Differences and commonalities between Catholic and Baha'i cosmology

[Vouthon]

Dear Servant

If I may ask, could you please read parts (particularly from section 3 onward) of this 2011 document from the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, so that we can discuss this in some depth:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#3._An_Authority_over_Globalization

If you could link me to any Baha’i documents on world government or commonwealth, it would be greatly appreciated

Ostensibly, I think that the Baha’i belief in a collective security arrangement among the world’s nations and a global commonwealth coming into being is substantially similar to Catholic statements of the need for a world political authority to direct globalization and provide stability on the transnational sphere in an increasingly interdependent world.

What is interesting though, is that while Baha’is declare the need for such a commonwealth to come into being, they are not participate in political office holding. Indeed Baha’is relate the creation of a world commonwealth not with the “Most Great Peace” but the preceding “Lesser Peace”, which Baha’is from my reading will not directly create. Am I correct?

What are Baha’is encouraged to do to so as to help the international sphere develop a truly effective judicial and political structure equivalent to the effectiveness of such institutions in the national or domestic sphere?

The Vatican has said:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#4._Towards_Reforming_the_International_Financial_and_Monetary_Systems_in_a_way_that_Responds_to_the_Needs_of_all_Peoples

It is the task of today’s generation to recognize and consciously to accept these new world dynamics for the achievement of a universal common good. Of course, this transformation will be made at the cost of a gradual, balanced transfer of a part of each nation’s powers to a world Authority and to regional Authorities, but this is necessary at a time when the dynamism of human society and the economy and the progress of technology are transcending borders, which are in fact already very eroded in a globalized world.

The birth of a new society and the building of new institutions with a universal vocation and competence are a prerogative and a duty for everyone, without distinction. What is at stake is the common good of humanity and the future itself.

In this context, for every Christian there is a special call of the Spirit to become committed decisively and generously so that the many dynamics under way will be channelled towards prospects of fraternity and the common good. An immense amount of work is to be done towards the integral development of peoples and of every person. As the Fathers said at the Second Vatican Council, this is a mission that is both social and spiritual, which “to the extent that the former can contribute to the better ordering of human society, it is of vital concern to the Kingdom of God”(24).

In a world on its way to rapid globalization, orientation towards a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering.

Through the account of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), the Bible warns us how the “diversity” of peoples can turn into a vehicle for selfishness and an instrument of division. In humanity there is a real risk that peoples will end up not understanding each other and that cultural differences will lead to irremediable oppositions. The image of the Tower of Babel also warns us that we must avoid a “unity” that is only apparent, where selfishness and divisions endure because the foundations of the society are not stable. In both cases, Babel is the image of what peoples and individuals can become when they do not recognize their intrinsic, transcendent dignity and brotherhood.

The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth.** Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good**

 

[Vouthon]

Dear Servant

If I may ask, could you please read parts (particularly from section 3 onward) of this 2011 document from the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#3._An_Authority_over_Globalization

If you could link me to any Baha’i documents on world government or commonwealth, it would be greatly appreciated

Ostensibly, I think that the Baha’i belief in a collective security arrangement among the world’s nations and a global commonwealth coming into being is substantially similar to Catholic statements on the need for a world political authority to direct globalization and provide stability on the transnational sphere in an increasingly interdependent world.

What is interesting though, is that while Baha’is declare the need for such a commonwealth to come into being, they are not participate in political office holding. Indeed Baha’is relate the creation of a world commonwealth not with the “Most Great Peace” but the preceding “Lesser Peace”, which Baha’is from my reading will not directly create. Am I correct?

What are Baha’is encouraged to do to so as to help the international sphere develop a truly effective judicial and political structure equivalent to the effectiveness of such institutions in the national or domestic sphere?

The Vatican has said:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#4._Towards_Reforming_the_International_Financial_and_Monetary_Systems_in_a_way_that_Responds_to_the_Needs_of_all_Peoples

These measures ought to be conceived of as some of the first steps towards a public Authority with universal jurisdiction; as a first stage in a longer effort by the global community to steer its institutions towards achieving the common good…

As Benedict XVI exhorts us, agents on all levels – social, political, economic, professional – are urgently needed who have the courage to serve and to promote the common good through an upright life(21)…

Today all of this seems anachronistic and surreal, and all nations, great or small, together with their governments, are called to go beyond the “state of nature” which would keep States in a never-ending struggle with one another. Globalization, despite some of its negative aspects, is unifying peoples more and prompting them to move towards a new “rule of law” on the supranational level, supported by more intense and fruitful modes of collaboration. With dynamics similar to those that put an end in the past to the “anarchical” struggle between rival clans and kingdoms with regard to the creation of national states, today humanity needs to be committed to the transition from a situation of archaic struggles between national entities, to a new model of a more cohesive, polyarchic international society that respects every people’s identity within the multifaceted riches of a single humanity…

It is the task of today’s generation to recognize and consciously to accept these new world dynamics for the achievement of a universal common good. Of course, this transformation will be made at the cost of a gradual, balanced transfer of a part of each nation’s powers to a world Authority and to regional Authorities, but this is necessary at a time when the dynamism of human society and the economy and the progress of technology are transcending borders, which are in fact already very eroded in a globalized world.

The birth of a new society and the building of new institutions with a universal vocation and competence are a prerogative and a duty for everyone, without distinction. What is at stake is the common good of humanity and the future itself.

In this context, for every Christian there is a special call of the Spirit to become committed decisively and generously so that the many dynamics under way will be channelled towards prospects of fraternity and the common good. An immense amount of work is to be done towards the integral development of peoples and of every person. As the Fathers said at the Second Vatican Council, this is a mission that is both social and spiritual, which “to the extent that the former can contribute to the better ordering of human society, it is of vital concern to the Kingdom of God”(24).

In a world on its way to rapid globalization, orientation towards a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering.

Through the account of the Tower of Babel (Genesis 11:1-9), the Bible warns us how the “diversity” of peoples can turn into a vehicle for selfishness and an instrument of division. In humanity there is a real risk that peoples will end up not understanding each other and that cultural differences will lead to irremediable oppositions. The image of the Tower of Babel also warns us that we must avoid a “unity” that is only apparent, where selfishness and divisions endure because the foundations of the society are not stable. In both cases, Babel is the image of what peoples and individuals can become when they do not recognize their intrinsic, transcendent dignity and brotherhood.

