Did You Once Believe in OSAS??

[distracted]

I couldn’t connect singing the song “come, now is the time to worship… come, just as you are before your God” and then being told that I had to wear this or that or don’t wear too much makeup and then seeing others wear a TON… think Tammy Faye.

. Although most Mormons will tell you today that they don’t focus on polygamy, but it is still right there in their book of Doctrine and Covenants.

so what caused you to first consider that Mormonism was wrong? Did your husband point out certain things or what??

mainstream Mormons still have a desire to get to the highest level of Heaven where they will procreate as god’s and godesses. Of course there will be more godesses than gods.

don’t you think Mormonism is kind of obsessed with procreation?? I wonder where that comes from??
I am kind of obsessed with it as well because i probably don’t hae too many (if any ) yrs left… but, well, i was just wondering why they want to make so many people?? is it to make more Mormons?
(that’s what has been said about the Catholics … although nowadays, no one need worry since Catholics don’t seem to have any morechildren than non-C…)…
thanks…

 

[deb1]

Considering that I am a southern gal, I have a lot of experience with OSAS.

The type of OSAS that I was taught was that once you are saved, the Holy Spirit will make a miraculous change immediately in your heart and you will no longer want to sin. I was told that a real Christian would want to go to church every time the door opened, not watch certain movies, listen to anything but Christian music, not drink etc.

Let me say that I have known many, many Christians whose belief in OSAS has led to positive changes in their lives.

But I think that there is a tremendous amount of pressure to prove that one is a Christian among OSASers. For certain personality types believing in OSAS can lead toward some very heavy duty judgementalism because you are always looking for proof that someone else is a Christian.

My former pastor scared me for my poor sister because he didn’t think that Luthereans-my sister’s denomination-were saved.

For myself, I found OSAS very hellish for my mental state. I wanted so badly to be a good Chrisitan but I knew that I wasn’t perfected or anywhere close to being so. Everytime I sinned or felt those little stabs of jealousy, envy or resentment that we all occasionally feel, I wondered if my salvation was real.

I never felt that I could sin with impunity. Actually I felt the opposite. I had tremendous guilt for all my faults because they were possible signs that my salvation had not been real.

Catholicism is different(as is mainstream Protestant thinking). I am not a robot letting the changes occure in me. I am a person who has to work in conjunction with the Holy Spirit’s guidance. For me this knowledge has lifted a weight of doubt off my shoulders.

 

[deb1]

I thought that I would also include this story.

In my sister-in-laws Baptist Church there was a young teenager who came from a abusive family. Her dad was addicted to drugs and beat her alcoholic mother. As a young girl this teen was abused sexually by one of her father’s friends.

My sil took this young girl to church often. The girl wanted to get saved and made a public declaration for Christ in the church.

Yet, because she kept sinning-sleeping with guys etc- the people in the church were convinced that she wasn’t a Christian and that her salvation was false. So, they hammered her to get saved, over and over and over.

No one seemed to realize that this girl needed HUMANS to teach her how to be a good Christian or change her life. They wanted immediate results.

I still pray for that young girl but I am uncertain what happened to her.

 

[distracted]

. I was told that a real Christian would want to go to church every time the door opened, not watch certain movies, listen to anything but Christian music, not drink etc.

Well, yeah, but only fanatical Catholics hate all that stuff…

. For certain personality types believing in OSAS can lead toward some very heavy duty judgementalism because you are always looking for proof that someone else is a Christian.

Actually, it makes a certain kind of sense… We should be on the lookout for hypocracy… because , for one thing, I have been fooled many times by those who said they were Christian but really weren’t (My assessment)… I mean, you have to be discerning in friendships… because many pretend to be Christian… just because they know you are one… and then, well, i have gotten “ripped off” before… so to say…

For myself, I found OSAS very hellish for my mental state. I wanted so badly to be a good Chrisitan but I knew that I wasn’t perfected or anywhere close to being so. Everytime I sinned or felt those little stabs of jealousy, envy or resentment that we all occasionally feel, I wondered if my salvation was real.

That’s interesting… You would thinik OSAS would give you strong sense of security…

I never felt that I could sin with impunity. Actually I felt the opposite. I had tremendous guilt for all my faults because they were possible signs that my salvation had not been real.

hmm… I say i once believed in OSAS but i never believedthis aspect of it… I think i believed it so much that i never even questioned my salvation… until i started praying the rosary… Then i didn’t so much question my salvation as question whether i would EVER get out of Purgatory… !!

I am a person who has to work in conjunction with the Holy Spirit’s guidance. For me this knowledge has lifted a weight of doubt off my shoulders.

