Difference between 'nothing' and a 'vacuum'

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Premise:

God creates from absolute nothingless.

Comment:

“God creates” = He is the cause.

Cause (in this case) = an act of the will.

Knowing what we know of “will” ( God’s ), this is an act that can be performed eternally, without any “depletion” in any way, shape, form, or manner of God’s existence.

St. T. A. was quoted as saying:

“I have not seen a proof that God cannot create an infinite number of beings!”
 
Absolutely.

There is a real unicity between logic and God’s essence. Saying God can do irrational thing’s is violating the law of noncontradiction.
Do you think there is anything irrational in the following:

"Power is the intrinsic energy of being realized in activity. The Blessed Trinity, infinite in the immanence of its life, is the perfect self-realization of Power. In one omnipotent and eternal experience all powers of being, both absolute and relative, are completely actualized without the possibility of increase or diminution. Omnipotence suffuses all the Divine attributes, and is identical with the Godhood of God. It represents for us the dynamic aspect of the triune life of the divine essence, wherein the fecundity of the one subsistent nature expresses, manifests, and comprehends its own meaning and value, and all things within that fullness.

Omnipotence involves every possible mode of origination and production, and is thus more than the power of causation whereby things other than itself are brought into existence. The eternal origination or procession of the Son and the Holy Ghost is omnipotent life; but it is not causal activity, inasmuch as the persons are identical with the one divine nature. They are not additions to its life, they are its life. The three persons are self-expressions and self-realizations of life, knowledge, love, and sanctity which constitute the very being of Deity. Thus subsistence is power, knowledge is power, will and eternity are power, all infinitely one. Omnipotence is distinctive of Deity, and creation is but a revelation of it in the order of finite being.

Hence our idea of supreme power is but a distant analogy of that almightiness which characterizes the ultimate being. Power in creatures passes from a state of potential capability to the actual performance of an act. But Omnipotence is the subsistent energy of eternal being, and is not transient but immanent and permanent in its infinite actuality.

Creation to us is but an aspect of an eternal activity. The statement of Genesis that God “rested” on the seventh day is metaphorical of the eternal contentment of God in the knowledge of all things in himself. In regard to the universe his activity has neither beginning nor end, and involves no change. Creation is not a local transference from God to the creature, nor is the creature a terminus of his power. The motive of that power is not the creature itself but God’s knowledge of his own being. Apart from God’s power the creature has no existence, and therefore cannot be regarded as an object antecedent to his production of it. Nor can the creature ever become an “object” reacting upon God in the sense in which objects react upon us. Likewise the continuance of the creative act in the conservation of and concurrence with creatures involves no new or different activity in Omnipotence.

The contingency of the universe reveals the fact that it was created by Omnipotence. The dependence of finite beings upon God is not accidental or partial but total, involving their entire reality. Thus contingent mind and matter are essentially and qualitatively different from subsistent Being. They cannot therefore be regarded as natural emanations from the Divine Nature or as participating in its distinctive life. This complete distinctness of God and finite being implies that the universe was produced in no way other than creation in the full meaning of that term. For it is clear that creation is the only mode of causation whereby a cause can produce other being entirely distinct from itself.

It is evident, too, that creation is within the competence of Omnipotence alone. The universe, which is the product of the Creator, is indeed finite, but no power less than infinite could have produced it. Finite being cannot create; its activities presuppose already existing material upon which to operate. Not being subsistent, finite being cannot even maintain itself in being, and does not control its own existence. It follows, therefore, that finite being cannot create other finite being, as that would be equivalent to causing being equal to itself. The origination of being therefore requires a productive energy which is positively infinite. Subsistent being alone can create the finite, and the gift of grace which perfects nature and forgives sins by creative regeneration is likewise possible to Deity alone.

Thus all modes of created being, whether natural or supernatural, normal or miraculous, are finite evidences of that power, wisdom, and mercy which is triune Omnipotence."