The spirit of Babel is the antithesis of the Spirit of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-12), of God’s design for the whole of humanity: that is, unity in truth.** Only a spirit of concord that rises above divisions and conflicts will allow humanity to be authentically one family and to conceive of a new world with the creation of a world public Authority at the service of the common good**

 

[Vouthon]

I draw attention this section also:

This is a complex and delicate process. A supranational Authority in this arena should have a realistic structure and be set up gradually. It should be favourable to the existence of efficient and effective monetary and financial systems; that is, free and stable markets overseen by a suitable legal framework, well-functioning in support of sustainable development and social progress of all, and inspired by the values of charity and truth(15). It is a matter of an Authority with a global reach that cannot be imposed by force, coercion or violence, but should be the outcome of a free and shared agreement and a reflection of the permanent and historic needs of the world common good. It ought to arise from a process of progressive maturation of consciences and advances in freedoms as well as awareness of growing responsibilities. Consequently, reciprocal trust, autonomy and participation cannot be overlooked as if they were superfluous elements. Consent should engage an ever greater number of countries that adhere with conviction, through a sincere dialogue that values the minority opinions rather than marginalizing them. So the world Authority should consistently involve all peoples in a collaboration in which they are called to contribute, bringing to it the heritage of their virtues and their civilizations.

The establishment of a world political Authority should be preceded by a preliminary phase of consultation from which a legitimated institution will emerge that is in a position to be an effective guide and, at the same time, can allow each country to express and pursue its own particular good. The exercise of this Authority at the service of the good of each and every one will necessarily be super partes or impartial: that is, above any partial vision or particular good, with a view to achieving the common good. Its decisions should not be the result of the more developed countries’ superior power over weaker countries. Instead, they should be made in the interest of all, not only to the advantage of some groups, whether they are formed by private lobbies or national governments.…

What is valid on the national level is also valid on the global level. A person is not made to serve authority unconditionally. Rather, it is the task of authority to be at the service of the person, consistent with the pre-eminent value of human dignity. Likewise, governments should not serve the world Authority unconditionally. Instead, it is the world Authority that should put itself at the service of the various member countries, according to the principle of subsidiarity…

Likewise, on a higher level, it ought to govern the relationships between a possible future global public Authority and regional and national institutions. This principle guarantees both democratic legitimacy and the efficacy of the decisions of those called to make them. It allows respect for the freedom of people, individually and in communities, and allows them at the same time to take responsibility for the objectives and duties that pertain to them…

Thanks to the principle of solidarity, a lasting and fruitful relationship would build up between global civil society and a world public Authority as States, intermediate bodies, various institutions – including economic and financial ones – and citizens make their decisions with a view to the global common good, which transcends national goods…

Only in this way can the danger of a central Authority’s bureaucratic isolation be avoided – an isolation that would risk its being delegitimized by an excessive distance from the realities which underlie its existence, and easily falling prey to paternalistic, technocratic or hegemonic temptations.

However, a long road still needs to be travelled before arriving at the creation of a public Authority with universal jurisdiction. It would seem logical for the reform process to proceed with the United Nations as its reference because of the worldwide scope of the UN’s responsibilities, its ability to bring together the nations of the world, and the diversity of its tasks and those of its specialized Agencies. The fruit of such reforms ought to be a greater ability to adopt policies and choices that are binding because they are aimed at achieving the common good on the local, regional and world levels. Among the policies, those regarding global social justice seem most urgent: financial and monetary policies that will not damage the weakest countries(19); and policies aimed at achieving free and stable markets and a fair distribution of world wealth, which may also derive from unprecedented forms of global fiscal solidarity, which will be dealt with later.

On the way to creating a world political Authority, questions of governance (that is, a system of merely horizontal coordination without a higher authority super partes) cannot be separated from those of a shared government (that is, a system which in addition to horizontal coordination establishes a higher authority super partes) which is functional and proportionate to the gradual development of a global political society. The establishment of a global political Authority cannot be achieved without an already functioning multilateralism, not only on a diplomatic level, but also and above all in relation to programs for sustainable development and peace. It is not possible to arrive at global Government without giving political expression to pre-existing forms of interdependence and cooperation

 

[arthra]

Vouthon asked:

Ostensibly, I think that the Baha’i belief in a collective security arrangement among the world’s nations and a global commonwealth coming into being is substantially similar to Catholic statements on the need for a world political authority to direct globalization and provide stability on the transnational sphere in an increasingly interdependent world.

My comment:

I think Baha’is welcome the stated position of the “Catholic statements”… It might be interesting of course if these statements were made say in the 1870’s… or during WWI or in the nineteen forties. What kind of impact would it have made in those times that preceded our own. Being familiar yourself with some of our Baha’i perspectives you note that Baha’u’llah revealed a rather succinct perspective to the rulers of His time to establish a world parliament and an international court of arbitration.

*For example, the question of universal peace, about which Bahá’u’lláh says that the Supreme Tribunal must be established: although the League of Nations has been brought into existence, yet it is incapable of establishing universal peace. But the Supreme Tribunal which Bahá’u’lláh has described will fulfil this sacred task with the utmost might and power. And His plan is this:

that the national assemblies of each country and nation – that is to say parliaments – should elect two or three persons who are the choicest men of that nation, and are well informed concerning international laws and the relations between governments and aware of the essential needs of the world of humanity in this day. The number of these representatives should be in proportion to the number of inhabitants of that country. The election of these souls who are chosen by the national assembly, that is, the parliament, must be confirmed by the upper house, the congress and the cabinet and also by the president or monarch so these persons may be the elected ones of all the nation and the government. From among these people the members of the Supreme Tribunal will be elected, and all mankind will thus have a share therein, for every one of these delegates is fully representative of his nation. When the Supreme Tribunal gives a ruling on any international question, either unanimously or by majority rule, there will no longer be any pretext for the plaintiff or ground of objection for the defendant. In case any of the governments or nations, in the execution of the irrefutable decision of the Supreme Tribunal, be negligent or dilatory, the rest of the nations will rise up against 307 it, because all the governments and nations of the world are the supporters of this Supreme Tribunal. Consider what a firm foundation this is! But by a limited and restricted League the purpose will not be realized as it ought and should. This is the truth about the situation, which has been stated…
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 305

 

[arthra]

Vouthon wrote:

What is interesting though, is that while Baha’is declare the need for such a commonwealth to come into being, they are not participate in political office holding. Indeed Baha’is relate the creation of a world commonwealth not with the “Most Great Peace” but the preceding “Lesser Peace”, which Baha’is from my reading will not directly create. Am I correct?

