Did you see the opening mass for WYD?

[JReducation]

Nothing unusual here. Of course they use the OF. The kids more than likely wouldn’t recognize anything else,
Madrid, Spanish,the vernacular of course, a no brainer. We know that everyone is Spain speaks Spanish. But wait, what about those who speak Catalan? Or Basque,or Galician and Aranese? Or the thousands attending who don’t speak Spanish at all Just hyorrible.:tsktsk: Effectively frozen out listening to the Priest speak in a language they don’t understand. Horrible.
Precision rubrics of course. They are on stage for the whole world to see. The closing Mass will undoubtedly be the same. A truer view will be to see some of the Masses throughout the event as WYD Masses have historically, even traditionally, been rife with abuses.
While the Votive Mass for John Paul II may be beautiful, why was it used here? Is there some significance?
Austerity. Why is that important or even relevent? When did God become so irrelevent and unimportant that we as humans cannot offer Him our best? Why have we started to adopt the cold sterile worship called for by Zwingli back in the day.I also wonder why they would face west rather than east since historically the celebrants faced east. Oh wait, that was an old time thing. No longer relevent at all.

My sincere apologies.

BigCat, don’t you think that you’re being unnecessarily hostile?

First of all, let’s clarify, that it is not my intent to cause dissention. It is my intent to share the beauty and richness of Catholic Tradition.

WYD an official outreach ministry to youth, which has become one of the pope’s personal ministries. In my tradition, we support the Holy Father’s ministries, if not by actually being there, then we pray for their success and we encourage others to lend their fraternal, charitable and prayerful support and when possible, financial support as well.

Additionally, the Ordinary Form is used precisely because it is the norm. Canonically, nothing that has the term “extraordinary” is the norm. In an event that is for the youth of the world, East and West, you use the form of the mass that is normative for the place where it’s being celebrated. WYD is not just for the Latin Church. There are young people, clergy and religious there from all 23 Catholic Churches. That’s part of what makes it so beautiful. It is one of the few events when young people form all 23 Churches come together as Catholics.

It certainly has had a powerful impact on vocations. There are many young men and women who have come out of WYD aware of their call to either the priesthood or the religious life. It is actually a very important event for religious brothers and lay brothers. Since the first WYD, the number of men entering religious communities to become either religious brothers or lay brothers has increased. We believe that one reason is that one of the big events at WYD is the vocation rally. For many Catholics it’s the only time in their lives that they encounter either a religious brother or a lay brother. Most don’t know what they are or the difference between the two.

One of the most beautiful religious communities of brothers in the Americas was inspired by WYD, the Missionaries of the Poor. Today, they have over 200 brothers serving the poorest of the poor in many places, including the USA. It was inspired when the founder took four young men to WYD and they met the Missionaries of Charity Brothers. They wanted to join them, but the MCs did not have houses in the Caribbean. Therefore, they founded a religious community that parallels the Missionaries of Charity Brothers. They have about 20 priests and over 170 religious brothers in about 15 years. The Franciscan Brothers of the Eucharist were inspired by a WYD in Denver, when four men were deeply moved by the all-night adoration led by the Franciscan Sisters of the Eucharist.

As to abuses in the mass, abuses will occur whenever there is an abuser. People who break rules do so because they choose to do so, be it at an EF or OF, a WYD or the Sunday mass.

Austerity can be a very beautiful thing, my friend and it’s part of our Catholic Tradition. In a place such as Spain, where the Carmelite and Franciscan influence are very prominent in the liturgy, austere liturgies were the norm. Remember that for hundreds of years, the Church in Spain was not in the hands of secular priests, but in the hands of friars. Unlike other European nations, these Catholics have a long liturgical tradition that has been influenced by the Carmelites and Franciscans. Most parishes had either the Carmelite Rite or the Franciscan Form. I found it beautiful to see the two reflected in the liturgy today. You are allowed to use certain parts of both in the OF. In the EF you are allowed to use parts of the Franciscan form. Most priests don’t know how to introduce these elements into either the OF or EF, unless they are Franciscan and Carmelite trained. Whoever prepared today’s liturgy knew and did it seamlessly.

