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jhef28shim
Guest
well as it seem’s, member of Church of christ nowadays is increasing. how they do that? what’s the diff. about the teaching of INC to RC
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pablope
Guest
Welcome to the Forums.well as it seem’s, member of Church of christ nowadays is increasing. how they do that? what’s the diff. about the teaching of INC to RC
Please re-phrase your question…which Church of Christ and which founder?
You mentioned INC…are you talking about the Iglesia ni Christo founded by Felix Manalo in the Philippines?
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airjohn
Guest
They teach their church is the only correct church, and that it is not a denomination but the real church of Christ, they dont believe in the real presence of Jesus in Commion,they have a motto where the bible is silent we are silent, and they dont believe in using musical instruments during service.They are strong on baptism as means for salvation for adults. They are a break away movement from other protestant churches and formed in 1906.
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ivecomeback
Guest
I assume that you are referring to the “Church of Christ”, a Protestant denomination with its roots in the Restoration movement. If not, than this reply is irrelevant!
There are some similarities between the Catholic Church and the CoC in its doctrine of baptismal regeneration, but IMO the paralellism stops there. The biggests bugaboo is the CoC Sola Scriptura basis of its belief and its VERY narrow interpretation of how one is “saved”. It rejects all Protestant denominations and especially the Catholic Church as being full of the lost. Press a CoC member on the point. In casual conversation, there will be some nod to the “there are saved people in every church” but then when the rubber meets the road and they are studying the Bible with someone, it is “proved” by Scripture that you are lost. Of course, this is my experience as a long time member of the CoC.
Also, the use of only Protestant versions of the Bible (in my experience) lead it to interpret the translation of one word as “teaching” when it is used in a positive sense and as “tradition” when it is used in a negative sense. This leads to the rejection of the traditions of the Catholic Church as “rules taught by men”.
It is NOT growing. The international church of christ, an off-shoot of the traditional Church of Christ, has experienced growth and is characterized by very assertive evangelism and a focus on discipleship - some of which in the past was pretty unhealthy but not so much now. The traditional Church of Christ, on the other hand, is dying out. You can find numerous articles, including the bemoaning of Abiliene University about enrollments.
I was in it for 25 years, spent considerable time researching the differences between it and the Catholic Church, and made a decision to “revert” to Catholicism in 2009. it was based on solid doctrine, despite the assertions of the congregation that I left.
I could go on and on. The experience that I had with the CoC was positive, but lacking in the depth of spirituality that is within the Catholic church and its celebration of the Eucharist.
There are some similarities between the Catholic Church and the CoC in its doctrine of baptismal regeneration, but IMO the paralellism stops there. The biggests bugaboo is the CoC Sola Scriptura basis of its belief and its VERY narrow interpretation of how one is “saved”. It rejects all Protestant denominations and especially the Catholic Church as being full of the lost. Press a CoC member on the point. In casual conversation, there will be some nod to the “there are saved people in every church” but then when the rubber meets the road and they are studying the Bible with someone, it is “proved” by Scripture that you are lost. Of course, this is my experience as a long time member of the CoC.
Also, the use of only Protestant versions of the Bible (in my experience) lead it to interpret the translation of one word as “teaching” when it is used in a positive sense and as “tradition” when it is used in a negative sense. This leads to the rejection of the traditions of the Catholic Church as “rules taught by men”.
It is NOT growing. The international church of christ, an off-shoot of the traditional Church of Christ, has experienced growth and is characterized by very assertive evangelism and a focus on discipleship - some of which in the past was pretty unhealthy but not so much now. The traditional Church of Christ, on the other hand, is dying out. You can find numerous articles, including the bemoaning of Abiliene University about enrollments.
I was in it for 25 years, spent considerable time researching the differences between it and the Catholic Church, and made a decision to “revert” to Catholicism in 2009. it was based on solid doctrine, despite the assertions of the congregation that I left.
I could go on and on. The experience that I had with the CoC was positive, but lacking in the depth of spirituality that is within the Catholic church and its celebration of the Eucharist.
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ivecomeback
Guest
Actually they trace their roots to the teachings of Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone, which is somewhere in the mid 1800-s.
You are referring to the traditional CoC that is mostly in southern US. The International CoC does have musical instruments, and at one time stated “where the bible speaks, we speak and where the Bible is silent, we speak”. I was at that particular conference.
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airjohn
Guest
thanks for to info
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osita4krist
Guest
All these about COC, Anglican,Luthureran, Methodist,Protestants,pentecostal ism, I want to ask is christen dom fighting the devil or are they more interested in the justification of Disobedience. Christ have mercy on the lost sheep.