My comment:

Baha’is do not engage in partisanship or seek political offices in political systems that are adversarial and partisan in their very nature. We also do not enroll in political parties or vote as partisan believing that we should not become subject to political machinations and polarizations:

“'Let them refrain from associating themselves, whether by word or by deed, with the political pursuits of their prospective nations, with the politics of their governments and the schemes and programs of parties and factions. In such controversies they should assign no blame, take no side, further no design, and identify themselves with no system prejudicial to the best interests of that world-wide-Fellowship which it is their aim to guard and foster. Let them beware lest they allow themselves to become the tools of unscrupulous politicians, or to be entrapped by the treacherous devices of the plotters and the perfidious among their countrymen. Let them so shape their lives and regulate their conduct that no charge secrecy, of fraud, of bribery or of intimidation may, however ill-founded, be brought against them. Let them rise above all particularism and partisanship, above the vain disputes, the petty calculations, transient passions that agitate the face, and engage the intention, of a challenging world. It is their duty to strive to distinguish, as clearly as they possibly can, and if needed with the aid of their elected representative, such posts and functions as are either diplomatic or political from those that are purely administrative in character, and which under no circumstances are affected by the changes and chances that political activities and party government, in every land, must necessarily involve. Let them affirm their unyielding determination to stand, firmly and unreservedly, for the way of Bahá’u’lláh, to avoid the entanglements and bickerings inseparable from the pursuits of the politician, and to become worthy agencies of that divine policy which incarnates God’s immutable Purpose for all men.”

From a letter written on the behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of Panama, October 12, 1977

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 448)

For your clarification for us the “Most Great Peace” was offered some time ago and was not accepted:

CXIX. *O ye rulers of the earth! Wherefore have ye clouded the radiance of the Sun, and caused it to cease from shining? Hearken unto the counsel given you by the Pen of the Most High, that haply both ye and the poor may attain unto tranquillity and peace. We beseech God to assist the kings of the earth to establish peace on earth. He, verily, doth what He willeth.

"O kings of the earth! We see you increasing every year your expenditures, and laying the burden thereof on your subjects. This, verily, is wholly and grossly unjust. Fear the sighs and tears of this wronged One, and lay not excessive burdens on your peoples. Do not rob them to rear palaces for yourselves; nay rather choose for them that which ye choose for yourselves. Thus We unfold to your eyes that which profiteth you, if ye but perceive. Your people are your treasures. Beware lest your rule violate the commandments of God, and ye deliver your wards to the hands of the robber. By them ye rule, by their means ye subsist, by their aid ye conquer. Yet, how disdainfully ye look upon them! How strange, how very strange!

Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.

O rulers of the earth! Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need no more armaments save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Beware lest ye disregard the counsel of the All-Knowing, the Faithful.

Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice."
*
~ Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 253 also found in The Summons of the Lord of Hosts p. 91.

The Lesser Peace is a political peace that has been slowly evolving over the course of the past century up till today…

Vouthon asks:

What are Baha’is encouraged to do to so as to help the international sphere develop a truly effective judicial and political structure equivalent to the effectiveness of such institutions in the national or domestic sphere?

My reply:

The Baha’is maintain an Office of the Baha’i International Community in Geneva that occasionally advises representatives of various nations…

bic.org/statements-and-reports/statements

I would also offer for your perusal once again…the text of the World Order of Baha’u’llah which contains many of our perspectives:

bahai-library.com/shoghieffendi_world_order_bahaullah

 

[Servant19]

Hi brother Vouthon,

Thankyou so much for sharing a wealth of beautiful insights and guidance that would warm the heart of every Baha’i and people of goodwill around the world.

If I may quote the Papal Encyclical from Pope Benedict XV:

Thus we see the absence from the relation of men of mutual love with their fellow men; the authority of rulers is held in contempt; injustice reigns in relations between the classes of society; the striving for transient and perishable things is so keen, that men have lost sight of the other and more worthy goods they have to obtain. It is under these four headings that may be grouped, We consider, the causes of the serious unrest pervading the whole of human society.

Indeed I see these headings as being symptoms of a world in social decline. These are symptoms of a global disease, and that disease is “disunity”.

Baha’u’llah emphatically states in His Tablet to Queen Victoria:

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SLH/slh-8.html

The person who sacrificed his life for this to become reality is Baha’u’llah’s youngest son, Mirza Mihdi. (mirzamihdi.org) The unification of the human race will be realised by the sacrifice of this blessed soul.

Blessed Pope Benedict’s Encyclical goes on to say:

All then must combine to get rid of them by again bringing Christian principles into honour, if We have any real desire for the peace and harmony of human society

Would you mind elaborating what these Christian principles are?

In its Ridvan Message 2010, the Universal House of Justice writes:

Bahá’u’lláh’s Revelation is vast. It calls for profound change not only at the level of the individual but also in the structure of society. “Is not the object of every Revelation”, He Himself proclaims, “to effect a transformation in the whole character of mankind, a transformation that shall manifest itself, both outwardly and inwardly, that shall affect both its inner life and external conditions?” The work advancing in every corner of the globe today represents the latest stage of the ongoing Bahá’í endeavour to create the nucleus of the glorious civilization enshrined in His teachings, the building of which is an enterprise of infinite complexity and scale…

…and continues thus:

Let no one fail to appreciate the possibilities thus created. Passivity is bred by the forces of society today. A desire to be entertained is nurtured from childhood, with increasing efficiency, cultivating generations willing to be led by whoever proves skilful at appealing to superficial emotions. Even in many educational systems students are treated as though they were receptacles designed to receive information. That the Bahá’í world has succeeded in developing a culture which promotes a way of thinking, studying, and acting, in which all consider themselves as treading a common path of service—supporting one another and advancing together, respectful of the knowledge that each one possesses at any given moment and avoiding the tendency to divide the believers into categories such as deepened and uninformed—is an accomplishment of enormous proportions. And therein lie the dynamics of an irrepressible movement.

cont. below…

.