Yes, me too… I am just now thinking of something from my past… I guess i did have my moments of wondering if i was “saved”… but it had to do with that whole concept of the unforgivable sin…
Once in awhile, I felt that i must certainly have broken that law about blashpheming the Holy Spirit… because i had often felt God wanted to do one thing but i did something else… I agonized over that… every time i heard that scripture… (but only then, strangely…). The Protestants all seem to have a different interpretation (big surprise) as to what the unforgivable sin is… Some (even Catholics) believe(d) it was suicide…
Even when i was told by a Church person (priest?? can’t recall)… that there is no unforgivable sin but rejecting Christ, i still questioned that… and the Church until i relealized that I had to choose one or the other: Either i believe the Church really is the Church Christ established - & thereefore can be trusted - or i do not… Logic saved the day…

 

[deb1]

Well, yeah, but only fanatical Catholics hate all that stuff…

No, Independent Baptists are amazingly strict.

Actually, it makes a certain kind of sense… We should be on the lookout for hypocracy… because , for one thing, I have been fooled many times by those who said they were Christian but really weren’t (My assessment)… I mean, you have to be discerning in friendships… because many pretend to be Christian… just because they know you are one… and then, well, i have gotten “ripped off” before… so to say…

I understand what you are saying. We need to have discernment to decide if we want to keep company with certain people. But I don’t think that we should judge if they are Christian or not. Perhaps they are just not far enough along in their faith yet to have made more changes in their lives.

I know a man that got out of prison for molesting a child. If he says he is a Christian, I accept that but I don’t invite him to my home or ask him to be around my daughter!

That’s interesting… You would thinik OSAS would give you strong sense of security… hmm… I say i once believed in OSAS but i never believedthis aspect of it… I think i believed it so much that i never even questioned my salvation… until i started praying the rosary… Then i didn’t so much question my salvation as question whether i would EVER get out of Purgatory… !!

I think that a lot of people simply accept what they are told and that might not be bad. I just think things through waa…aay to much.

Yes, I am going to spend a long time in Purgatory but at least if I make it there I am heaven bound.

 

[distracted]

I think that a lot of people simply accept what they are told and that might not be bad.

don’t mean to be argumentative, but i think it is always bad to accept things we are told, without thinking about it…

I just think things through waa…aay to much.

I would almost say you could not think things through too much… but there are exceptions to that rule, of course… If people, for example, thought too much before having children… the human race would have died out by now… which is probably why God made it so only young, naive people can have children…

 

[tundramom]

so what caused you to first consider that Mormonism was wrong? Did your husband point out certain things or what??

Actually it was a Baptist friend online who got me seriously questioning, but there are many instances in my life that I can see where I was being called Home. I posted a “My story” if you want to look at it!

don’t you think Mormonism is kind of obsessed with procreation?? I wonder where that comes from??

It comes from Joseph Smith and his obsession with sex. Seriously.

I am kind of obsessed with it as well because i probably don’t hae too many (if any ) yrs left… but, well, i was just wondering why they want to make so many people?? is it to make more Mormons?
(that’s what has been said about the Catholics … although nowadays, no one need worry since Catholics don’t seem to have any morechildren than non-C…)…
thanks…

Originally, they were encouraged to make more childrens because the “spirit children” needed to be raised in good Mormon homes, etc. I guess thereby making more Mormons…

in Christ
Steph

 

[distracted]

Originally, they were encouraged to make more childrens because the “spirit children” needed to be raised in good Mormon homes, etc. I guess thereby making more Mormons…

in Christ
Steph

actually, i say i would like to have a child(ren) but i have learned that it is a very serioius thing to bring life into the world… that person could end up in Hell… I never thought about that until i was older… but… anyway…
By the way, do Mormons believe in Hell? Who goes there? Those who are un-married?? Yikes, am i in trouble…

 

[estesbob]

so you never actually committed a particular sin because you felt you were 'saved" anyway and could get away with it??

I counseled for several years in a CPC. I once had a high school couple that were active in their Church and School. They were very religious. However she was pregant. They told me flat out they knew abortion was murder but that they were saved and having the child would cause all sorts of problems with the way people in their Church and School viewed them. We talked for quite a long time and then they left. i have often wondered whether they aborted thir child.

 

[wmscott]

I would like to hear about how OSAS affected your life and how you broke away from it. Thanks.

YES, before I converted. It was one of those main points that is driven home over and over.

 

[distracted]

They told me flat out they knew abortion was murder but that they were saved and having the child would cause all sorts of problems with the way people in their Church and School viewed them. We talked for quite a long time and then they left. i have often wondered whether they aborted thir child.

that is horrible… makes u want to fight OSAS all the more whole-heartedly…

I am curioius… did they act like they were at least considering what you were saying?

Were you an OSAS believer then?

 

[estesbob]

that is horrible… makes u want to fight OSAS all the more whole-heartedly…

I am curioius… did they act like they were at least considering what you were saying?

Were you an OSAS believer then?

No -I am Catholic. They seemed somewhat receptive but its hard to tell. The fact they even came in was encouraging.

 

[brycelaliberte]

I at one time, mostly because that was how I was raised. It was very convenient, allowed me to give into my temptations without worry of losing God.
THEN, I started reading the Bible (still Baptist then) and found too many obvious warnings against believing that.
What really hammered it in was when I broke my CD player, and I realized that was a lot of how grace worked; you were given it even though you don’t deserve it, but you still have to take care of it.