Today’s mass had a very strong mystical movement, which is very Carmelite and at the same time, it had the simplicity of the Franciscans. Only the basics necessary for a beautiful mass were present. There was even a little of the Mozarabic influence in the hymns. There were at least two that I could identify as Moorish music, which the Mozarabic Rite uses.

They did have some of the indigenous languages of Spain at the mass. That’s why I said in my original post that they used MOSTLY Spanish. The Spanish people have several indigenous languages, but they all speak Spanish. The Archdiocese of Madrid is the host diocese and it’s in the Province of Castile. WYD always uses the language of the host diocese.

It was a mass filled the Catholic tradition of Spain, which is very rich and the youth of Spain need to see and recover.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

No, what I mean by what is the point, since WYD is celebrated in the OF anyway, why did you list it as below:

Was it to show a reverent ordinary form mass?

OHHHHHHHHHHH, my bad.

I was trying to say that contrary to what many people expect, it was a very reverent mass in the Ordinary Form.

I didn’t understand what you had asked. Sorry.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

OHHHHHHHHHHH, my bad.

I was trying to say that contrary to what many people expect, it was a very reverent mass in the Ordinary Form.

I didn’t understand what you had asked. Sorry.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Ah I see.

I liked the way they chanted the reading. Do you think that is a Spanish “tone”?

 

[JReducation]

Very beautiful, very inspiring.

If I had to have a criticism, it would be a very personal one. All those flowers around the Alter would have been murder on my allergies. :tissues:

I didn’t notice that. I was distracted by the bloody umbrellas everytime the camera would pan out. I would have sneezed my way through the whole thing too, had I been up the jetstream.

I understand the reason for placing the altar on the East. However, evening may not be a good time to do that, if you’re going to celebrate mass outside. It may be a good idea to dispense with that. The sun was bothering the Cardinal. In their attempt to keep it out of his eyes, they were using those umbrellas.

Though, if you’ve ever been to a mass either at the Vatican or at WYD, I been to both, only the folks in the front can actually see those little details. The rest of the people are looking at large screens, because the sanctuary is very far. Those who watch on TV see more details than those who are there. I went to Denver, also to the canonization of St. Maximilian, the Beatification of Mother Teresa and to Bl. John Paul’s mass in Baltimore. I was later informed about details that others caught on TV that we who were there missed. I’ve been to papal masses in St. Peter’s and you can’t see the details either. You’re very far from the sanctuary. I remember being given tickest for a Christmas Midnight Mass in 1999. The Holy Father wanted Franciscans as his special guests, because it was the last Christmas mass of the milenium and it was St. Francis who instituted the creche.

We had tickets for the third row. I was very excited thinking I was going to be up close. It turned out that the third row is about 300 feet away from the sanctuary, because in front are the prelates of the Church followed by the diplomatic corp and their families. You almost need opera glasses to see the facial expressions of the pope as he preaches.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Ah I see.

I liked the way they chanted the reading. Do you think that is a Spanish “tone”?

No. That’s Franciscan chant. Because St. Francis and St. Clare banned Gregorian chant from the mass and the LOTH when the Church began to require chant, this very simple form of chant developed among Franciscans. The melody that they used today is a very ancient one created by the Spanish Franciscan Friars of the Observance (OFM). I’m not sure if I’m using the correct terminology. For those music majors out there, please help with the terms. I think it’s called the melody. It is deliberately very simple to inspire austerity. It goes back to the friars who lived at the time of the Council of Trent.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

No. That’s Franciscan chant. Because St. Francis and St. Clare banned Gregorian chant from the mass and the LOTH when the Church began to require chant, this very simple form of chant developed among Franciscans. The melody that they used today is a very ancient one created by the Spanish Franciscan Friars of the Observance (OFM). I’m not sure if I’m using the correct terminology. For those music majors out there, please help with the terms. I think it’s called the melody. It is deliberately very simple to inspire austerity. It goes back to the friars who lived at the time of the Council of Trent.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I loved it because it’s very melodic.

 

[Bigcat71]

**I found out later that the reason is that Pope Benedict has made him Patron of Youth and World Youth Day. That’s the reason to bring the relic from the Vatican and to use the votive mass ahead of schedule. It was not scheduled to be celebrated until October 22 in the Diocese or Rome, in all the dioceses of Poland and several dioceses in the USA that have asked for permission to do so. They seem to be dioceses with heaven concentration of Polish Catholics.**Fraternally,
JReducation;8254336:

BigCat, don’t you think that you’re being unnecessarily hostile?

