Difference of opinion in spirituality (A good Separation or a Future division)

[KaneKatholic]

Before I start this is my understnding of what happened in the recent years as the relationship between Catholics in the roman rite with a more traditional preference and Catholics with a contemporary preference in things mainly the mass… Contemporaries jumped for joy when the mass changed after V2 and some took it too far and crafted the “spirit of Vatican 2” …Those who realized they didnt like the new mass felt hopeless especially if it happened in their parish. years later thanx to Pope Benedict XVI
the latin mass can now be offered without restraint (the the anger of some bishops i think)
This forced newer realized Trad.s to move to other parishes.
NOW the problem lies in how we percieve each other and (NOTE IM LABELING HERE BECAUSE OF CONVENIENCE)
I now work within my archdiocese and it is much more contemporary than I would have wanted (but whatever)and when planning big Masses they tend to appeal more to contemporaries. It seems the popular view of the Traditionailist’s prayerstyle and prefernces is one of separation (Jesus isnt friend but lord). the contemp. seems to think this way. And the Trad.s on the other hand view the Contemp.s as anti-reverence, (No feard of the lord with a complete loss of holiness hes just another like me) this attitude leads to (for example.) to two totally different ways of self carrying in front of the MBS
We both have preconcieved ideas of each other
My opinion is that we should separate (not in a dividing way) we should just keep to our own parishes and practices and not talk down each other but present the two basic types as equal and up to preference and JUST BE CATHOLICS. What we need is dialogue and thats it
ANYONE AGREE? DISAGREE??!
and with both sides how far is too far and what goes beyond preference to obsession?

 

[KaneKatholic]

DONT READ MY FIRST POST READ THIS ONE
Before I start this is my short understanding of what happened in the recent years as the relationship between Catholics in the roman rite with a more traditional preference ( ) and Catholics with a contemporary preference in things ( :extrahappy: ) mainly the mass… Contemporaries jumped for joy when the mass changed after V2 and some took it too far and crafted the “spirit of Vatican 2” …Those who realized they didn’t like the new mass felt hopeless especially if it happened in their parish… years later, thanx to Pope Benedict XVI,
the latin mass can now be offered without restraint (to the anger of some bishops i think)
This compelled newer Trad.s to move to other parishes.
NOW the problem lies in how we perceive each other and (NOTE IM LABELING HERE BECAUSE OF CONVENIENCE)
I now work within my archdiocese and it is much more contemporary than I would have wanted (but whatever) and when planning big Masses they tend to appeal more to contemporaries.
It seems the popular view of the Traditionalist’s prayer style and preferences is one of separation (Jesus isn’t friend but lord) or a transcendent G-d-View. The contemporary seems to think this way about us . And the Trad.s on the other hand view the Contemp.’s as anti-reverence, (No fear of the lord with a complete loss of holiness he’s my homeboy)(this leads to different church architecture AND I HAVE SEEN WHT I CONCEVE AS DISASTERS) this (HE’s my homeboy) attitude also leads to (for example.) to two totally different ways of self-carrying in front of the MBS
We both have preconceived ideas of each other that go to extremes (and many blame it on the trad.s)
My opinion is that we should separate (not in a dividing way) we should just keep to our own parishes and practices and not talk down each other but present the two basic types as equal and up to preference and JUST BE CATHOLICS or just leave the situation alone, just like temperaments we need to learn how to co-exist as One church .
To stay away when we need to stay away and come together when we need to come together.
ANYONE AGREE? DISAGREE??!
and with both sides how far is too far and what goes beyond preference to obsession?

 

[TrueLight]

My opinion is that we should separate (not in a dividing way) we should just keep to our own parishes and practices and not talk down each other but present the two basic types as equal and up to preference and JUST BE CATHOLICS or just leave the situation alone, just like temperaments we need to learn how to co-exist as One church .

Are you recommending that we have different rites?

I am certainly all for that, to be honest.

But which one would be the Latin rite?

And I am not pitting one form against the other.

But when you look at the Extraordinary form, it really is quite different from the OF. . Since there are traditional parishes/societies, why not just make the EF a rite instead of a form?

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I disagree. I think we should hybridize and move forward together as Latin Rite Catholics, in a spirit of intimate reverence towards God.