 

[Servant19]

cont…

This complex, irrepressible movement of “infinite complexity and scale” is being sown within village after village, neighbourhood after neighbourhood throughout the globe:

From this landscape of thriving activity, one prospect deserves particular mention. In the message addressed to you three years ago, we expressed the hope that, in clusters with an intensive programme of growth in operation, the friends would endeavour to learn more about the ways of community building by developing centres of intense activity in neighbourhoods and villages. Our hopes have been exceeded, for even in clusters where the programme of growth has not yet achieved intensity, efforts by a few to initiate core activities among the residents of small areas have demonstrated their efficacy time and again. In essence, this approach centres on the response to Baha’u’llah’s teachings on the part of populations who are ready for the spiritual transformation His Revelation fosters. Through participation in the educational process promoted by the training institute, they are motivated to reject the torpor and indifference inculcated by the forces of society and pursue, instead, patterns of action which prove life altering. Where this approach has advanced for some years in a neighbourhood or village and the friends have sustained their focus, remarkable results are becoming gradually but unmistakably evident. **Youth are empowered to take responsibility for the development of those around them **younger than themselves. Older generations welcome the contribution of the youth to meaningful discussions about the affairs of the whole community. For young and old alike, the discipline cultivated through the community’s educational process builds capacity for consultation, and new spaces emerge for purposeful conversation. Yet **change is not confined merely to the Baha’is **and those who are involved in the core activities called for by the Plan, who might reasonably be expected to adopt new ways of thinking over time. The very spirit of the place is affected. A devotional attitude takes shape within a broad sweep of the population. Expressions of the equality of men and women become more pronounced. The education of children, both boys and girls, commands greater attention. The character of relationships within families–moulded by assumptions centuries old–alters perceptibly. A sense of duty towards one’s immediate community and physical environment becomes prevalent. Even the scourge of prejudice, which casts its baleful shadow on every society, begins to yield to the compelling force of unity. In short, the community-building work in which the friends are engaged influences aspects of culture.

• Universal House of Justice Ridvan 2013

The principles for the unification of the human race are complex and require Divine guidance brother. I pray that Catholics and Baha’is can create spaces where effective, non-prejudicial dialogue, reflection and prayer can take place, with the EXPRESS AIM to plan projects and processes which can implement the steps necessary to realise this lofty goal starting from the neighbourhood and extending harmoniously throughout all the other neighbourhoods on the globe.

 

[Servant19]

Dear Servant

If I may ask, could you please read parts (particularly from section 3 onward) of this 2011 document from the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, so that we can discuss this in some depth:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#3._An_Authority_over_Globalization

If you could link me to any Baha’i documents on world government or commonwealth, it would be greatly appreciated

Ostensibly, I think that the Baha’i belief in a collective security arrangement among the world’s nations and a global commonwealth coming into being is substantially similar to Catholic statements of the need for a world political authority to direct globalization and provide stability on the transnational sphere in an increasingly interdependent world.

What is interesting though, is that while Baha’is declare the need for such a commonwealth to come into being, they are not participate in political office holding. Indeed Baha’is relate the creation of a world commonwealth not with the “Most Great Peace” but the preceding “Lesser Peace”, which Baha’is from my reading will not directly create. Am I correct?

What are Baha’is encouraged to do to so as to help the international sphere develop a truly effective judicial and political structure equivalent to the effectiveness of such institutions in the national or domestic sphere?

The Vatican has said:

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20111024_nota_en.html#4._Towards_Reforming_the_International_Financial_and_Monetary_Systems_in_a_way_that_Responds_to_the_Needs_of_all_Peoples

Hi brother

I’m currently in the process of studying this. I will hopefully comment on Friday

In regards to your question relating to the Lesser Peace, I think arthra gave you a good link from the Guardian’s World Order of Baha’u’llah letters. You are correct, the Lesser Peace is not really related to anything the Baha’is are doing, it will happen unknowingly from the billowing winds of grace Baha’u’llah has gifted the world and as I mentioned earlier from the sacrifice of Blessed Mirza Mihdi.

The Baha’is are currently working fervently to create the foundations for the Most Great Peace, and this work is taking place in clusters (geographical divisions) throughout the world. This Most Great Peace has nothing to do with the current political climate but the administrative structures being forged will eventually replace the democratic political arena currently prevalent in Western countries.

In Perth cluster currently we are into our 11th year of intensive program’s of growth and it has now got to the point where those who are not registered Baha’is are at the forefront of doing the work of the Bahai cluster.

Truly amazing to see!

.

 

[eddie_too]

God’s (Jesus’) kingdom is not of THIS world.

follower’s of Jesus are to be in this world but not of this world.

this world can improve only through the free choices of the human beings who live in it.

human beings can only make free choices that improve this world through the grace of God.

this grace is designed to be made most available to human beings through faith in Jesus Christ and the Church Jesus founded.

human government of this world was not intended to be pre-empted by God except through the individual decisions of His human creatures.

any utopianism predicated upon human beings accomplishing it outside of the RCC and its sacraments is nonsense and antithetical to almighty God’s revelations to mankind.

 

[tonyfish58]

God’s (Jesus’) kingdom is not of THIS world.

follower’s of Jesus are to be in this world but not of this world.

this world can improve only through the free choices of the human beings who live in it.

human beings can only make free choices that improve this world through the grace of God.

this grace is designed to be made most available to human beings through faith in Jesus Christ and the Church Jesus founded.

human government of this world was not intended to be pre-empted by God except through the individual decisions of His human creatures.

any utopianism predicated upon human beings accomplishing it outside of the RCC and its sacraments is nonsense and antithetical to almighty God’s revelations to mankind.

Eddie Said - God’s (Jesus’) kingdom is not of THIS world. A Baha’i says Yes

Eddie says - follower’s of Jesus are to be in this world but not of this world. A Baha’i says Yes

Eddie Says - this world can improve only through the free choices of the human beings who live in it. A Baha’i says Yes

Eddie Says - human beings can only make free choices that improve this world through the grace of God. A Baha’i says Yes

Eddie Says - this grace is designed to be made most available to human beings through faith in Jesus Christ and the Church Jesus founded. A Baha’i has no objection to this comment, as it is also found the same way in Gods other Faith’s

Eddie says - human government of this world was not intended to be pre-empted by God except through the individual decisions of His human creatures. A good thought here is God doeth as He Wileth

Eddie Says - any utopianism predicated upon human beings accomplishing it outside of the RCC and its sacraments is nonsense and antithetical to almighty God’s revelations to mankind. Can I suggest that One should study the Bible and look at it with their own eyes and know of their own knowledge as God is the best of all guiders

God bless and regards Tony

 

[Vouthon]

Dear brother Servant

Apologies for my delay in replying, as you know I have been rather unwell of late…

You are correct, the Lesser Peace is not really related to anything the Baha’is are doing, it will happen unknowingly from the billowing winds of grace Baha’u’llah has gifted the world and as I mentioned earlier from the sacrifice of Blessed Mirza Mihdi.

Would the Catholic Church’s social doctrines fall under the “lesser peace” or do you think they are oriented in spirit also to the Most Great Peace?