First of all, let’s clarify, that it is not my intent to cause dissention. It is my intent to share the beauty and richness of Catholic Tradition.

WYD an official outreach ministry to youth, which has become one of the pope’s personal ministries. In my tradition, we support the Holy Father’s ministries, if not by actually being there, then we pray for their success and we encourage others to lend their fraternal, charitable and prayerful support and when possible, financial support as well.

Additionally, the Ordinary Form is used precisely because it is the norm. Canonically, nothing that has the term “extraordinary” is the norm. In an event that is for the youth of the world, East and West, you use the form of the mass that is normative for the place where it’s being celebrated. WYD is not just for the Latin Church. There are young people, clergy and religious there from all 23 Catholic Churches. That’s part of what makes it so beautiful. It is one of the few events when young people form all 23 Churches come together as Catholics.

It certainly has had a powerful impact on vocations. There are many young men and women who have come out of WYD aware of their call to either the priesthood or the religious life. It is actually a very important event for religious brothers and lay brothers. Since the first WYD, the number of men entering religious communities to become either religious brothers or lay brothers has increased. We believe that one reason is that one of the big events at WYD is the vocation rally. For many Catholics it’s the only time in their lives that they encounter either a religious brother or a lay brother. Most don’t know what they are or the difference between the two.

As to abuses in the mass, abuses will occur whenever there is an abuser. People who break rules do so because they choose to do so, be it at an EF or OF, a WYD or the Sunday mass.

Austerity can be a very beautiful thing, my friend and it’s part of our Catholic Tradition. In a place such as Spain, where the Carmelite and Franciscan influence are very prominent in the liturgy, austere liturgies were the norm. Remember that for hundreds of years, the Church in Spain was not in the hands of secular priests, but in the hands of friars. Unlike other European nations, these Catholics have a long liturgical tradition that has been influenced by the Carmelites and Franciscans. Most parishes had either the Carmelite Rite or the Franciscan Form. I found it beautiful to see the two reflected in the liturgy today. You are allowed to use certain parts of both in the OF. In the EF you are allowed to use parts of the Franciscan form. Most priests don’t know how to introduce these elements into either the OF or EF, unless they are Franciscan and Carmelite trained. Whoever prepared today’s liturgy knew and did it seamlessly.

Today’s mass had a very strong mystical movement, which is very Carmelite and at the same time, it had the simplicity of the Franciscans. Only the basics necessary for a beautiful mass were present. There was even a little of the Mozarabic influence in the hymns. There were at least two that I could identify as Moorish music, which the Mozarabic Rite uses.

They did have some of the indigenous languages of Spain at the mass. That’s why I said in my original post that they used MOSTLY Spanish. The Spanish people have several indigenous languages, but they all speak Spanish. The Archdiocese of Madrid is the host diocese and it’s in the Province of Castile. WYD always uses the language of the host diocese.

It was a mass filled the Catholic tradition of Spain, which is very rich and the youth of Spain need to see and recover.

Br. JR, OSF

Thanks for the clarification on the Mass.I was wondering why they jumped it so far ahead.

Just because I disagree with you doesn’t make me hostile. You should know that Brother.

Sorry but WYD has absolutely nothing to do with Traditional Catholicism. Sharing something about WYD has nothing whatsoever to do with this particular forum. Unless you can show me that these events have existed for a long long time’. Why not post it where it really belongs in the Liturgy and Sacraments section. That is certainly a much better place for it.

As to an increase in vocations I would certainly like to see some documentation that supports that statement’.

As far as abuses in the Mass. I will guarantee you,there will be abuses during some of the Masses celebrated at this event. There always have been, sometimes a lot, which is one reason I really don’t think too highly of WYD

Since you have people from all 23 Catholic Churces at this event, why use only the Roman Rite? Why not use one of the others? They certainly don’t use the Roman Rite in their churches do they?’.

As an aside, austerity can also be very ugly.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Maybe the point is that the Pope chose an OF to make a point. And that some of us shouldn’t get too excited about UE.

