Difference in "Tainted" Vaccines vs. Embryonic Stem Cell Research?

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I’m confused about the difference. I’m under the impression that embryonic stem cell research is bad bad bad and that as Catholics we should never ever use products or treatments developed from this research, even if it costs us our life. But with the abortion tainted vaccines, if I understand correctly, the Church isn’t quite so adamant. They say that it’s wrong for us to use the vaccines, but only a little bit wrong, and that parents can use the vaccines, although it’s still a sin, just not a “big” one. That’s how it sounds to me. Can anyone clarify the difference?

I’m very upset and can’t sleep well at night trying to figure out if the right thing to do is to get those tainted vaccines or not, and I’m frustrated because it feels like the Church isn’t being consistent with it’s pro-life stance on this one. (You know, they say contraception no no no but, vaccines tainted with abortion? Maybe that’s not sooo bad, after all it’s for the greater good…) Supposedly it’s the lesser of the two evils, but how is not getting the vaccine “evil”? That would mean that it was “evil” to be born before the vaccine was developed, and surely that’s not possible.

I’m afraid I don’t have a very well formed conscience, because I’m so conflicted on what to do. (I’m a convert, only been Catholic for 1 year so all this moral theology stuff is pretty new to me.) Also, someone made the analogy if instead of aborted fetal cells, the medium was concentration camp victims from Germany, would it be any different? Would the Church be adamantly opposed to using vaccines that were tainted with born victims of murder? Is this us somehow saying that unborn murder isn’t as bad…?

Please help. (I’m not looking for medical advice, I’m trying to understand a moral issue here…)
 
[medical advice recanted…sorry about that]

To my understanding, any vaccine that is made form aborted babies is contrary to the criteria for morality, but I can’t defend that at the moment…I’ll look and see what I can find unless someone else knows already.
 
I am on the complete opposite side of the fence as the previous poster. I can’t understand why someone would NOT vaccinate. My friend’s baby (a month or two old) almost died from pertussis because an unvaccinated child exposed her. Now, she is in special education, the doctors suspect, because her brain lost so much oxygen when she was sick as an infant with Pertussis.

I understand some children cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, but in my opinion, this is even more reason to vaccinate the children who can be.

Be careful what you read when you research. Read peer reviewed medical research. Check with your local health department. Ask your pediatrician. Do NOT read biased internet hype about vaccines.

That said, the church does allow your child to be vaccinated, so rest assured on that front. 🙂

Edited to add that when my friend’s baby got sick, she gave it to my son who had 2 pertussis vaccines at that point (I think it was two…maybe only one…it’s been 12 years), and he had a very mild case due to the vaccine, that GOD! He was only 6 months old.
 
ahs said:
Why do you want to vaccinate to begin with? I’m going to hunt down a weblink for you in a bit that will give you TONS of information on this.

In the meantime, I’ll tell you that my wife and I do not vaccinate our children. After much research, we can find no reason for it. The most rampant illnesses the vaccines were created to fight only got worse when the vaccines came about and most of the infections were in those who had been vaccinated.

The ONE vaccine we actually did get, for measles (MMR Vaccine) on our first daughter, led to a case of the measles on our then 1-yr-old. That was the last vaccine we ever did. When we said goodbye to vaccines, we had NO further illness in her since (she’s 6 now), nor in any of our other children who have never had any shots.

To my understanding, any vaccine that is made form aborted babies is contrary to the criteria for morality, but I can’t defend that at the moment…I’ll look and see what I can find unless someone else knows already.
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I understand that some people have strong opinions about to vaccinate or not, and I’ve read everything I could get my hands on both pro and cons, however, that is not what I’m looking for here. I just want to understand the moral issue, assuming vaccines are good for us, why would the Church support their use if they are tainted? Medical advice isn’t allowed on the forums and I don’t want this thread closed down because people start giving medical advice.
 
sharmin said:
Be careful what you read when you research. Read peer reviewed medical research. Check with your local health department. Ask your pediatrician. Do NOT read biased internet hype about vaccines.

That said, the church does allow your child to be vaccinated, so rest assured on that front. 🙂
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For what it’s worth, the OP wants the Catholic view on the issue. I recanted my advice after I noticed she was not looking for medical advice and that article was written entirely from the Catholic perspective, reviewed and endorsed by 4 Priests and a Bishop, one being a professor in moral theology. It is also on file at the The National Catholic Bioethics Center.

Yes, be careful what you read. What I posted is in line with the Catholic Church…which is what the OP is wanting.
 
ahs said:
For what it’s worth, the OP wants the Catholic view on the issue. I recanted my advice after I noticed she was not looking for medical advice and that article was written entirely from the Catholic perspective, reviewed and endorsed by 4 Priests and a Bishop, one being a professor in moral theology. It is also on file at the The National Catholic Bioethics Center.

Yes, be careful what you read. What I posted is in line with the Catholic Church…which is what the OP is wanting.
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Thank you. I was just responding to you before I realized that as well. 🙂 I did include the church’s stance too. I was told more than one priest that being vaccinated is in line with church teaching.
 
sharmin said:
Be careful what you read when you research. Read peer reviewed medical research. Check with your local health department. Ask your pediatrician. Do NOT read biased internet hype about vaccines.