This Most Great Peace has nothing to do with the current political climate but the administrative structures being forged will eventually replace the democratic political arena currently prevalent in Western countries.

Does this mean that, in the Baha’i view, the administrative order of the faith (the Universal House of Justice) will become the executive of a world government? Susan Maneck, a Baha’i scholar I have dialogued with online in the past, seemed to think that the UHJ would act more as a supreme legislation body, as in how the House of Lords which includes Bishops of the Church of England in Britain acts as the upper house for law in the UK parliament but that the UHJ would not assume an executive role - since political power per se is not the prerogative of religion.

Certainly, in the Catholic context we recognise a distinction between the temporal and the spiritual spheres. Man is created as a composite of body and soul, meaning that there needs must be an authority to govern each. The temporal sphere of government is concerned with the body, whereas the Church rules supreme over the soul and matters of salvation.

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI expressed this in an encyclical in 2009:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

1. In order to define more accurately the relationship between the necessary commitment to justice and the ministry of charity, two fundamental situations need to be considered:

a) The just ordering of society and the State is a central responsibility of politics. As Augustine once said, a State which is not governed according to justice would be just a bunch of thieves: “Remota itaque iustitia quid sunt regna nisi magna latrocinia?”.[18] Fundamental to Christianity is the distinction between what belongs to Caesar and what belongs to God (cf. Mt 22:21), in other words, the distinction between Church and State, or, as the Second Vatican Council puts it, the autonomy of the temporal sphere.[19] The State may not impose religion, yet it must guarantee religious freedom and harmony between the followers of different religions. For her part, the Church, as the social expression of Christian faith, has a proper independence and is structured on the basis of her faith as a community which the State must recognize. The two spheres are distinct, yet always interrelated.

Justice is both the aim and the intrinsic criterion of all politics. Politics is more than a mere mechanism for defining the rules of public life: its origin and its goal are found in justice, which by its very nature has to do with ethics…

Here politics and faith meet. Faith by its specific nature is an encounter with the living God—an encounter opening up new horizons extending beyond the sphere of reason. But it is also a purifying force for reason itself. From God’s standpoint, faith liberates reason from its blind spots and therefore helps it to be ever more fully itself. Faith enables reason to do its work more effectively and to see its proper object more clearly.** This is where Catholic social doctrine has its place: it has no intention of giving the Church power over the State. Even less is it an attempt to impose on those who do not share the faith ways of thinking and modes of conduct proper to faith.** Its aim is simply to help purify reason and to contribute, here and now, to the acknowledgment and attainment of what is just.

The Church’s social teaching argues on the basis of reason and natural law, namely, on the basis of what is in accord with the nature of every human being. It recognizes that it is not the Church’s responsibility to make this teaching prevail in political life. Rather, the Church wishes to help form consciences in political life and to stimulate greater insight into the authentic requirements of justice as well as greater readiness to act accordingly, even when this might involve conflict with situations of personal interest. Building a just social and civil order, wherein each person receives what is his or her due, is an essential task which every generation must take up anew. As a political task, this cannot be the Church’s immediate responsibility. Yet, since it is also a most important human responsibility, the Church is duty-bound to offer, through the purification of reason and through ethical formation, her own specific contribution towards understanding the requirements of justice and achieving them politically.

The Church cannot and must not take upon herself the political battle to bring about the most just society possible. She cannot and must not replace the State. Yet at the same time she cannot and must not remain on the sidelines in the fight for justice. She has to play her part through rational argument and she has to reawaken the spiritual energy without which justice, which always demands sacrifice, cannot prevail and prosper. A just society must be the achievement of politics, not of the Church. Yet the promotion of justice through efforts to bring about openness of mind and will to the demands of the common good is something which concerns the Church deeply.

 

[Servant19]

Dear brother Servant

Apologies for my delay in replying, as you know I have been rather unwell of late…

Would the Catholic Church’s social doctrines fall under the “lesser peace” or do you think they are oriented in spirit also to the Most Great Peace?

Does this mean that, in the Baha’i view, the administrative order of the faith (the Universal House of Justice) will become the executive of a world government? Susan Maneck, a Baha’i scholar I have dialogued with online in the past, seemed to think that the UHJ would act more as a supreme legislation body, as in how the House of Lords which includes Bishops of the Church of England in Britain acts as the upper house for law in the UK parliament but that the UHJ would not assume an executive role - since political power per se is not the prerogative of religion.

Certainly, in the Catholic context we recognise a distinction between the temporal and the spiritual spheres. Man is created as a composite of body and soul, meaning that there needs must be an authority to govern each. The temporal sphere of government is concerned with the body, whereas the Church rules supreme over the soul and matters of salvation.

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI expressed this in an encyclical in 2009:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

Hello brother Vouthon

Of course my patience is always endless, such is your courteous and kind approach to exploring Truth together dear brother. Your health has been on my mind and I assure you the prayers have been coming

In the Writings of Baha’u’llah there are actually 3 stages defining the collective maturation of the human race.

The first is the Lesser Peace (Sulh-i-Asghar) which can generally be defined by a uniting of the nations to work collaboratively and a recognition of global unity on a political scale, the introduction of the principles of collective security and the reduction of armaments.

In answer to your question, if there is any political proposition in regards to the social teachings put forward by the Catholic Faith, then this would relate to the Lesser Peace and its establishment. From the citations you have kindly provided, I sense that this is the case.

The second stage in the maturation of the human race is termed by Baha’u’llah as the Greater Peace (Sulh-i-Akbar). This is basically a “spiritualisation of the masses”, to encapsulate it into a single phrase… Again, I do see many elements of Catholic teaching being touched on by the Greater Peace. The Guardian describes it as thus:

(cont. below)

 

[Servant19]

Over sixty years ago, in His Tablet to Queen Victoria, Bahá’u’lláh, addressing “the concourse of the rulers of the earth,” revealed the following:

“Take ye counsel together, and let your concern be only for that which profiteth mankind and bettereth the condition thereof…. Regard the world as the human body which, though created whole and perfect, has been afflicted, through divers causes, with grave ills and maladies. Not for one day did it rest, nay its sicknesses waxed more severe, as it fell under the treatment of unskilled physicians who have spurred on the steed of their worldly desires and have erred grievously. And if at one time, through the care of an able physician, a member of that body was healed, the rest remained afflicted as before. Thus informeth you the All-Knowing, the All-Wise…. That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This verily is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

In a further passage Bahá’u’lláh adds these words: “We see you adding every year unto your expenditures and laying the burden thereof on the people whom ye rule; this verily is naught but grievous injustice. Fear the sighs and tears of this Wronged One, and burden not your peoples beyond that which they can endure…. Be reconciled among yourselves, that ye may need armaments no more save in a measure to safeguard your territories and dominions. Be united, O concourse of the sovereigns of the world, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you and your peoples find rest. Should any one among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice.”