I don’t want to speak for our brother cause I know he always means well. This may be seen as proof that our Pope is not inclined towards the EF as some speculate.

I think people should just stop reading too much into everything the Pope says or does. Seriously. I know he’s supposed to be infallible, but not to this degree.

 

[choliks]

Should a “tradition” be hundreds of years old before it becomes church tradition?

 

[JReducation]

I loved it because it’s very melodic.

This is part of this whole area of tradition. This little melody that you liked so much has a history that is very rich. The Franciscans were not allowed to use Gregorian Chant.

Francis taught them to incorporate local music and instruments into their masses, as long as the mass was celebrated with great reverence, but great austerity. There should be no sign of opulence at the mass Even the music has to be very simple.

There was a movement among the friars called The Observants. Today they are called the Franciscan Friars or the Observant Franciscans to tell them apart from the other Franciscans.

The Observants were trying to preserve the letter of the Rule of St. Francis. They wrote created many forms of music for the mass. These forms were taken from the culture around them. In Spain, they developed this form of chant. I believe that it originated in the area of Andalucia. These folks are known for their cheery melodies.

They also chanted from the Carmelite School. There was a beautiful chant called Nada de Turbe (Let Nothing Disturb You). St. Teresa did not write the prayer itself. She found it and used it. She did write the melody for it. The Discalced Carmelites made it part of their liturgy. Remember, the Carmelites have their own rite. They took in from different cultures. This particular melody came from a town called Medina del Campo, where Teresa composed it.

I was truly fascinated by the little pieces that reflected Spanish Catholic tradition. Even the French that was used was not the Parisian French. It was the French used in northern Spain, spoken in the Pyranees by French and Spaniards. It has a cadence of its own and some differences in vocabulary. Then it dawned on me that it’s a form of French spoken more in the South of France. I speak French and I did not understand the reading. I had to follow the English translation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[At_Trent]

I think people should just stop reading too much into everything the Pope says or does. Seriously. I know he’s supposed to be infallible, but not to this degree.

“Oh yea ?”
http://www.esquire.com/cm/esquire/images/pope-pius-v-0907-lg.jpg

 

[JReducation]

I have received four very ugly PMs because of this post. One blatantly accuses me of being anti-Traditionalist and being a heretic. However, I believe that these reactions come from a narrow understanding of Tradition and Traditionalism.

If we narrow Tradition and Traditionalism to the form of the mass, a specific catechism or everything that came before Vatican II, we lose a great deal, just as we lose a great deal if we limit Tradition to everything from Vatican II forward. The former mindset, sets the death of the Church in 1962 and the latter proclaims 1962 to be the Church’s birthday. Both are wrong.

One has to learn to look at events such as this with a view of tradition. As I have said in previous posts, there is a lot of tradition here. This is Spain. Spain has an ancient and noble Catholic history. When I watched the mass, earlier today, I started to notice certain details that I thought the average person would not notice or would not jump out at him or her, unless he has done some formal studying of Church history, Christian Spirituality, Spanish Mysticism and Spanish Catholicism and the history of the Mendicant Movement and its influence in Spain, Portugal and Italy, where it saved the Church from the abyss.

As I watched, my antennae went up when I heard the Kyrie and Gospel being chanted in a melody that was used created by the Franciscans of the 16th century. Then I heard a prayer that was put to music by St. Teresa of Avila being sung in the same melody that she wrote, which has been handed down by the Discalced Carmelites from generation to generation to this day. There were several hymns that were borrowed from the Mozarabic Rite which exists only in Spain. They are very recognizable, because of their Moorish roots. Many of the Mozarabic Catholics were Arabs who had lived in Spain for centuries. They date back to the 7th century, slightly younger than our Gregorian chant.

The Gloria was an interesting musical masterpiece. It is the Gloria as it appears in the Roman Missal, but sung to Basque rhythm, which is not new to Catholicism. No one really knows where the Basque people came from, including them. There are many theories. When the scripture was proclaimed in French and I realized that it was Provencal French, spoken many centuries ago. Today, it is spoken in the Southwestern part of France and the Pyrenees along the border with Spain. It is a form of French that is common to the Spanish and French of that region and which has been in use in Spanish liturgy for centuries. Even when everything was in Latin, Franciscans in Spain had a custom of proclaiming the scriptures in this language, because it was the mother tongue of Francis of Assisi. He spoke Provencal fluently, before he learned to speak Italian. His baptismal name was Giovanni, but he was always known as “Frenchy” because of his use of Provencal. Some of the prayers that he wrote are in Provencal.

