Difference between Mass in Poland and England

[Monte_RCMS]

I’d like to offer a fourth question for your consideration.

How does speculation about the state of grace of entire populations of people hundreds or even thousands of miles away from us serve our own holiness and sanctity?

I think we can all agree that such speculation does nothing for our own holiness. My own opinion is that speculating on such a question presents an opportunity to do much damage. Certainly anxiety over it cannot lead to anything good.

-Tim-

Sorry I cannot be more helpful … but the issue has nothing to the with the people of England or of Poland or of the United States.

It has to do totally with the spiritual disposition of the specific individuals involved at the time they go up to receive Holy Communion.

Are you in the state of grace?

Are you properly disposed to the reception of the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

And that is it.

 

[ProVobis]

That is not the problem, it is the poor catechesis and lack of respect that a lot of Catholics have experienced over the last 20-30 years.

I feel when we had the Baltimore Catechism, we had much better catechesis. Even my Polish-born parents, who had no particular love for English in the U.K. or U.S., nevertheless liked the fact I was taught that particular catechism. And even learned a few things themselves.

 

[Ontheway]

This is NOT TRUE. It depends on the church. Please do not make such sweeping statements when they are very false.

Some churches urge even non-Catholics to go through the communion line and get a blessing - this is not in the GIRM but has been done for years. Those people should not go up but in some churches, most people do go up and get at least a blessing.

My statement about everyone receiving communion each Sunday should have been qualified. I should have said that in MY America, the place where I live and attend church, everyone receives communion every Sunday.
I regularly attend mass at a very large suburban parish where no one ever remains in the pew. Row by row they march up to the front of the church where they received communion from the lay ministers and a priest. It is a rare occasion indeed to see someone remain in the pew.

On occasion I attend another church in the same area and the situation is identical. The difference is that there is a small Latino population there and from time to time some of them do not go to receive communion.

Over the years I have attended two or three other churches on a regular basis and find this to be the generally the case. Abstaining from communion is a rare exception in the churches I know well.
There are many churches and communities and perhaps some do not follow the pattern I describe.

 

[TimothyH]

Sorry I cannot be more helpful … but the issue has nothing to the with the people of England or of Poland or of the United States.

It has to do totally with the spiritual disposition of the specific individuals involved at the time they go up to receive Holy Communion.

Are you in the state of grace?

Are you properly disposed to the reception of the Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

And that is it.

With all due respect, my state of grace isn’t anyone elses business, though I did appreciate it a few weeks ago when a close friend saw that I did not recieve and asked if I was OK, if I needed to talk or if there was anything he could do. It was a really nice guesture from a close friend.

So my question still stands. How does my speculation about the state of grace of anyone other than myself except possibly my children or my spouse, serve my own holiness? How does your speculation about my state of grace serve your holiness? The clear answer is that it doesn’t. It is idle speculation at best, and possibly arrogance.

God has not placed us in a position of authority over the spiritual health of anyone other than ourselves, and possibly our spouse and children. To assume that we have the role of overseeing the spiritual health of others is to assume that we have authority which we do not - arrogance. I’m not accusing anyone of this, just making a statement that idle spectulation can lead to arrogance when we start to worry about it and decide to take action on something which we have no authority over.

There is prudent fraternal concern for those we love, our friends and members of our parish, but that is best brought up in private.

-Tim-

 

[Lucius_Marius]

Normally people who might not be in the state of grace would remain in the pews … and often people went up for Communion separately, with husband watching the kids while the wife went and then when the wife returned, she would watch the kids while the husband went up for Holy Communion.

This is how it still works in the Polish church… people go at their own time (often a bit chaotic) and kneel before the altar, waiting for the priest.

My brothers and sisters, I hope you do not think my speculation arrogant. I do not want to say anything about individuals’ state of grace… I have no right nor reason to do so. But it is a question that is interesting to me, and I have a choice either to ask it here, or to struggle with it in my head alone… when one sees such a difference in practice it’s hard not to think about the underlaying reasons for this.

 

[ProVobis]

This is how it still works in the Polish church… people go at their own time (often a bit chaotic) and kneel before the altar, waiting for the priest.

My brothers and sisters, I hope you do not think my speculation arrogant. I do not want to say anything about individuals’ state of grace… I have no right nor reason to do so. But it is a question that is interesting to me, and I have a choice either to ask it here, or to struggle with it in my head alone… when one sees such a difference in practice it’s hard not to think about the underlaying reasons for this.

Not to worry, you’re not the first person who notices such things. It is very bothersome to be given the stare (to say the least) in the English Mass when you don’t approach for communion. I see them as the arrogant (and obnoxious) ones.

 

[michaelmas]

Since you mentioned this I will comment on it, “why go to Mass in a state of mortal sin?”

Because the graces, the word, and the prayers help the sinner to make amends. That is probably not theological correct but for me it brings me back to God.

 

[Lucius_Marius]

I certainly agree, friend. One should not miss out on the blessing of the Mass just because one is not able to participate fully. When we are in the state of mortal sin is the time we need all the help we can get… surely to close yourself off from the Mass is the one thing one should precisely not do at such moment.