God bless,
jd
 
The misapplication of what God can or cannot do starts with one’s understanding of the word POSSIBLE. God can only do what is POSSIBLE. For some that means there is absolutely nothing impossible for God even if that be totally absurd and contradictory. Suggesting that God has any limitations diminishes God’s Omnipotence for some who have yet to grasp the full meaning and implications of the word POSSIBLE. God can do anything? Yes, for those who do not understand the word POSSIBLE and its counterpart IMPOSSIBLE due to the limitation of REALITY.
Good analysis, but, I have a little, tiny problem with it. You assume that man, or, you, if not men in general, have the capability of discerning the essence of what is POSSIBLE. All men can really do is Hope that we have it right, and, have Faith in God, that we have it right. As you have no doubt noticed, the verisimilitude of a great many syllogisms, on this Forum, don’t. If so many, even Catholic brethren, can get it wrong it would seem to show that even the well-intentioned may not get cigars.

I am always amazed that Aquinas has peered through so much of the veil of cloudiness that surrounds men’s knowledge to bring us logic that is very powerful and in keeping with the Catholic Church.

God bless,
jd
 
“will” = to decide.

Even humans can see “deciding” being an act which doesn’t do anything to the one deciding.

How much more so is this of God!
 
combining my #301 and #304:

Premise:

God creates from absolute nothingless.

Comment:

“God creates” = He is the cause.

Cause (in this case) = an act of the will (God’s).

will = to decide.

Even humans can see “deciding” being an act which doesn’t do anything to the one deciding.

How much more so is this of God!

Thus God’s act of will (creating) is performed eternally, without any “effect” in any way, shape, form, or manner of God’s existence.

St. T. A. was quoted as saying:

“I have not seen a proof that God cannot create an infinite number of beings!”
 
Question to you, Jerry:

If creation (especially us!) has no effect on God, (besides the humility such knowledge instills in us) why does God create at all?

Answer: The one St. T.A. gives: Because God is good!
 
Good analysis, but, I have a little, tiny problem with it. You assume that man, or, you, if not men in general, have the capability of discerning the essence of what is POSSIBLE.
jd
Its not an assumption, logic is evidently and naturally an expression of subsistent “being”, and subsistent “being” naturally dictates to us that certain things can’t happen under any condition. We can choose to respect that or ignore it.
 
“There is no such thing as an infinite number of beings.”

misread? He said he knows of no proof that God COULD NOT, not that He (God) did.

or Are you saying God cannot comprehend an “infinite number of beings”?

Sincerely,
JV
 
Its not an assumption, logic is evidently and naturally an expression of subsistent “being”, and subsistent “being” naturally dictates to us that certain things can’t happen under any condition. We can choose to respect that or ignore it.
If that is the case, then, providing we all are in God’s best graces, we should all be recipients of that fullest expression of the Ultimate Power of Logic, beyond even what God has told us through revelation. In other words, WE should all be in Perfect Agreement!

God bless,
jd
 
“There is no such thing as an infinite number of beings.”

misread? He said he knows of no proof that God COULD NOT, not that He (God) did.

or Are you saying God cannot comprehend an “infinite number of beings”?

Sincerely,
JV
It depends what you mean by an infinite number. Gods mind and being is timelessly and necessarily present to all potentially infinite events, insofar as they will become events. But I don’t believe that there is actual infinite in the sense that can be defined by a “quantity”.
 
“Gods mind and being is timelessly and necessarily present to all potentially infinite events, insofar as they will become events.”

“present to all potentially infinite events”???

There is no potential in God.

" But I don’t believe that there is actual infinite in the sense that can be defined by a “quantity”. "

God can not be defined. (at least not in this life)
 
Do you think there is anything irrational in the following:
I am afraid I must say yes.
The eternal origination or procession of the Son and the Holy Ghost is omnipotent life; but it is not causal activity, inasmuch as the persons are identical with the one divine nature. They are not additions to its life, they are its life. The three persons are self-expressions and self-realizations of life, knowledge, love, and sanctity which constitute the very being of Deity.
It is correct that the agent’s of the trinity are distinct by form and not by any real disunity.
Hence our idea of supreme power is but a distant analogy of that almightiness which characterizes the ultimate being.
However; analagorical predication prevents the emergence or use of any practical theology. For any sensible conception of God the unicity of agencies both finite and infinite must be univocal and not equivocal or analagorical.
It is evident, too, that creation is within the competence of Omnipotence alone. The universe, which is the product of the Creator, is indeed finite, but no power less than infinite could have produced it.
If a potency can be reduced or confined to elements only finite; it cannot be said that there is a certainty about that potencies infinite nature. Whilst I believe that God is infinite in power; it is not possible to demonstrate this; as even ex nihilo creation only demonstrates per se itself and no capacity beyond it. In the same way as a material infinite cannot be composed by addition or quality; it cannot be said that we can view a transcendental infinite through modes such as finite conception. Thus it can only be believed that God is omnipotent; and not known.
Thus all modes of created being, whether natural or supernatural, normal or miraculous, are finite evidences of that power, wisdom, and mercy which is triune Omnipotence.
This too begs the question. All modes of finitude merely demonstrate through their predication of contingency that an agency outside the totality of contingency and prior to it’s prior consitutant exists – which is nessecary and of creative potency. This can be known; but omnipotence cannot be known.
 