To me the differences are
There are some similarities between the Catholic Church and the CoC in its doctrine of baptismal regeneration, but IMO the paralellism stops there. The biggests bugaboo is the CoC Sola Scriptura basis of its belief and its VERY narrow interpretation of how one is “saved”. It rejects all Protestant denominations and especially the Catholic Church as being full of the lost. Press a CoC member on the point. In casual conversation, there will be some nod to the “there are saved people in every church” but then when the rubber meets the road and they are studying the Bible with someone, it is “proved” by Scripture that you are lost. Of course, this is my experience as a long time member of the CoC.
Also, the use of only Protestant versions of the Bible (in my experience) lead it to interpret the translation of one word as “teaching” when it is used in a positive sense and as “tradition” when it is used in a negative sense. This leads to the rejection of the traditions of the Catholic Church as “rules taught by men”.
It is NOT growing. The international church of christ, an off-shoot of the traditional Church of Christ, has experienced growth and is characterized by very assertive evangelism and a focus on discipleship - some of which in the past was pretty unhealthy but not so much now. The traditional Church of Christ, on the other hand, is dying out. You can find numerous articles, including the bemoaning of Abiliene University about enrollments.
I was in it for 25 years, spent considerable time researching the differences between it and the Catholic Church, and made a decision to “revert” to Catholicism in 2009. it was based on solid doctrine, despite the assertions of the congregation that I left.
I could go on and on. The experience that I had with the CoC was positive, but lacking in the depth of spirituality that is within the Catholic church and its celebration of the Eucharist.
To me the differences are
- they are scared of confessing their sins to mare mortals even when the early christians and the scripture approves, 2.They register their churches as corporate entities with board of directors drawn from within the family ranks of the founders as the case in my country. So many differences which are inexhaustible. ‘He that have ear let him hear’ ‘that they may be one as I and the Father’
There are the other sheep from a different fold. I rest my case for now.
There are some similarities between the Catholic Church and the CoC in its doctrine of baptismal regeneration, but IMO the paralellism stops there. The biggests bugaboo is the CoC Sola Scriptura basis of its belief and its VERY narrow interpretation of how one is “saved”. It rejects all Protestant denominations and especially the Catholic Church as being full of the lost. Press a CoC member on the point. In casual conversation, there will be some nod to the “there are saved people in every church” but then when the rubber meets the road and they are studying the Bible with someone, it is “proved” by Scripture that you are lost. Of course, this is my experience as a long time member of the CoC.
Also, the use of only Protestant versions of the Bible (in my experience) lead it to interpret the translation of one word as “teaching” when it is used in a positive sense and as “tradition” when it is used in a negative sense. This leads to the rejection of the traditions of the Catholic Church as “rules taught by men”.
It is NOT growing. The international church of christ, an off-shoot of the traditional Church of Christ, has experienced growth and is characterized by very assertive evangelism and a focus on discipleship - some of which in the past was pretty unhealthy but not so much now. The traditional Church of Christ, on the other hand, is dying out. You can find numerous articles, including the bemoaning of Abiliene University about enrollments.
I was in it for 25 years, spent considerable time researching the differences between it and the Catholic Church, and made a decision to “revert” to Catholicism in 2009. it was based on solid doctrine, despite the assertions of the congregation that I left.
I could go on and on. The experience that I had with the CoC was positive, but lacking in the depth of spirituality that is within the Catholic church and its celebration of the Eucharist.
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jhef28shim
Guest
thx for the info… yup im reffering about the “INC” in the PH.founded by Felix Manalo?
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aragonjohn1
Guest
here is an excellant debate by one of catholic answers apologists Jesse Romero VS: INC :knight1:
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Shalom
God Bless you on journey:bounce:
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andrewstx
Guest
Are you talking about the Phillpine Iglesia Ni Christo?well as it seem’s, member of Church of christ nowadays is increasing. how they do that? what’s the diff. about the teaching of INC to RC
The american sect that goes by the same name in english is very different from the Iglesia Ni Christo,and is shrinking.
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andrewstx
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I too was in the “church of Christ” for 17 years, but you are not exactly correct in saying the cofc had it’s beginnings in the Campbells and Stone. They founded the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).
The diiferences between the Disciples and the CofC started after the Civil War and escalted until 1906 when the two denominations were listed seperately in the census of religions. But is is not quite so cut and dry that people can say the CofC was invented in 1906.
Even the insrument debate is not cut and dry. I remember reading of two congregations in KY, one dlsliked “the instrument” and ended up in a church with an organ. The other liked “the instrument” and ended up in a church with no organ. I beleive they ended up swapping churches and still belonged to the same denomination.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
The original Disciples of Christ are dying out. Apparently their national organization printed a flyer they sent out to all affiliated churhes warning of what they call “steeplechasing”, a practice by which some group of people get membership in a C of C congregation, then take it over and drive the previous group out. Since all churches are “owned” by the membership, this can be highly successful. They even warned about Muslim groups doing it. It’s fundamentally a property takeover.