What else could these weighty words signify if they did not point to the inevitable curtailment of unfettered national sovereignty as an indispensable preliminary to the formation of the future Commonwealth of all the nations of the world? Some form of a world super-state must needs be evolved, in whose favor all the nations of the world will have willingly ceded every claim to make war, certain rights to impose taxation and all rights to maintain armaments, except for purposes of maintaining internal order within their respective dominions. Such a state will have to include within its orbit an international executive adequate to enforce supreme and unchallengeable authority on every recalcitrant member of the commonwealth; a world parliament whose members shall be elected by the people in their respective countries and whose election shall be confirmed by their respective governments; and a supreme tribunal whose judgment will have a binding effect even in such cases where the parties concerned did not voluntarily agree to submit their case to its consideration. A world community in which all economic barriers will have been permanently demolished and the interdependence of Capital and Labor definitely recognized; in which the clamor of religious fanaticism and strife will have been forever stilled; in which the flame of racial animosity will have been finally extinguished; in which a single code of international law—the product of the considered judgment of the world’s federated representatives—shall have as its sanction the instant and coercive intervention of the combined forces of the federated units; and finally a world community in which the fury of a capricious and militant nationalism will have been transmuted into an abiding consciousness of world citizenship—such indeed, appears, in its broadest outline, the Order anticipated by Bahá’u’lláh, an Order that shall come to be regarded as the fairest fruit of a slowly maturing age.

“The Tabernacle of Unity,” Bahá’u’lláh proclaims in His message to all mankind, “has been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers…. Of one tree are all ye the fruit and of one bough the leaves…. The world is but one country and mankind its citizens…. Let not a man glory in that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind.”

Shoghi Effendi - The Goal of a New World Order

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[Servant19]

The final stage is the Most Great Peace (Sulh-i-A’zam) which is effectively unity in its highest form, the fusion of all races, religions, creeds, classes and nations:

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá’u’lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity. A world metropolis will act as the nerve center of a world civilization, the focus towards which the unifying forces of life will converge and from which its energizing influences will radiate. A world language will either be invented or chosen from among the existing languages and will be taught in the schools of all the federated nations as an auxiliary to their mother tongue. A world script, a world literature, a uniform and universal system of currency, of weights and measures, will simplify and facilitate intercourse and understanding among the nations and races of mankind. In such a world society, science and religion, the two most potent forces in human life, will be reconciled, will cöoperate, and will harmoniously develop. The press will, under such a system, while giving full scope to the expression of the diversified views and convictions of mankind, cease to be mischievously manipulated by vested interests, whether private or public, and will be liberated from the influence of contending governments and peoples. The economic resources of the world will be organized, its sources of raw materials will be tapped and fully utilized, its markets will be cöordinated and developed, and the distribution of its products will be equitably regulated.

National rivalries, hatreds, and intrigues will cease, and racial animosity and prejudice will be replaced by racial amity, understanding and cöoperation. The causes of religious strife will be permanently removed, economic barriers and restrictions will be completely abolished, and the inordinate distinction between classes will be obliterated. Destitution on the one hand, and gross accumulation of ownership on the other, will disappear. The enormous energy dissipated and wasted on war, whether economic or political, will be consecrated to such ends as will extend the range of human inventions and technical development, to the increase of the productivity of mankind, to the extermination of disease, to the extension of scientific research, to the raising of the standard of physical health, to the sharpening and refinement of the human brain, to the exploitation of the unused and unsuspected resources of the planet, to the prolongation of human life, and to the furtherance of any other agency that can stimulate the intellectual, the moral, and spiritual life of the entire human race.

A world federal system, ruling the whole earth and exercising unchallengeable authority over its unimaginably vast resources, blending and embodying the ideals of both the East and the West, liberated from the curse of war and its miseries, and bent on the exploitation of all the available sources of energy on the surface of the planet, a system in which Force is made the servant of Justice, whose life is sustained by its universal recognition of one God and by its allegiance to one common Revelation—such is the goal towards which humanity, impelled by the unifying forces of life, is moving.

“One of the great events,” affirms ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, “which is to occur in the Day of the manifestation of that incomparable Branch is the hoisting of the Standard of God among all nations. By this is meant that all nations and kindreds will be gathered together under the shadow of this Divine Banner, which is no other than the Lordly Branch itself, and will become a single nation. Religious and sectarian antagonism, the hostility of races and peoples, and differences among nations, will be eliminated. All men will adhere to one religion, will have one common faith, will be blended into one race and become a single people. All will dwell in one common fatherland, which is the planet itself.” “Now, in the world of being,” He has moreover explained, “the Hand of Divine power hath firmly laid the foundations of this all-highest bounty, and this wondrous gift. Whatsoever is latent in the innermost of this holy Cycle shall gradually appear and be made manifest, for now is but the beginning of its growth, and the dayspring of the revelation of its signs. Ere the close of this century and of this age, it shall be made clear and evident how wondrous was that spring-tide, and how heavenly was that gift.”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-56.html

.

 

[Servant19]

Shoghi Effendi summaries all these stages beautifully here:

To the general character, the implications and features of this world commonwealth, destined to emerge, sooner or later, out of the carnage, agony, and havoc of this great world convulsion, I have already referred in my previous communications. Suffice it to say that this consummation will, by its very nature, be a gradual process, and must, as Bahá’u’lláh has Himself anticipated, lead at first to the establishment of that Lesser Peace which the nations of the earth, as yet unconscious of His Revelation and yet unwittingly enforcing the general principles which He has enunciated, will themselves establish. This momentous and historic step, involving the reconstruction of mankind, as the result of the universal recognition of its oneness and wholeness, will bring in its wake the spiritualization of the masses, consequent to the recognition of the character, and the acknowledgment of the claims, of the Faith of Bahá’u’lláh—the essential condition to that ultimate fusion of all races, creeds, classes, and nations which must signalize the emergence of His New World Order.

