Dies Irae removed?

[Geremia]

Annibale Bugnini (The Reform of the Liturgy : 1948–1975, (The Liturgical Press, 1990), Chap. 46.II.1, p. 773.) wrote about why the Dies Irae was taken out of the Novus Ordo All Souls’ Day mass:

They got rid of texts that smacked of a negative spirituality inherited from the Middle Ages. Thus they removed such familiar and even beloved texts as the Libera me, Domine, the Dies Iræ, and others that overemphasized judgment, fear, and despair. These they replaced with texts urging Christian hope and arguably giving more effective expression to faith in the resurrection.

This is very unfortunate. I have no idea how the Dies Irae overemphasizes “judgment, fear, and despair.” Despair should never be emphasized, but are not the other two necessary for Catholics to believe or have? Judgment will happen, and fear of God is a gift of the Holy Spirit and also the beginning of wisdom.

Also, why does the Novus Ordo use white vestments for all souls’ day?

Thanks

 

[Adeodatus]

Yeah, “negative spirituality” like the Catholic Faith. Out with anything from the Middle Ages when people actually believed this stuff. Replaced by Protestant Pablum for the Modern, faithless sophisticate. Turn your back on Jesus and give the people a show. What were they thinking?!?!

I went to a Requiem Mass on All Souls. Black vestments, cope, biretta, choir, the works. It was truly uplifting. And the Dies Irae was beautiful.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Annibale Bugnini (The Reform of the Liturgy : 1948–1975, (The Liturgical Press, 1990), Chap. 46.II.1, p. 773.) wrote about why the Dies Irae was taken out of the Novus Ordo All Souls’ Day mass:This is very unfortunate. I have no idea how the Dies Irae overemphasizes “judgment, fear, and despair.” Despair should never be emphasized, but are not the other two necessary for Catholics to believe or have? Judgment will happen, and fear of God is a gift of the Holy Spirit and also the beginning of wisdom.

Also, why does the Novus Ordo use white vestments for all souls’ day?

Thanks

do you see the Church crisis today? that explains

 

[Warrenton]

I think the removal of the dies irae is more sinister, sadly. Many today have this foggy notion of evolution, and they apply it to matters of faith. They do not envision “the end” in the way that they picture “catching the train,” which is to say, a definite moment in time. They like the thought of sliding from more or less evil into more or less good, From more or less dead to more or less alive, with more or less of a body to more or less of a spirit. Their analogy is not the “day of wrath,” but rather the slow and somewhat comfortable process of getting drunk. I can picture the dies irae, when even the saints will tremble, and so can an atheist. All the atheist and I disagree on is whether the vision is true. I can’t even picture what a Bugnini thinks judgment will be like, and if I cannot picture it, I certainly cannot believe it. But I do not think the Bugninis of the world intend anybody to believe.

 

[Adeodatus]

Interesting thought, Warrenton. It would probably be a mistake to underestimate the influence of Teilhard de Chardin on a lot of these people. In addition to being a heretical theologian, Teilhard was involved in the Piltdown Man and Peking Man hoaxes. I do not allege that he knowingly deceived anyone regarding those hoaxes… I don’t know what was in his mind or heart.

 

[Holly3278]

Yeah, “negative spirituality” like the Catholic Faith. Out with anything from the Middle Ages when people actually believed this stuff. Replaced by Protestant Pablum for the Modern, faithless sophisticate. Turn your back on Jesus and give the people a show. What were they thinking?!?!

I went to a Requiem Mass on All Souls. Black vestments, cope, biretta, choir, the works. It was truly uplifting. And the Dies Irae was beautiful.

Well, thankfully the more traditional parts of Catholicism are in revival now!

That said, I really don’t know much about the topic at hand so I can’t comment on it.

 

[laszlo]

do you see the Church crisis today? that explains

This is superstition. Rites are not so powerfull that they could make the crisis, in which the whole word is now. The crisis started in the enlightenment and the overall change of the life accelerated it.

Anyone must face that 100 years ago the Church was the main entertainment for Sunday. Not the slight change on the liturgy by the New rite for the Mass caused that today the Mass is obligation not the entertainment.

Anyone had to know that 100 years ago God, the religion and moral was inherent part of the public education for the majority, starting with regular prayer in the schools. No one with sound midn can say that Bugnini was the main force to change this.

Bugnini and the in itself slight change in the liturgy is a decoy to hide the real enemy, and thus prevent the true resolution: back to centering our life on God and not on earthly things.

 

[Bbigam]

Annibale Bugnini (The Reform of the Liturgy : 1948–1975, (The Liturgical Press, 1990), Chap. 46.II.1, p. 773.) wrote about why the Dies Irae was taken out of the Novus Ordo All Souls’ Day mass:This is very unfortunate. I have no idea how the Dies Irae overemphasizes “judgment, fear, and despair.” Despair should never be emphasized, but are not the other two necessary for Catholics to believe or have? Judgment will happen, and fear of God is a gift of the Holy Spirit and also the beginning of wisdom.

