Dies Irae vs On Angel's Wings - POLL

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PietroPaolo

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I recently came across a great video looking at the history of the Dies Irae, the “Catholic Song of Death,” throughout history (it turns up in Lion King!). This got me thinking (SEE HERE) about how much we’ve lost by losing the Dies Irae as an essential part of a funeral Mass. If we still have a “Catholic Song of Death” these days, I suppose it must be On Angel’s Wings, which has an entirely different theology behind it. I don’t dislike On Angel’s Wings, but I wonder if it ought to have a place in the funeral liturgy (at wakes would be another matter entirely). What do my fellow Catholics think? Should the Dies Irae be returned to its place in all funeral Masses? Should the full Requiem Mass make a return? Should On Angel’s Wings be a permanent replacement? What do you think?
 
I voted return to the full Requiem Mass. Caveat: the Dies Irae is no longer in the OF Requiem Mass. I would respect the Church’s wishes on that.

The Dies Irae is currently in the liturgy as the hymn for Vigils (Office of Readings), Lauds and Vespers in the 34th week of Ordinary Time.
 
OraLabora said:
I voted return to the full Requiem Mass. Caveat: the Dies Irae is no longer in the OF Requiem Mass. I would respect the Church’s wishes on that.

The Dies Irae is currently in the liturgy as the hymn for Vigils (Office of Readings), Lauds and Vespers in the 34th week of Ordinary Time.
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The question is whether is should be returned to its former place in the Requiem Mass. I, while respecting the Church’s authority to remove it, think it ought to be returned.
 
PietroPaolo said:
The question is whether is should be returned to its former place in the Requiem Mass. I, while respecting the Church’s authority to remove it, think it ought to be returned.
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I think the current Catholic Requiem Mass in Gregorian chant is quite beautiful even without the Dies Irae. But I do like the Dies Irae.

Personally, getting it back into the funeral liturgy, I don’t think that dog will hunt.

But an individual can request it. Our schola does funerals. We did it once in the liturgy (I was not responsible for following the rubrics…I just sang along) as it was in the deceased’s final wishes, but if you are having someone trained in chant leading the singing at a funeral, you could always ask for it as an exit hymn after the final blessing. That would be perfectly licit as it is outside the liturgy of the Mass.

I believe we should pick our battles; getting a decent choir and getting to sing the Dies Irae after the final blessing is a battle that is possible to win. Getting the Vatican to restore the Dies Irae to the liturgy is one that probably isn’t.
 
I think the Dies Irae can still be said in the Office of the Dead? And on the last week in Ordinary Time. Thats something atleast.
 
The Dies Irae can be used as a hymn in the funeral Mass. There’s no reason why that hymn cannot be chosen instead of any other hymn.

However, it cannot be used as it was before, as a Gospel Sequence.
 
Could you explain what “On Angels’ Wings” is? Is it the song that they use to replace “In Paradisum” with? Or similar to "On Eagles’ Wings?
 
PietroPaolo said:
I recently came across a great video looking at the history of the Dies Irae, the “Catholic Song of Death,” throughout history (it turns up in Lion King!). This got me thinking (SEE HERE) about how much we’ve lost by losing the Dies Irae as an essential part of a funeral Mass. If we still have a “Catholic Song of Death” these days, I suppose it must be On Angel’s Wings, which has an entirely different theology behind it. I don’t dislike On Angel’s Wings, but I wonder if it ought to have a place in the funeral liturgy (at wakes would be another matter entirely). What do my fellow Catholics think? Should the Dies Irae be returned to its place in all funeral Masses? Should the full Requiem Mass make a return? Should On Angel’s Wings be a permanent replacement? What do you think?
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I do believe the song you are referring to as “On Angels’ Wings” is actually “On Eagles’s Wings” and I believe was originally written for a funeral by Michael Joncas.
 
I vote for neither.
We use In Paradisum. Very beautiful and “chant-like”. Any accomplished cantor can pull it off beautifully.
May the Angels lead You…
 
The words to Dies Irae are so beautiful and poignant. An absolute contrast to the secular world which would rather go back (in time) to when the deceased was alive and say words in praise of them in their eulogy. Why does society have such a hard time going forward instead - to the judgment and new life. THAT ultimate reality is why we were made.

Here are the first few stanzas in English:

How great a tremor is to be,
when the judge is to come
briskly shattering every (grave).

A trumpet sounding an astonishing sound
through the tombs of the region
drives all (men) before the throne.

Death will be stunned and (so) will Nature,
when arises (man) the creature
responding to the One judging.

The written book will be brought forth,
in which the whole (record of evidence) is contained
whence the world is to be judged.

Therefore when the Judge shall sit,
whatever lay hidden will appear;
nothing unavenged will remain.

O Thou, God of Majesty,
nourishing brilliance of the Trinity,
join us with the Blessed.

What am I the wretch then to say?
what patron I to beseech?
when scarcely the just (man) be secure.

The words are majestic and speak our faith to us; the insipid “On Eagle’s Wings” cannot begin to compare.
 