Then will the coming of age of the entire human race be proclaimed and celebrated by all the peoples and nations of the earth. Then will the banner of the Most Great Peace be hoisted. Then will the worldwide sovereignty of Bahá’u’lláh—the Establisher of the Kingdom of the Father foretold by the Son, and anticipated by the Prophets of God before Him and after Him—be recognized, acclaimed, and firmly established. Then will a world civilization be born, flourish, and perpetuate itself, a civilization with a fullness of life such as the world has never seen nor can as yet conceive. Then will the Everlasting Covenant be fulfilled in its completeness. Then will the promise enshrined in all the Books of God be redeemed, and all the prophecies uttered by the Prophets of old come to pass, and the vision of seers and poets be realized. Then will the planet, galvanized through the universal belief of its dwellers in one God, and their allegiance to one common Revelation, mirror, within the limitations imposed upon it, the effulgent glories of the sovereignty of Bahá’u’lláh, shining in the plenitude of its splendor in the Abhá Paradise, and be made the footstool of His Throne on high, and acclaimed as the earthly heaven, capable of fulfilling that ineffable destiny fixed for it, from time immemorial, by the love and wisdom of its Creator.

Not ours, puny mortals that we are, to attempt, at so critical a stage in the long and checkered history of mankind, to arrive at a precise and satisfactory understanding of the steps which must successively lead a bleeding humanity, wretchedly oblivious of its God, and careless of Bahá’u’lláh, from its calvary to its ultimate resurrection. Not ours, the living witnesses of the all-subduing potency of His Faith, to question, for a moment, and however dark the misery that enshrouds the world, the ability of Bahá’u’lláh to forge, with the hammer of His Will, and through the fire of tribulation, upon the anvil of this travailing age, and in the particular shape His mind has envisioned, these scattered and mutually destructive fragments into which a perverse world has fallen, into one single unit, solid and indivisible, able to execute His design for the children of men.

Ours rather the duty, however confused the scene, however dismal the present outlook, however circumscribed the resources we dispose of, to labor serenely, confidently, and unremittingly to lend our share of assistance, in whichever way circumstances may enable us, to the operation of the forces which, as marshaled and directed by Bahá’u’lláh, are leading humanity out of the valley of misery and shame to the loftiest summits of power and glory.

Shoghi

To the beloved of God and the handmaids of the Merciful throughout the West.
Haifa, Palestine
March 28, 1941

 

[Servant19]

Now, in terms of Catholic teaching there are plenty of references to the Most Great Peace.

It all starts here:

“…Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and peoples shall flow to it. Many nations shall come and say, “Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, and we shall walk in His paths.” For out of Zion the law shall go forth, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. He shall judge between many peoples, and rebuke strong nations afar off; they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more…”

• Micah 4

And it reaches fruition with Blessed Venerable Bartholomew Holzhauser
(this is me doing a “Vouthon” ):

“…A great change will come to pass, such as no mortal man will have expected…a new mankind will come into existence. God possesses the key to everything. Blessed is he who will then be able to praise him, having obeyed all his commandments. And the great monarch of the world will create new laws for the new mankind and will cause a new age to begin, in which there will be only one flock and one shepherd, and peace will be of long, long duration, for the glory of God in heaven and on earth…The Sixth Age of the Spirit commences with the powerful Monarch and the Holy Pontiff…This will be an age of consolation in which God will console His Spirit of the affliction and the great tribulation of the preceding age. All the nations will be united in the Universal faith. The sacerdocy will flower more than ever, and men will seek the kingdom of God in all solicitude… Many saints and doctors will flourish in the earth. Men will love reason and justice. Peace will reign in all the universe, because the divine power will bind Satan for many years, until the son of perdition will rave anew…It is in that age that the relation of the sixth Spirit of the Lord will be known, that is to say the Spirit of Wisdom that God diffuses over all the surfaces of the globes in those times. For men will fear the Lord their God, they will observe the law and serve it with all their heart. The sciences will be multiplied and complete on the earth. The Holy Scriptures will be unanimously understood, without controversy and without the errors of heresies. Men will be enlightened, so much as in the natural sciences and in the celestial sciences. Finally, the Sixth Church, the Church of Philadelphia, is the type of this sixth age, for Philadelphia signifies friendship of brothers, and again guarding the heritage in union with the Lord. Now all these characters convene perfectly in the sixth age, in which they will have love, concord and perfect peace and in which the powerful Monarch will have to consider almost the entire world as his heritage. He will deliver up the earth, with the aid of the Lord his God from all his enemies, of ruin and of all evil…”

 

[Vouthon]

(this is me doing a “Vouthon” ):

I am glad to see that my posting style of copious quotations is becoming infectious

Excellent references, thank you for bringing them to my attention. The great fourteenth century poet of the Catholic Church, Dante Alighieri wrote a book called in Latin De Monarchia. There are excellent editions that can be bought off amazon cheaply. His arguments still have a freshness despite the medieval thinking and language. He grounds them in the fact that God and nature do nothing in vain, meaning that just as the intellectual faculty in the human soul regulates and directs the other powers, the same should be enacted in the household, the city, the kingdom and all mankind. He argues that everything is created by God with an inherent purpose and that mankind as a whole has a potentiality that no single individual or social group by itself can actualize. This potentiality is the intellectual capacity of the human race, its boundless ability to excel with mental skill and science, and that for it to flourish humankind needs the political unification of the species and universal peace so as to attain this.

He furthermore argues that man is in his most ideal state the closer he resembles or reflects God. Mankind is therefore in a most ideal state the more closely united it is in view of the Unity of God. I think Baha’is would discern a “foretaste” of their own views, in germinal form, in this book.

The Micah passage, and its almost verbatim twin in Isaiah, is an interesting one to consider. The verse “nation shall not lift up sword against nation” in its Isaiah variant is of course etched in stone on the Wall of Peace at the UN headquarters in New York. It presents a powerful image, especially for its time and place in the eighth century BCE Near East, of future peaceful arbitration between states and of the conversion of weapons of war into tools of agriculture. This is remarkable if one considers contemporary texts such as this Assyrian ode to Ashur:

With the mighty power of the god Ashur, my lord, I marched to the land Sugu…I conquered their cities, took their gods, and brought out their booty, possessions and property. I burnt razed and destroyed their cities and turned them into ruin hills…I built up mounds with the corpses

Certainly when you speak of the Most Great Peace as “unity in its highest form, the fusion of all races, religions, creeds, classes and nations”, I am directly reminded of the book De Pace Fidei (On the Peaceful Unity of Faith) which was written by Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa in the fifteenth century. I recently compiled a selection of quotations from him on wikiquote:

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nicholas_of_Cusa

Also, it should be noted that Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave an interview which is much in the same spirit:

"…**Interviewer: **

*John Paul II in his talk before the United Nations in New York in 1995 on the foundations of a new world order, also spoke of a new hope for the Third Millenium. “We shall see,” said the Pope, “that the tears of this century have prepared the ground for a new springtime of the human spirit”. What might he mean by this “springtime”? A new identity of man? *

Pope Benedict XVI:

The Pope does indeed cherish a great expectation that the millenium of divisions will be followed by a millenium of unifications…The emergence of ecumenism at the Second Vatican Council is indeed a sign of a sort of renewed approach to a new unity. It is thus filled with the hope that the millenia have their physiognomy; that all the catastrophes of our century, as the Pope says, will be caught up at the end and turned into a new beginning. Unity of mankind, unity of religions, unity of Christians - we ought to search for these unities again, so that a more positive epoch may really begin. We must have visions…In the history and universe of religions, there is always a great necessity to purify religion so that it does not become an obstacle to the right relation to God but puts man on the right path…In all religions there are men of interior purity who through their myths and beliefs somehow touch the great mystery and find the right way of being human.

