Difference between "ransom" and "propitiation"?

[MarcoPolo]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sin

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

(all text from KJV)

 

[bpbasilphx]

They are different ways of saying the same thing.

Christ Jesus is our only Savior.

Let’s put our faith in Him alone, and not in a theory about how He saves us, much less how we verbalize it.

 

[RbM_Lives]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sin

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

(all text from KJV)

Great point of theology there, Polo.

There have been many theories of the Atonement developed throughout Church history.

We were all saved out of sin. Mary was saved fron sin.

RbM

 

[fhansen]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sin

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Mark 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

(all text from KJV)

In current usage, I think many use the term propitiation to mean the satisfaction of a debt owed to God whereas the term ransom has to do with a debt paid to the devil.

 

[RbM_Lives]

In current usage, I think many use the term propitiation to mean the satisfaction of a debt owed to God whereas the term ransom has to do with a debt paid to the devil.

Yes, and hence the protestant doctrine of the limited Atonement. If the death and suffering of Christ constitutes the Atonement, which “pays” for ouf sins in strict justice, who received the payment?

And if it satisifies the debt, and all are not saved, than Christ did not die for all, only the elect.

 

[RbM_Lives]

KING EDWIN JOSEPHUS OF DUTCHINGTON

Once upon a time, there was a great King. Long, long ago, in a land far, far away, King Edwin Josephus of Dutchington ruled over a vast Kingdom that stretched as far as the eye could see, from horizon, to horizon…

Now King Edwin was a very kind and loving King, and could often be found throughout the various townships of Dutchington, mingling with the peasants and common folk, fellowshipping with them and listening to their concerns with great care and pity. All of his loyal subjects loved their kind King. With such grateful affection they would shower him with gifts and kisses as he would pass their way; so appreciative of his compassionate ruler-ship. King Edwin, truly, was a very wise and benevolent King.

Many years had passed with much peace and prosperity throughout King Edwin’s reign. Every man treated his neighbor justly, following the King’s example with contentment. Until one day, a very troubling trend began to develop – men began to bear false witness against their neighbor. It started with just a single incident; but soon became an epidemic, spreading like wildfire throughout the entire Kingdom. Almost without warning, the eyes of men became darkened, one after another, until truth could hardly be discerned. Men could no longer see to appreciate, and fell into disillusionment and despair. It would seem that the very stability of the Kingdom would be called into question. And so, regrettably, the King was forced to issue a decree – “The next man caught lying, will have both eyes put out.” The Seal of King Edwin was placed upon the decree and it was posted throughout every corner of Dutchington. So perplexed and disheartened was the great King with the conditions that had developed, men losing their ability to see truth, that he thought such drastic measures necessary, though one man may lose his sight, lest his entire Kingdom should fall into darkness, and all would be lost.

Well, it didn’t take long. Once the King’s decree was posted, “The King’s decree! The next man caught lying, will have both eyes put out,” word seemed to travel almost overnight. The scourge of bearing false witness came to an abrupt end. No one wanted to be blinded. No one wanted to do or say much of anything for quite some time; a lot of soul searching, but no talking. No one was talking. Until one day, it happened - the unthinkable. Someone was caught lying. In a remote village on the outskirts of the Kingdom, a man had deceived his companion and wrought great pain and sorrow. His speech having betrayed him, no question as to his guilt, he is placed in the stockade, to await his fate.

When word reached the Throne as to what had happened the order was given that the man should be brought before the King’s Court for a speedy and judicial resolution of the matter. The next morning, at daybreak, a royal brigade in all of its pomp and ceremony was dispatched many days journey to bring the accused to trial. Of course, news of these events spread quickly throughout Dutchington. And soon, one thing would be in the minds and on the lips of every soul in the Kingdom: What would the King do? For during the journey from village to village on their way back to the King’s Court, what was revealed would shock and horrify all those who would discover what no one dared tell the King.

 

[RbM_Lives]

And finally, they arrive, and hurriedly place the prisoner in the dungeon below. The next morning, the man bound hand and foot, his prison garb tattered and torn, is brought before the King with his chains and shackles clanking, as the sound echoes throughout the King’s Court. The dirty and besheveled man, guards on either side clasping his fragile and defeated frame, is marched up before the King as he sits upon his Throne in his high and lofty position. And there, he collapses under the heavy burden of exhaustion and shame. With guilt and condemnation now having dealt their crushing blow, upon the face of his loving King he cannot bear to gaze.