CB_Catholic said:
I do believe the song you are referring to as “On Angels’ Wings” is actually “On Eagles’s Wings” and I believe was originally written for a funeral by Michael Joncas.
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:o :o :o You’re absolutely, 100%, correct. I shouldn’t have written this without an extra cup of morning coffee :D. EAGLE’S Wings, not ANGEL’S Wings. :o :o :o
 
Without the last verse, I think Dies Irae might be appropriate for communal confessions as parishes offer during Advent and Lent.
 
Forgot to mention that in very recent years we’ve added Joncas’ “In paradisum” for the Song of Farewell.
 
[SIGN]The words are majestic and speak our faith to us; the insipid “On Eagle’s Wings” cannot begin to compare.
[/SIGN]

An intersting comment, as they lyrics of On Eagles Wings are from Psalm 91 and Isaiah 40:31.
 
I am conflicted about Eagle’s Wings. There are forumers who will pop up to say that it is utterly Scriptural and drawn directly from Psalm 91 and Isaiah so how could we go wrong? Indeed I don’t mind singing the words as they are utterly palatable and not objectionable and frankly, good dramatic concrete imagery worthy of a Psalm of David. But the music, the tune, the instruments… ugh! It is all utter schmaltz to me, extremely cheesy! This is one of the first contemporary folk songs I came to hate, because for our eighth grade graduation we were made to sing this and make gestures to go along with the music, whether they were American Sign Language or just something cute, I don’t know, but I was so done with this song by the end of the year. And since it turns up in every funeral of everyone who has ever died since 1980, it’s inescapable. The first two notes are enough to set my teeth on edge.

In planning my own funeral liturgy, sometimes I just want to go the path of least resistance and use Eagle’s Wings and all the lame songs that everyone else uses just to make everyone else happy. After all, this is not a Mass I will have to attend… but another part of me wants to make a statement about who I am and what I stand for, and push for faithfulness to Vatican II, at least that which is possible given the resources of today’s choirs and music directors. I can’t just tell them to chant all the propers and say the whole Mass in Latin, ad orientem. But Fr. David’s suggestion of substituting Dies Irae somewhere is a good one…
 
Overuse of Eagle’s Wings has killed it. Also Be Not Afraid. ick.
Healer of Our Every Ill is not bad, as funeral hymns go.
But not as a recessional. I stick with my original vote.
We used to call Eagle’s the “Yoo-Hoo” song. Like the chocolate soda. Because of the first line
“You who dwell in the shelter of the Lord”
But musicians are wicked that way. We’ll make fun of everything given a chance…:rolleyes:
 
I would definitely agree it is over used. As a musician it’s rare that I play a funeral that it is not requested. I used to like it a lot but now tolerate it. I will give suggestions to move away form it but usually not successful.
 
cspb56 said:
I would definitely agree it is over used. As a musician it’s rare that I play a funeral that it is not requested. I used to like it a lot but now tolerate it. I will give suggestions to move away form it but usually not successful.
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yes. also Amazing Grace. Soooooooooooooooooo tired of this.
Rarely well done, and the words are well, never mind.
Suffice it to say that my good Monsignor forbade it.
The people in the pew (God bless them) have their favorites, and it’s never usually the ones we musicians or the people who work in churches love.
You are Mine is often requested for funerals too, but it doesn’t bug me as much.
 
cspb56 said:
[SIGN]The words are majestic and speak our faith to us; the insipid “On Eagle’s Wings” cannot begin to compare.
[/SIGN]

An intersting comment, as they lyrics of On Eagles Wings are from Psalm 91 and Isaiah 40:31.
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I guess there is no accounting for personal taste, but I find the melody cloying and the lyrics soft-boiled compared to Dies Irae which is the subject of this thread. Apparently I am not alone in my critique.

I’ve never been able to get the “View Single Post” function to work for me, but see this on a related thread, Post #97.
To paraphrase a noted critic, On Eagle’s Wings is a folk style that does not proclaim Psalm 90/91, but embraces the text in a romantic way. Basically, the the real topic of the words is not the comforting of the Lord but of “me” (comforts of my personal faith).
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=12058092#post12058092
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Perhaps this is the noted critic the poster whipp was referring to:

“Certainly no one can object to the Scripture! But sometimes the lyricists adapt rather than cite Scripture, and that gives them leeway for mischief (see “Why Hymns Are at the Bottom of the List” page 15). “On Eagle’s Wings” saps the refreshingly martial confidence of Isaiah 40:31, “they shall mount up with wings as eagles,” leaving us instead the limp and Hallmark-like “* bear you on the breath of dawn.”

And………"No cross, no Christ; no victory over death. Let Narcissus and Narcissa sing all they want; it’s crooning past the graveyard. Only by flinging ourselves away into the death and resurrection of Christ do we become ourselves.”

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8790

I wish I had said this myself. :)*
 
Heavens yes, Amazing Grace is another one over used. There are a few things we have to remember. First we can’t dictate a persons personal preferences in music. What one person dislikes another likes thats just life. Second, I don’t know how many people in this thread are musicians but when you’re dealing with a family who is planning a funeral for a loved one, one has to do so carefully. Again, as I said ,you offer suggestions that might move the family to choose something else but not the time to push an agenda. I have been playing funerals for 37 years and not once has anyone wanted Dies Irae but if they take me up on that suggestion I would be more than happy to accommodate.
 
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