Also, why does the Novus Ordo use white vestments for all souls’ day?

Thanks

I think it’s a very sad and unfortunate thing that the Dies Irae was removed from the Requiem Mass; in fact, the modern Requiem Mass barely resembles the traditional one. The Requiem æternam prayer itself has been excised, except as an option for the Introit (and even then not for All Souls). The same is pretty much true of the Office for the Dead - No Requiem æternam at all. However, it is now an option to use the Dies Irae as the hymnody for the Office for the Dead (the traditional office had no hymnody).

I generally attend the Ordinary Form of the Mass, but I think they changed way too much for the Requiem Mass in general. However… black is still an option for vestments - an option our parochial vicar exercised this year for All Souls! Black chasuble and stole, as well as chalice veil and burse.

I don’t know why white and violet are now also options (and much more common than black). Is it taboo to mourn or be sad? I know many places (not my parish!) also treat All Souls like an extra All Saints day, and funerals like canonizations. “For All the Saints” (a hymn I love for, well, All Saints Day) is even in the ICEL English Liturgy of the Hours for the Office of the Dead.

 

[OraLabora]

The Dies Irae has not be re-moved, it has been moved.

It is now the hymn for the Divine Office of the 34th week of Ordinary Time, divided in to parts sung at the Office of Readings (Vigils), Lauds, and Vespers (with some new doxologies added).

I can’t speak of the reasons why it was moved out of the Requiem Mass. My understanding is that the reasons are theological, but I may be wrong.

 

[Janet1983]

I generally attend the Ordinary Form of the Mass, but I think they changed way too much for the Requiem Mass in general. However… black is still an option for vestments - an option our parochial vicar exercised this year for All Souls! Black chasuble and stole, as well as chalice veil and burse.

I don’t know why white and violet are now also options (and much more common than black). Is it taboo to mourn or be sad? I know many places (not my parish!) also treat All Souls like an extra All Saints day, and funerals like canonizations. “For All the Saints” (a hymn I love for, well, All Saints Day) is even in the ICEL English Liturgy of the Hours for the Office of the Dead.

The question is whether or not a black chasuble is available. It is not being used very often, so some parishes might not have one. The parish in my hometown in Germany has one and it is being used. Some time before that I lived at a parish where they simply did not have any and so they used violet instead.
I have never seen white being used instead of black. The only alternative that I have seen apart from violet was a cassock, a rochet and a black stole (but I’ve mostly seen that at the cementary for practical purposes).

 

[Geremia]

I can’t speak of the reasons why it was moved out of the Requiem Mass. My understanding is that the reasons are theological, but I may be wrong.

Read the Bugnini quote. The reason is that judgment and the fact the world will violently end don’t resonate with the mentality of the “modern man.”

 

[Geremia]

It would probably be a mistake to underestimate the influence of Teilhard de Chardin on a lot of these people. In addition to being a heretical theologian

Yes, de Chardin’s evolutionary, “Omega Point,” pantheistic (viz., atheistic) theology is merely Modernism repackaged.

 

[Bbigam]

The question is whether or not a black chasuble is available. It is not being used very often, so some parishes might not have one. The parish in my hometown in Germany has one and it is being used. Some time before that I lived at a parish where they simply did not have any and so they used violet instead.
I have never seen white being used instead of black. The only alternative that I have seen apart from violet was a cassock, a rochet and a black stole (but I’ve mostly seen that at the cementary for practical purposes).

Yeah, we have some old black vestments in the back, two chasuble/stole combos. We also have a nice black cope, and two black chalice veils and burses. Around here it seems to be the norm to wear white for All Souls and funerals, and that’s what our (very faithful and in most other ways traditional) pastor does. Our parochial vicar, when he wore black this week for All Souls, said he had never before used black vestments at all.

I don’t think the cassock/rochet/stole option would be a licit option for a funeral Mass, because a chasuble is required for any celebration of the Mass. The only exception I know of is Mass with a great many concelebrants and too few chasubles to go around (and the main celebrant at least still wears a chasuble).

 

[Janet1983]

Yeah, we have some old black vestments in the back, two chasuble/stole combos. We also have a nice black cope, and two black chalice veils and burses. Around here it seems to be the norm to wear white for All Souls and funerals, and that’s what our (very faithful and in most other ways traditional) pastor does. Our parochial vicar, when he wore black this week for All Souls, said he had never before used black vestments at all.

I don’t think the cassock/rochet/stole option would be a licit option for a funeral Mass, because a chasuble is required for any celebration of the Mass. The only exception I know of is Mass with a great many concelebrants and too few chasubles to go around (and the main celebrant at least still wears a chasuble).

The cassock/rochet/stole option was something that I saw after mass when going to the cemetery. I guess the reason for that was mainly to keep the chasuble inside the church building to keep it fir good, so to speak.
I still have never seen white on All Souls, but then again there might be regional differences since I grew up in Germany (and I know of a couple of other distinct differences that would not be possible in that way in the US).