What I saw was a lot of history and tradition pulled together in a beautiful way that should speak to the heart and mind of the Traditionalist and the not so Traditionalist. It shows that Tradition is actually much more than what we think. A country such as Spain, which has such a rich Catholic history, also has a rich blend of cultures, languages, and forms of sacred worship.

Then there is the concept of WYD itself. It is not a new concept. Bl. John Paul got the idea when in 1976 he was still a Cardinal and he was asked to attend the Chapter of Mats of the Franciscan Youth, which dates back to 1223 when Francis instituted it. The Chapter of Mats calls out to Franciscan Youth from around the world to gather in one place to celebrate Franciscan life. St. Benedict also commanded the monks of the monasteries attached to Subiaco, the original Benedictine foundations, to attend to the youth and to welcome them as pilgrims. Hence the concept of youth pilgrimages, which dates back to the 6th century.

Somewhere along the line, these youth pilgrimages were lost. Only the Franciscan Chapter of Mats survived which includes about 1500 delegates representing Franciscan youth around the world. Originally, it was not a delegation, but all the young Franciscans who went to Assisi. Francis borrowed the idea from the Benedictines of Subiaco, who were his friends.

Bl. John Paul, having been in youth ministry for many decades, was very excited to find that this custom had not faded. It had been simplified, because of the large numbers of Franciscan youth and the problems created by ward, borders and travel. He decided that the Church needed to reach out to the young; but that he would do it by going out to meet them in a neutral place outside of the Vatican. He added a little of himself. Instead of the young pilgrims going to him, as they did when they went to Subiaco and to Assisi, the pope goes out to them. He creates a modern event that is deeply rooted in two very important Catholic traditions, the Benedictine ministry to pilgrim youth and the Franciscan tradition of the Chapter of Mats.

I thought that this would be something exciting to people who love tradition, to see the re-emergence of some very classic traditions, as have been present in Spain for centuries and in the major religious movements that have served the Church. It’s great to see them displayed for the young, especially in Europe, where the young have lost touch with Christ and with their own Christian history. There were Carmelite, Franciscans, Provencal, Mozarabic and Latin influences in the mass and all of them are very much a part of Catholic Tradition. They have been around for centuries.

I think we have to broaden our vista of what constitutes Catholic Tradition. We will find that it is as St. Teresa says, “Castle with many chambers leading to His Majesty’s throne room.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ClayPots47]

Hmmmm…The OP of this thread appears to be posted incorrectly, as this subject has nothing to do with the Traditional Catholic section that it is currently posted in.

{Lucy Van Pelt voice (like when Snoopy kisses her)] Wrong forum! Wrong forum! Alert the mods! Alert the Mods! {/Lucy Van Pelt voice] :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes:
Snoopy goes, “Bleh!”, Charlie Brown sighs, “Good Grief!” :yawn:

Why don’t the “Wrong Forum Police” just refrain from posting that it is the wrong forum, and simply PM the moderator on duty, and let the moderator handling it? Telling the OP it’s the wrong forum serves no purpose, and it sure as heck doesn’t get it moved to the correct one.

Anywhoo, I believe Brother JR explained why it fits here. Though I see many others, traditional Franciscan and Carmelite spirituality, traditional Spanish music, etc These are things that are rooted in Traditional Catholicism, are they not?

 

[archangel04]

Hmmmm…The OP of this thread appears to be posted incorrectly, as this subject has nothing to do with the Traditional Catholic section that it is currently posted in.

