in an auto accident or someone stranded on a desert island who finds a Bible and converts, but dies before being rescued.
So if Osteen doesn’t overtly preach against the need for baptism, then what is there to argue with? Seems like just another excuse for an anti-protestant rant.
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Just because he doesn’t overtly do it doesn’t mean he isn’t doing it. By means of polarizing example, I’m sure you’ve noticed that the media is not overtly anti-Christian but I am sure you know that there is, in fact, anti-Christian bias in the media. Same thing with Osteen and televangelists in general. There is a subtle anti-sacramental and anti-Catholic bias.
 
Cat_Herder said:
Again, he is espousing and advocating non-Biblical beliefs that are also non-Catholic. This is not just Osteen vs the angry Catholics. It is Osteen vs the Bible, or to depersonalize it, televangelism vs the Gospel.
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Which is, by the bye, how*** I*** come to have a dog in this fight, too.
Born_Warrior said:
What has he said that is non-Biblical?
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Asked, " Is the Bible inspired?". he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:
Asked, “Are you a Christian?”, he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:
Asked, “Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?”, he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:

I should think that would be enough to make the point amply clear…
 
Cat_Herder said:
The Sinner’s Prayer, and for that matter salvation by faith alone. (This is not the right place to debate either–please start your own thread if you want to do that.)
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Believe in Jesus, you are saved. Everything else is not needed.

Like you said, no need to debate. You are saved, I am saved. BTW, I was baptized as an infant, however that has zero bearing on Salvation.
 
Born_Warrior said:
Believe in Jesus, you are saved. Everything else is not needed.
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CAF FAQ: How to start your own thread

And now back to the regularly scheduled program.
Osteen's Larry King Live Interview:
KING: How about issues that the church has feelings about? Abortion? Same-sex marriages?

OSTEEN: Yeah. You know what, Larry? I don’t go there. I just …

KING: You have thoughts, though.

OSTEEN: I have thoughts. I just, you know, I don’t think that a same-sex marriage is the way God intended it to be. I don’t think abortion is the best. I think there are other, you know, a better way to live your life. But I’m not going to condemn those people. I tell them all the time our church is open for everybody.

KING: You don’t call them sinners?

OSTEEN: I don’t.

KING: Is that a word you don’t use?

OSTEEN: I don’t use it. I never thought about it. But I probably don’t. But most people already know what they’re doing wrong. When I get them to church I want to tell them that you can change. There can be a difference in your life. So I don’t go down the road of condemning.
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Read more…
 
Born_Warrior said:
You brought up the point again in the first place. :rolleyes:

So you rehash the point quote me, and instead of responding in this thread you want me to start a new one to rebut you.
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This thread is about Joel Osteen; it is not about salvation. He teaches X, the Bible and Catholic Church say Y. You want to discuss the merits of Y. That is not on topic, and while several Catholics including myself have indulged you before, we already have a mod warning in this thread and any further derailing may result in its closure. Then you will have to start your own thread, so why not do it now?
 
You know, I just don’t listen to non-Catholic preachers, speakers anymore…at BEST they can only speak of partial truth AND I would have to run everything through the truth test. I spent so many years hearing error before I came to the Church. I now figure by the time I have listened to podcasts, done my Bible study preparation, listened to anything good on EWTN and be online here…(PLUS I need to go for more walks and get to the gym some)…well by that time day is done!

You know who I’d listen to anytime anywhere, Scott Hahn, Cavins, Sri, Steve Ray, Mother Angelica, Rosalind Moss, Father Corapi, …I’m missing someone I love in this list…thinking thinking…Marcus Grodi…and one more…onthe tip of my tongue…OHHHHHHHHHHHH I LOVE listening to Michael Voris!!! I knew I’d remember, sorry Michael, I’m old and forgetful.

Anyway, by the time I listen to these day is done! 🤷

Jeff Cavins…very interesting to listen to, I hear/see his video at Bible Study on Monday nights on the Bible Timeline…I never want them to end they are so interesting to listen to AND he just teaches so well. Hearing the Word of God preached and taught accurately and completely…is just wonderful. And I can’t find any non-Catholic preacher or teacher who can even come close to that!

Just my 2 cents…
 
Cat_Herder said:
This thread is about Joel Osteen; it is not about salvation. He teaches X, the Bible and Catholic Church say Y. You want to discuss the merits of Y. That is not on topic, and while several Catholics including myself have indulged you before, we already have a mod warning in this thread and any further derailing may result in its closure. Then you will have to start your own thread, so why not do it now?
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Again, you rehashed it. You are saying Joel Osteen does not preach correctly about Salvation, and I disagreed. How is that not on topic? With that logic you were off topic by bringing it up in the first place. Shame on you.:rolleyes:

And who ‘indulged’ me? This is a forum and we are having discussions. A person can chose to respond or not.

1 Samuel 2:3
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for
the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
 
Born_Warrior said:
[personal attack]
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Two words: Ignore List.
Junebug999 said:
You know, I just don’t listen to non-Catholic preachers, speakers anymore…at BEST they can only speak of partial truth AND I would have to run everything through the truth test. I spent so many years hearing error before I came to the Church.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. Anyone who has read the LKL interview can deduce that Osteen doesn’t believe there is such a thing as error.
 
Cat_Herder said:
Two words: Ignore List.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Anyone who has read the LKL interview can deduce that Osteen doesn’t believe there is such a thing as error.
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personal attack!!! Are you serious?
“Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” (Proverbs 26:4-5)

To the Mod. I like this verse, I am not directing it toward anyone.
 
Born_Warrior said:
Jesus died for our sins. All that is asked in return to be saved is that you believe in him. There is no need to ask to be forgiven. What does his sacrifice mean if you then have to be forgiven for a sin you commit?
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That’s really no different than me saying, "to what extent could you possibly “believe in Him” if you continue to sin? You must not have meant your sinners prayer, therefore you’re not really saved. You see the problem we run into?
 
Zooey said:
Which is, by the bye, how*** I*** come to have a dog in this fight, too.

Asked, " Is the Bible inspired?". he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:
Asked, “Are you a Christian?”, he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:
Asked, “Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?”, he answered, “I don’t know”.:eek:

I should think that would be enough to make the point amply clear…
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When and where did he say these things?
 
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