Don’t get me wrong, there can be legitimate diversity of taste and even opinion within the Church, and not every mass has to be celebrated in exactly the same way. The current division of the Roman Liturgy into an Ordinary and an Extraordinary Form seems like a prudent solution for the present and for some time into the future, at least until such time as the two move closer together (and most of the movement would have to be on the part of the Ordinary Form). I also acknowledge that there are a lot of problems in the Church which are of recent origin and which self-proclaimed traditionalists have successfully insolated themselves from, and this witness can be of benefit to the whole Church. But I think our end goal ought to be Latin unity (aside from venerable local uses and rites and other legitimate local variations, different spiritualities, etc.), and we should practice this to the limited extent that is possible even now, beginning with not stereotyping each other or imposing false boundaries between different Catholic “camps”.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

I say we just pray to God to bring the Latin Rite to the perfection He wills it to have, whatever that may be and whatever that may entail. Thy will be done God not mine!

LORD Jesus Christ, take all my freedom, my memory, my understanding, and my will. All that I have and cherish Thou hast given me. I surrender it all to be guided by Thy will. Thy grace and Thy love are wealth enough for me. Give me these Lord Jesus and I ask for nothing more. Amen

SUSCIPE, Domine, universam meam libertatem. Accipe memoriam, intellectum atque voluntatem omnem. Quidquid habeo vel possideo mihi largitus es; id tibi totum restituo, ac tuae prorsus voluntati trado gubernandum. Amorem tui solum cum gratia tua mihi dones, et dives sum satis, nec aliud quidquam ultra posco. Amen

 

[Julia_Mae]

I disagree. I think we should hybridize and move forward together as Latin Rite Catholics, in a spirit of intimate reverence towards God…

Absolutely. Less division is what is needed, not more.

The people who opine, complain, politic for their view, who live for their own rhetoric ( I have expertise in this area!) are polarized in every kind of issue. Chefs and how to prepare a recipe can be as violent an argument as pro life or choice.

People are nuts, you know.

But we do not separate and that’s why the hierarchical structure that sometimes leads to abuse also leads us to Unity and strength in faith.

The in-fighting is discouraging, but the Liar knows what “divide and conquer” means. You cannot have separation without elitism. People will always believe: I am right and so this is better and I believe this, ergo, even though I won’t say it aloud I AM BETTER THAN YOU.

Please help fight for unity. Jesus wanted us to be one.

 

[Warrenton]

I disagree. I think we should hybridize and move forward together as Latin Rite Catholics, in a spirit of intimate reverence towards God.

No way. But — what if we just admit that after 1054, we Latins just went off the rails. I mean, there have been a few bright spots, like the inquisition and clown masses, but otherwise, it’s pretty much gone from bad to worse. A nine hundred year slide.

However, they say, you gotta hit bottom before you can climb out.

So…let’s just go Greek. No need to hybridize, quibble over translations, or self segregate. No endless haggling over Vatican I or Vatican 2, or whether Florence was legit or bogus (I mean the council, not the nurse - she was definitely legit, and she worked in Sevastopol). Fess up, how many of us, in a weak moment, have not had the sneaking suspicion the Greeks may just have been right all these years?

And for intimate reverence, there’s not much more sublime than the Liturgy of St. Chrysostom.

Any takers?

 

[TrueLight]

No way. But — what if we just admit that after 1054, we Latins just went off the rails. I mean, there have been a few bright spots, like the inquisition and clown masses, but otherwise, it’s pretty much gone from bad to worse. A nine hundred year slide.

However, they say, you gotta hit bottom before you can climb out.

So…let’s just go Greek. No need to hybridize, quibble over translations, or self segregate. No endless haggling over Vatican I or Vatican 2, or whether Florence was legit or bogus (I mean the council, not the nurse - she was definitely legit, and she worked in Sevastopol). Fess up, how many of us, in a weak moment, have not had the sneaking suspicion the Greeks may just have been right all these years?

And for intimate reverence, there’s not much more sublime than the Liturgy of St. Chrysostom.

Any takers?

That was quite an entertaining post.

 

[Warrenton]

You cannot have separation without elitism. People will always believe: I am right and so this is better and I believe this, ergo, even though I won’t say it aloud I AM BETTER THAN YOU…

Is it not at least conceivable that some people think this issue revolves around truth?

 

[Warrenton]

That was quite an entertaining post.

:hug1:

Good night!

 

[Julia_Mae]

Is it not at least conceivable that some people think this issue revolves around truth?

Absolutely. But good intentions are conscious, the Liar works on our hidden ego, our self-satisfaction, our need to sit at the popular kids table. Jesus wanted us to be One, I’m for unity.