Long story short; my friends who still believe in OSAS still believe I’m saved because I once did. Even though now I don’t makes me not a Christian. Right…

 

[distracted]

I
THEN, I started reading the Bible (still Baptist then) and found too many obvious warnings against believing that.

that’s what is weird about OSAS believers… They often claim to know the Bible but if they really read it as much as they claim, it seems they would be diabused of the OSAS thing…

So are in the right Church now?

 

[Contarini]

that’s what is weird about OSAS believers… They often claim to know the Bible but if they really read it as much as they claim, it seems they would be diabused of the OSAS thing…

No. There are few positions of which this is true. OSAS folks start with certain assumptions about which texts of Scripture should be used to interpret which and how. These assumptions lead them to OSAS. Simply reading the Bible will not necessarily dislodge those assumptions (though I can certainly imagine that it might in some cases, since I entirely agree that the Bible as a whole is not friendly to OSAS). With all due respect, you’re making the same mistake fundamentalist Protestants do. The truth is not simply self-evident based on an individual reading of Scripture in good faith.

Edwin

 

[brycelaliberte]

that’s what is weird about OSAS believers… They often claim to know the Bible but if they really read it as much as they claim, it seems they would be diabused of the OSAS thing…

So are in the right Church now?

 

[distracted]

Simply reading the Bible will not necessarily dislodge those assumptions (though I can certainly imagine that it might in some cases, since I entirely agree that the Bible as a whole is not friendly to OSAS).

i didn’t mean to imply that reading the bible ONLY will always and everywhere change a person’s mind on OSAS… I know all too well how the Word can be misinterpreted… When i was young i read the NT twice through… yet, without being taught, i never really focused on certain passages… and i certainly never saw such things as Purgatory there or other not-so-easily seen concepts…

You know how it is on these forums… we can only get a certain amoutn said… and sometimes my fingers (and brain) get kind of tired…

The truth is not simply self-evident based on an individual reading of Scripture in good faith.

Edwin

True… and i probably should have made such a point… but again, i don’t always have time (or sufficient neuron activity ) to go into a lot of details…

for the record: I don’t believe everything a person needs to know about God and salvation can be atttained from a thorough reading of the bible. (For some reason this **&^% computer doesn’t want me to capitalize Bible)… And trying to make it do so is what gets my fingers and mind weary… :yawn: :hypno:

 

[distracted]

Coming into the right Church. Next Easter.

So now you have to tell us your conversion story.

OK, you dont’ have to but i love conversion stories… I was raised Catholic (more or less ) so it always intrigues me how those outside the “walls” decide to come inside…

This is my story:
Born / baptized Catholic as baby but / not-catechized / filled with Holy Spirit when young, didn’t even know the term “born-again” / happy for 2 yrs, but wasn’t catechized, didn’t even know to seek that , so fell away, gradually, from Jesus / life went from bad to worse to horrible / came back to Jesus / came back to Church / Satan didn’t like it, made life Hell (literally) / kept praying… started daily Mass / life fell apart / got angry @ Church (Long story) / told Satan to take a flying leap, he couldn’t make me leave the Church… / he didn’t appear to be listening… / still isn’t listening… figures if he can’t “have” me, he will at least make me miserable… Which brings me to now… Still Catholic (and crazy) after all these years… (and still kinda angry at the Church too…but that’s another long story… nothing “major”… (??))

 

[deb1]

No. There are few positions of which this is true. OSAS folks start with certain assumptions about which texts of Scripture should be used to interpret which and how. These assumptions lead them to OSAS. Simply reading the Bible will not necessarily dislodge those assumptions (though I can certainly imagine that it might in some cases, since I entirely agree that the Bible as a whole is not friendly to OSAS). With all due respect, you’re making the same mistake fundamentalist Protestants do. The truth is not simply self-evident based on an individual reading of Scripture in good faith.

Edwin

One of my frustrations with OSAS involved reading the conflicting verses and trying to get my Baptist pastor to assist me in understanding how they all related to one another.

He was a very sweet man, but he wouldn’t answer my questions about contrasting verses. He would just point me back to the verses that he felt supported OSAS and refused to discuss anything in the bible that contradicted his beliefs.

I very much wanted to believe in OSAS, so I would have been open to a discussion that explained how all the verses could be true. I never got that explanation.

 

[deb1]

that is horrible… makes u want to fight OSAS all the more whole-heartedly…

I am curioius… did they act like they were at least considering what you were saying?

Were you an OSAS believer then?

For some OSAS believers destroying their understanding of the concept of OSAS would undermine their belief in God. So, I don’t know how you defeat it. I have had Christians tell me that if OSAS doesn’t exists then Christ died for nothing.

Not everyone who believes in OSAS thinks that they are free to sin. What they believe is that the Holy Spirit will create a automatic change in their heart and they will not want to sin or be allowed to sin deeply. Such people often put pressure on themselves to lead morally upright lives, because if they don’t act in a certain manner then they aren’t really a Christian.

Also I have known some OSAS believers who have a very strong faith and love of God.