That said, the church does allow your child to be vaccinated, so rest assured on that front. 🙂
Click to expand...
That’s the point, I can’t rest assured knowing that the Church allows for this - it confuses me. I converted to Catholicism in part because of the Church’s staunch pro-life record. I feel like saying it’s okay for Catholics to get these tainted vaccines is problematic and I can’t reconcile it. How is using products or treatments developed from embryonic stem cells not okay but these vaccines are okay? Or am I confused about the stem cells, would it be acceptable to use those treatments if it’s a matter of life and death?
 
sharmin said:
Thank you. I was just responding to you before I realized that as well. 🙂 I did include the church’s stance too. I was told more than one priest that being vaccinated is in line with church teaching.
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This isn’t a debate about vacination. For almost all childhood vacinations there are multiple sources. Some of those sources derive from fetal tissue – some do not. With one or two exceptions, it is possible, with a bit of research and persistance to vacinate but avoid those sources that use fetal tissue.

Now back to the topic at hand… 🙂
 
Corki said:
This isn’t a debate about vacination. For almost all childhood vacinations there are multiple sources. Some of those sources derive from fetal tissue – some do not. With one or two exceptions, it is possible, with a bit of research and persistance to vacinate but avoid those sources that use fetal tissue.

Now back to the topic at hand… 🙂
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I have to leave for now, but if anyone could address my concerns I’ll be back here later to check. Please read my original post and let me know your thoughts - about the stem cells, about the difference if it were originated from a concentration camp victim instead of a fetus, about a consistent life ethic…thanks!
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
That’s the point, I can’t rest assured knowing that the Church allows for this - it confuses me. I converted to Catholicism in part because of the Church’s staunch pro-life record. I feel like saying it’s okay for Catholics to get these tainted vaccines is problematic and I can’t reconcile it. How is using products or treatments developed from embryonic stem cells not okay but these vaccines are okay? Or am I confused about the stem cells, would it be acceptable to use those treatments if it’s a matter of life and death?
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It is confusing and t’s not a purely black and white issue. The Church teaches that it is wrong not only to sin yourself but to materially cooperate with the sin. An individual’s responsibilty depends largely on what the sin is and how far away you are from the action.

In the case of vacinations, the source of the tissue is aborted fetuses. Neither the patient receiving the vaccine, the doctor/nurse giving the vaccine, the salesperson selling the vaccine nor the researcher who developed the vaccine had any say in the sin (the abortion). So the level of cooperation is very, very, distant. Also, no one gets an abortion in order to add to the tissue bank for vaccines. There isn’t a motivation in the sinful act that is directly related to the vaccine.

In the case of embryonic stem cell research, the source of the stem cells is created embryos. It is still true that neither the patient receiving the treatment, the doctor/nurse giving the treatment, or the salesperson selling the treatment has any say in the sin (the creation and destruction of human embryos). But the researcher who develops the treatment not only had a say, he/she was the actor in the sin (creating and destroying human embryos). Also, his motivation for the sinful act was directly related to the development of the treatment. The degree of cooperation for all involved is much closer.

Now the Church has not ruled on whether it would be immoral for a patient to receive treatment derived from embryo-destructive research. What the Church says is that the research itself is gravely immoral.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
That’s the point, I can’t rest assured knowing that the Church allows for this - it confuses me. I converted to Catholicism in part because of the Church’s staunch pro-life record. I feel like saying it’s okay for Catholics to get these tainted vaccines is problematic and I can’t reconcile it. How is using products or treatments developed from embryonic stem cells not okay but these vaccines are okay? Or am I confused about the stem cells, would it be acceptable to use those treatments if it’s a matter of life and death?
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Make an appointment with your priest or spiritual advisor.
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
I have to leave for now, but if anyone could address my concerns I’ll be back here later to check. Please read my original post and let me know your thoughts - about the stem cells, about the difference if it were originated from a concentration camp victim instead of a fetus, about a consistent life ethic…thanks!
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My advice is that instead of seeking advise on an internet forum, I would discuss spiritual concerns about vaxes with your priest and medical concerns about vaxes (if you have any) with your doctor. All else is opinion and you will find many differing opinions that will confuse you more. 🙂 Good luck!
 
Corki said:
Now the Church has not ruled on whether it would be immoral for a patient to receive treatment derived from embryo-destructive research. What the Church says is that the research itself is gravely immoral.
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Oh, I see. I’m not sure why, but I was under the impression that there was something saying we couldn’t receive any treatment from this source. Is there anything saying that we can?
 
D0UBTFIRE said:
Oh, I see. I’m not sure why, but I was under the impression that there was something saying we couldn’t receive any treatment from this source. Is there anything saying that we can?
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Not that I know of. As I said, I don’t think the Church has ruled on this. The USCCB has a statement on embryonic stem cell research but it focuses primarily on the immorality of the research.
 
ahs said:
[medical advice recanted…sorry about that]

To my understanding, any vaccine that is made form aborted babies is contrary to the criteria for morality, but I can’t defend that at the moment…I’ll look and see what I can find unless someone else knows already.
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There is also the issue that such vaccines are not always clearly labeled as such, reducing the culpability of the parents in allowing their use.
 
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