**Interviewer: **

*How many ways are there to God? *

**Pope Benedict XVI: **

As many ways as there are people. For even within the same faith each man’s way is an entirely personal one. In that respect there is ultimately one way, and everyone who is on the way to God is therefore in some sense also on the way to Jesus Christ. But this does not mean that all ways are identical in terms of conciousness and will but on the contrary, the one way is so big that it becomes a personal way for each man…We have so much knowledge, so many experiences, and on the other hand we find that faith has been so elaborated upon and oversystematized that access is no longer so easy to come by. I** do think that we need a sort of revolution of faith in many respects…There is a new awareness of solidarity, of responsibility for humanity as a whole, of responsibility for creation. There are movements towards unification…The dialogue with other religions is under way. We are, I think, all convinced that we can learn something, for example, from the mysticism of Asia and that precisely the great mystical traditions also open possibilities of encounter**…The Christian can also find the secret working of God behind them. Through the other religions God touches man and brings him onto the path. But it is always the same God, the God of Jesus Christ…"

***- Pope Benedict XVI, Salt of the Earth (1997 when still Cardinal Ratzinger, republished in 2005 as by the pope) ***

 

[Servant19]

I am glad to see that my posting style of copious quotations is becoming infectious

Excellent references, thank you for bringing them to my attention. The great fourteenth century poet of the Catholic Church, Dante Alighieri wrote a book called in Latin De Monarchia. There are excellent editions that can be bought off amazon cheaply. His arguments still have a freshness despite the medieval thinking and language. He grounds them in the fact that God and nature do nothing in vain, meaning that just as the intellectual faculty in the human soul regulates and directs the other powers, the same should be enacted in the household, the city, the kingdom and all mankind. He argues that everything is created by God with an inherent purpose and that mankind as a whole has a potentiality that no single individual or social group by itself can actualize. This potentiality is the intellectual capacity of the human race, its boundless ability to excel with mental skill and science, and that for it to flourish humankind needs the political unification of the species and universal peace so as to attain this.

He furthermore argues that man is in his most ideal state the closer he resembles or reflects God. Mankind is therefore in a most ideal state the more closely united it is in view of the Unity of God. I think Baha’is would discern a “foretaste” of their own views, in germinal form, in this book.

The Micah passage, and its almost verbatim twin in Isaiah, is an interesting one to consider. The verse “nation shall not lift up sword against nation” in its Isaiah variant is of course etched in stone on the Wall of Peace at the UN headquarters in New York. It presents a powerful image, especially for its time and place in the eighth century BCE Near East, of future peaceful arbitration between states and of the conversion of weapons of war into tools of agriculture. This is remarkable if one considers contemporary texts such as this Assyrian ode to Ashur:

Certainly when you speak of the Most Great Peace as “unity in its highest form, the fusion of all races, religions, creeds, classes and nations”, I am directly reminded of the book De Pace Fidei (On the Peaceful Unity of Faith) which was written by Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa in the fifteenth century. I recently compiled a selection of quotations from him on wikiquote:

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Nicholas_of_Cusa

Also, it should be noted that Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI when he was head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave an interview which is much in the same spirit:

Dear brother, what a wonderful set of insights you provide. I was especially edified and my heart rejoiced upon reading Blessed Nicholas of Cusa’s quotations and life story.

I will look at picking up De Monarchia, it certainly seems right up my alley as they say

From reading all these things, it seems as though there is a case to be made from Catholic teaching that human beings “can” be the agents for the unification of the human race, living under one Divine Law, as One Fold, worshipping One Shepherd, especially with Nicholas of Cusa talking about many different legitimate paths and forms of worship of the One God, and Pope Benedict referring to a new era of ecumenism, a new, positive, epoch of unity etc etc

With this in mind, why do Catholics and Christians as a whole deny the Baha’i Faith the ability to herald this new era of unity, calling it a “utopia of the deluded”?

Thank you for your thoughts brother.

 

[Matthew_Light]

With this in mind, why do Catholics and Christians as a whole deny the Baha’i Faith the ability to herald this new era of unity, calling it a “utopia of the deluded”?

Some Christians claim that Baha’u’llah is wrong, some even claim he was inspired by the Devil.

But many Christians do not view things this way. They have a very open-minded view of other faiths, seeing them as other messages from God. They are in touch with the spirit of the age.

Similarly, some Baha’is think everyone needs to become a Baha’i, or else they are following an old, dead, “expired” religion. And while not necessarily destined for a literal hell, those non-Baha’is are in grave error nonetheless.

Other Baha’is see only one religion - the religion of God, and accept that people are in different denominations of that religion for many very good reasons. God is transforming the whole world - not just Baha’is! Of course God needs broad-minded people receptive to the Holy Spirit in all faiths to achieve His purposes, not confine them to one religion only!

Baha’is and Christians in the second group are worshiping God’s directive for this age - the oneness of the world of humanity, the oneness of God, the end of foreignness, working for peace, service to all people.

I believe that our primary task as Baha’is is to foster the unity of the human race - not by eliminating diversity of belief and practice, but by seeing and sharing our Oneness in God. For now, Baha’is are to be to be leaven, not the bulk of the loaf.

I feel strongly that as that mutual respect and admiration between religious communities becomes the norm over time (instead of enmity and deprecation and even violence, far too common today!) many people will choose to join the Baha’i religion. But becoming Baha’is instead of Christians or Muslims or Buddhists is not the goal. The goal is love and fellowship between the children of humanity.

Those are my thoughts…

 

[Spectator]

The most great peace is progressing. The fact that knowledge of God and His plan for the world, is breaking down barriers of bigotry is a sign of this progress