or Are you saying God cannot comprehend an “infinite number of beings”?
This is equivocal. Infinity is not a number. There cannot be an infinite number of anything; as infinity merly exists as a concept.

Therein; God can conceive all that is; but in the same way as God could not conceive a square triangle; he cannot conceive a numerical infinity. These things cannot exist.
 
"Quote:
or Are you saying God cannot comprehend an “infinite number of beings”?

This is equivocal. Infinity is not a number. There cannot be an infinite number of anything; as infinity merly exists as a concept."

“merely exists as a concept”…to us yes!

But St. T. A. is saying he knows of no proof that God can not create beings eternally!
(I guess I got to live with the semantics perpatrated on me)
 
But St. T. A. is saying he knows of no proof that God can not create beings eternally!
Aquinas was correct on this point. There is no reason to believe that God cannot create being’s eternally.

However; eternity is distinct from infinity. In that; infinity transcends finitude; wheras eternity perpetuates it.

This is congruent with the teachings of St Peter Damian (another Doctor of the Church) in De Divina Omnipotentia.

👍
 
why should there be a universe at all? why is there anything? i often hear the continual misinterpretation of quantum virtual particles as a possible explanation for the existence of the universe. people commonly misunderstand that this is more than a theory about the behavior of virtual particles in a vacuum.

people tend to think that a ‘vacuum’ is the same thing as ‘nothing’. its not! a vacuum, even a perfect vacuum, is a dimensionally defined space.

there is no physical reason why anything should exist at all. not even a vacuum. i wonder by what method an atheist may say we came into existence? if there be no physical reason for existence, we shouldn’t be here should we?
Petey:

This continues to be the ultimate question on this Forum. That is precisely why it has persisted. It handles the objections of physics, as well as the objections of ept and inept logicians. It teaches people how to think when pondering such things as “virtual” particles, efficient causation, creation, and omnipotence.

Nothingness is absolute nothingness. There exists not one scintilla of anything that could be called something. It has no defined “space.” It is not even space. There are no “quantum fluctuations” in nothingness - there’s nothing to fluctuate. It is NOT a vacuum. It is not something that exists by itself, or in and of itself. (What would God be if he existed in nothingness for all of infinity?)

Hence, the Question: If there’s no physical reason for existence why is there a universe? But, beyond all potentiality of belief, there is a universe. For no purposes or reasons, without force or consequence, without mistake or error, there exists a universe of physical things and existence itself. None of this should be here. WHY is it here?

God bless,
jd
 
"Quote:
or Are you saying God cannot comprehend an “infinite number of beings”?

This is equivocal. Infinity is not a number. There cannot be an infinite number of anything; as infinity merly exists as a concept."

“merely exists as a concept”…to us yes!

But St. T. A. is saying he knows of no proof that God can not create beings eternally!
(I guess I got to live with the semantics perpatrated on me)
Jerry:

St. Thomas also clearly taught that there is no such thing as an actual infinity. He only admitted that there is such a thing as potential infinity. That is a number, or a quantity, or a mass, or a time, or motion, that continues on forever.

God bless.
jd
 
NOT intended to divert the discussion…but is the following somewhat meaningful and true?

God creates from absolute nothingness.

Only absolute nothingness is impossible to God!
 
NOT intending to divert the discussion…Is the following meaningful and true?

God creates from absolute nothingness.
I am afraid it is meaningless.

To say “God creates from absolute nothingness” presupposes God; which contradicts the latter “absolute nothingness” claim.

So this is a meaningless claim.
Only absolute nothingness is impossible to God
This is true; it is as true as saying “Only absolute nothingness is impossible to this rock” because the presence of the consequent “God” or in the comparrison; “Rock” nessecarily makes the antecedent incorrect.
 
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