Nothing unusual here. Of course they use the OF. The kids more than likely wouldn’t recognize anything else,
Madrid, Spanish,the vernacular of course, a no brainer. We know that everyone is Spain speaks Spanish. But wait, what about those who speak Catalan? Or Basque,or Galician and Aranese? Or the thousands attending who don’t speak Spanish at all Just hyorrible.:tsktsk: Effectively frozen out listening to the Priest speak in a language they don’t understand. Horrible.
Precision rubrics of course. They are on stage for the whole world to see. The closing Mass will undoubtedly be the same. A truer view will be to see some of the Masses throughout the event as WYD Masses have historically, even traditionally, been rife with abuses.
While the Votive Mass for John Paul II may be beautiful, why was it used here? Is there some significance?
Austerity. Why is that important or even relevent? When did God become so irrelevent and unimportant that we as humans cannot offer Him our best? Why have we started to adopt the cold sterile worship called for by Zwingli back in the day.I also wonder why they would face west rather than east since historically the celebrants faced east. Oh wait, that was an old time thing. No longer relevent at all.

My sincere apologies.

Folks need to be careful not to disrestpect Br. JR he is a Franciscan brother and a very good one. We are lucky to have on on these boards. I am as traditional as they come for someone in his 20s but I wont sit by and see people disrespect Br. JR or other religious on this board.

 

[MarkThompson]

As to an increase in vocations I would certainly like to see some documentation that supports that statement’.

You’re in luck, Biggie!

Catholic News Agency: Two years after World Youth Day, Sydney sees upsurge in vocations and ordinations.

 

[archangel04]

Br. JR sorry to hear about the nasty email. Please know there are many of us “traditionalist” that appreciate your work on here.

 

[ClayPots47]

No. That’s Franciscan chant. Because St. Francis and St. Clare banned Gregorian chant from the mass and the LOTH when the Church began to require chant, this very simple form of chant developed among Franciscans. The melody that they used today is a very ancient one created by the Spanish Franciscan Friars of the Observance (OFM). I’m not sure if I’m using the correct terminology. For those music majors out there, please help with the terms. I think it’s called the melody. It is deliberately very simple to inspire austerity. It goes back to the friars who lived at the time of the Council of Trent.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Not a music major, just music educated and can both read and write it. Melody is the correct word. The notes on the music sheet form the melody, while the words below are the lyrics. The melody may be using one of the ancient modes, rather than the modern major and minor scales we use today. Many of the modes have fallen out of use, some musicians, especially those in the folk and world music genre’s, compose melodies using ancient modes, or use existing ones with new lyrics. Bob Dylan was one musician who did this, Paul Simon would be another. Some of the most beautiful and haunting melodies come from one of the ancient modes. Other modes can be very simple and austere. And yet others can evoke an aura of mystery. These music traditions are something today’s youth are rarely exposed to, being that more schools are removing music education from their curriculum. The Church is rich in ancient music that makes use of these ancient modes. This is great news, to hear that these musical traditions are being incorporated into WYD and the liturgy. What an enriching experience for those attending. :clapping:

 

[JReducation]

You’re in luck, Biggie!

Catholic News Agency: Two years after World Youth Day, Sydney sees upsurge in vocations and ordinations.

That’s Sydney and in the USA it’s an increase in the number of religious brothers and lay brothers. Their numbers are growing faster than priests.

The Missionaries of the Poor, founded in Kingston, Jamaica came out of WYD. They started with two or three guys 15 years ago. Today, they are around 200 or few more and only 20 are priests.

In my community, we just received eight postulants this month and 12 entered novitiate. No one is going to be ordained. In our community, this is a little different, because it is the superior who decides whether there is a need for priests or not. Right now, we don’t need any. We only ordain as many as we need for our internal needs.

If you look at communities such as the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal, Sisters of Life, Dominican Sisters of Mary, Poor Clare Nuns, they are all getting vocations from the WYD generation, also known as the JP II Generation. These kids tell you that Bl. John Paul is their inspiration to enter religious life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[MarkThompson]

That’s Sydney and in the USA it’s an increase in the number of religious brothers and lay brothers. Their numbers are growing faster than priests.

Yes indeed, Brother. This article quotes His Excellency Archbishop Joseph W. Tobin, secretary of the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life:
As for claims that World Youth Day is a seedbed for vocations, “I admit I was a little skeptical some years ago about whether it was a flash in the pan, and how do you carry it forth with some energy,” he said. But studies have shown that a significant portion of young men and women entering religious life cite the international event as an experience that contributed to their vocations.

 

[ClayPots47]

I have received four very ugly PMs because of this post. One blatantly accuses me of being anti-Traditionalist and being a heretic.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

uch: kpeople: [SIGN]Shame on them![/SIGN]