The “other” C of C is essentially a non-denominational church that has no doctrines other than the salvific nature of Jesus Christ and the necessity of baptism. Different ones may resemble another, but there is no real organization to them. Some engage in disputes with others about the use of single versus multiple cups at “communion” and organ music. But basically, each one is the creation of its own congregation. Typically, they are dominated by one or more dominant personalities in the congregation, just as most non-denominational churches are.
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andrewstx
Guest
It is true the Disciples are dwindling, as are all main line Protestant denominations. I don’t think the CsofC are non denominational, I think they are about the most exclusionary sect in existence today. They use the word "christian"as a sort of trademark and use it to describe themselves only.
They call all others “the denominations” while they and they alone think they are THE church. Even they don’t use ND to describe themsleves, they say “undenominational”.
Really I just wanted to point out the Disciples/church of Christ seperation can not be pin pointed to 1906. The division was really years in the making. All starting with the civil war. Most csofc are in the south and the majority of doc in the midwest and north.
My folks who are still in “the church” and their membership have dropped drasticaly, when I was a teen there they were pulling over 1,000 a sunday now they are lucky to get 400. When the older members die they are not being replaced. I also think it had a lot to do with the social conditions post war.
The south was defeated and was broken, they are more conservative as well. After the war they could not not afford organs, seminary educated “preachers” and more costly churches.
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flameburns623
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The Churches of Chrisr, Independent Christian Chuches & Churches of Christ, and the Disciples of Christ all have their roots in a quasi-ecumenical movement called the “Christian Connection”, extant in the late 1700’s/ early 1800’s. Barton Stone & Thomas and Alexander Campbell became influential members starting in the 1820’s. Original impetus was a reunification of Christians around the Bible and a minimal number of doctrines and practices. Also, eschewing denominational labels for simply being “Christians”. They used to say, ‘We aren’t the only Christians but we are Christians only’. They really seem to have hoped this approach would unify Christian bodies. Didn’t work. Within 50 years the “Christian Connection” had become one of the most-divisive Protestant sects in America, with the two most-fundamentalist splinters using language implying they think of themselves as the “only” Christians.
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ivecomeback
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Balcerhouse
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youtube.com/watch?v=dIKrwMDTnSg
here’s a video of a debate between Karl Keating and I think it’s Manalo.
INC is a cult.
here’s a video of a debate between Karl Keating and I think it’s Manalo.
INC is a cult.
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andrewstx
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andrewstx
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To continue I have nearly lost all respect and reverence for the bible due to my cofC upbringing. These people think the bible is God and have it as an idol.
I do not exagerate, they think everthing not speciffically commanded in the bible is automatically forbidden as being as “unauthorised by God”. Every sunday I heard the cofC unordained never set foot in seminary preacher call the bible “god” by saying “God said in book, chapter, verse”.
The bible is not God, it is a book written by inspired human beings, but not direcly by God,
When I have read in CAF of the inerency of the bible I react badly, becuase what comes to my mind is the fundamental literalness they think of the bible. I react in the opposite direction.
You can take the boy, out of the cofC, but you can never take the boy out of the cofC so deeply do they indoctrinate you from young childhood, memorising prooftexts pounded into your head by this near-cultic ecclesial sect.
I do not exagerate, they think everthing not speciffically commanded in the bible is automatically forbidden as being as “unauthorised by God”. Every sunday I heard the cofC unordained never set foot in seminary preacher call the bible “god” by saying “God said in book, chapter, verse”.
The bible is not God, it is a book written by inspired human beings, but not direcly by God,
When I have read in CAF of the inerency of the bible I react badly, becuase what comes to my mind is the fundamental literalness they think of the bible. I react in the opposite direction.
You can take the boy, out of the cofC, but you can never take the boy out of the cofC so deeply do they indoctrinate you from young childhood, memorising prooftexts pounded into your head by this near-cultic ecclesial sect.
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texasmavs1985
Guest
I totally have to agree with your post. I was born and raised into the traditional CoC (unfortunately in one of the biggest Baptist towns in Texas) and did basically the same thing. Did some research on the CoC compared to other denominations, actually attended some services (mainly Baptist and Methodist but then to Mass at a couple of Catholic churches) and found a HUGE lack of actual spirituality within the CoC. Not to sound mean or cruel to the folks at ACU (Abilene Christian University) considering I have 2 cousins and an uncle that did graduate from there but from experience in spending 25 years in the CoC, I have noticed that if someone who is going to college other than Harding (located in Arkansas) or ACU then the church basically has nothing to do with you. I’ve spent a couple of years at Baylor and have met a few people at school who visited the church I went to and they basically told me they didn’t feel comfortable going to that church since they weren’t going to ACU. Its kind of a wonder why the CoC is on the decline.
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