And at that moment, a piercing hush falls over the halls of justice. As everyone stands in utter silence, frozen in time, the deafening reality of what has happened slowly begins to fall over the countenance of the King as his eyes fall upon the accused for the first time. The man who was to have both eyes put out, the man who was caught bearing false witness, was the King’s only son. All of those who had gathered there that day, the King’s generals and royal ensemble, would be utterly breathless in anticipation of the King’s decision. What had consumed the thoughts and hearts of everyone in all of King Edwin’s vast domain would finally be decided. What would the King do? Would he show mercy, and forgive his son, his only son? Or would he exact strict justice and carry out the full sanction of the law? And put out both eyes of his son, his only son? Surely he would show mercy towards his son that he loved so much, many had said. King Edwin was such a kind and loving King, they thought; there’s no way he could blind his only son, lest he be seen as harsh and unmerciful, and his love be called into question. But others would reply the King is a just King with a high regard for the law; he must enforce his decree lest his integrity be called into question. And so, faced with such a dilemma, the King knew instantly that his decision would have a profound effect throughout his entire Kingdom for all his subjects, and for all time.

The King did not hesitate. He called immediately for his most trusted general, Lexingthor the Great, and commanded that he bring forth the pot of hot coals and the hot poker. Behold the scene. Upon the general’s speedy return, the guards stoop down to grab the King’s son under his arms and pull him to his feet, as the clanking of his chains echo throughout the Court, and down the avenues of his soul. The King gives the order, and his general steps forward as he slides his leathery hand behind the neck of the broken young man, and then places his right hand upon the hot poker’s handle with a firm grip. He removes the hot poker from the coals of fire, and with a quick, involuntary glance, the hardened general looks back towards his Sovereign as he raises it to eye level. Noting his slight hesitation, the King nods with sorrowful approval and assurance, and looks away. And as the guards firm their grip upon the young man’s trembling frame, the general pushes forward the hot poker’s sharp tip, and with a shallow gasp from the crowd, and then a short pssst, he puts out one of the King’s son’s eyes…

 

[RbM_Lives]

And then, the King does something that shocks everyone gathered there that day. King Edwin sets aside his Crown, rises from his Throne, and stepping down from his high and lofty position he divests himself of his Kingly robes, and stands before his son as his mighty general and guards step aside. King Edwin then grabs the hot poker as he places his hand upon the shoulder of his son. And as his son raises up his head, to look upon his father’s face for the last time, the King raises up the sharp tip of the red hot poker, and then, the Noble King puts out one of his own eyes, drops the poker, and as the two look eye to eye, the King says, “loose him, and let him go, now.”

And so, the one-eyed King of Dutchington upholds the integrity of the law, and shows mercy at the same time. Although the letter of the law is not fulfilled, the spirit of the law is fulfilled. In order to fulfill the letter of the law, it is true, that both eyes of the King’s son would have to be put out. And although the King would have shown his respect for the law in doing so, his mercy would have suffered. And had the King pardoned his son from the penalty of the law, his sense of justice would have been called into question. Either way, the Kingdom suffers. So, King Edwin puts out two eyes, one of his son’s, and then, one of his own. And although it doesn’t satisfy strict justice, it satisfies public justice. By providing a strong deterrent to future moral wrong in putting out one of his son’s eyes, the King upholds the integrity of his decree. However, the King also does something far more important. He provides a much greater deterrent to future moral wrong than the sanction of the law ever could – the love and affection that the King shows for his son in substituting one of his own eyes for that of his son, with such a selfless act of pity and compassion, would give rise to a love within his subjects for their Sovereign that they had never experienced before. They would now serve him, not out of fear of punishment or hope of reward, but because they now knew how much the King really loved not only his son, but them as well. King Edwin puts out one of his own eyes, not only that his son might see, but to promote the overall good of the Kingdom and everyone who would live there.

And every time they would see that one-eyed son, they would be reminded of the severity of disobedience, and to what lengths the King would go to uphold the integrity of the law, not sparing the eye of even his only son. But more importantly, every time they would see their one-eyed King, they would be reminded of what a loving and compassionate King they served, not sparing his own eye from the hot poker’s edge, in an act of selfless love for his beloved son, and Heir to the Throne.

Yes, the people would always remember their one-eyed King. And every time they would think of him, they would be reminded of how much he loved his one-eyed son, and all of the Kingdom, for generations to come.

RbM