I’ve asked countless Protestants over the years how they came to choose their denomination. Not once, ever, has anyone ever said “because it’s the truth”. The reasons are always, always external, just as your daughter described. None of those external things matter of you don’t have objective truth. Hopefully she’ll come to realize that one day.
It’s been my experience that those who leave the Church either have no idea what they left and so are easily convinced that the Church teaches things that she doesn’t OR the Church’s high moral standard cramps their style, disallowing them to do something they want. For example, my sister left the Church because she wanted to marry a divorced man. She said the priest “wouldn’t” marry them, not realizing that he couldn’t marry them.Perhaps you should get out more?
This is an individual matter not a Catholic matter. The behavior of individuals within the Church does not effect the truth that is taught.
Again, a matter of the behavior of individuals within the Church that does not effect the truth that is taught.
Catholics claim nothing for the pope that individual Protestants don’t claim for themselves.
something that is absolutely present in the Catholic Church as well. Unfortunately, many Protestants limit the presence of God to what they can personally feel at any given moment.
Wow! That’s really sad!
To be honest, the biggest thing was sacramental graces. To be able to meet Christ on a physical level instead of just a spiritual level was appealing to me.
ahimsaman72: ALL of us converts are like that. That’s why we drive the tepid pew-warmers and cafeteria Catholics nuts! I sat outside the gate for 3 decades until I finally realized that I was living a lie by not making the public declaration. The point is different for each of us.
First, there is an authority that can say this person is wrong. It’s the Holy Bible. This person doesn’t know the meaning of Biblical love and has forsaken Christ’s command to love even his enemy.
Oh, boy, I needed that!
Baptists are Christian too and we, as Catholic Christians, should allways look for the truth in the Baptists theologies (plural!). We should also look at the similarities between Christs Church and the schismatic churches like the Baptisits. Concentrate on the good when you can
Did Jesus found a chidrens program or preach a verbal Gospel? Did Jesus preach from large beutifull buildings or from street corners? Did Jesus wear gold Jewelry and live in mansions? Did Jesus say follow whichever religion has the best social activities and parties? Did Jesus promise us a rose garden and party? Did Jesus say being a Christian would be wearing nice clothes and having 3 meals a day and haveing nothing but great times? The Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses both have great family values and kids programs and social events too! Why not these two Christian sects too? Their more “fun” then the ever changing Baptist faith.
Ask her to study from OT times to modern in that order. Study what the Jews believed and were Scripture came from. Study the early Church and what they believed. Study the “dark” ages and the inquisition using Catholic and protestant sources. Tell her to study Luther and what he believed and how it changed and when and why. Ask Her to study the Baptist faith starting with the “RE”-Baptizers (ANA-Baptists) through todays “RE”-Baptizers(Baptists). Ask her why the Baptists continually change their faith and morals. Ask her if “RE”-baptism is an abomination unto God? Ask her why there are at least 3 Baptist churches with active and practicing homosexual preachers. Ask her why Baptist ministers in one church don’t substitute for a vacationing preacher in another church down the street? Ask her why a Baptist seminary will graduate one preacher as a calvinist and one that is anti calvin and state BOTH are correct and valid theological points? Is there ANY truth that Baptists can stick to? What are the 5 or 6 truths Baptists mostly agree on?
Here is a good site too
Truth is really a difficult concept for us humans. Truth is to be found in many places, wherever God is. Truth has always been truth - our perception of it is the key to understanding.
I’m unclear about your “re-baptism” concept. Can you explain briefly? I would like to know. I know your story about Baptist ministers and vacationing preachers from a previous post.
I think all would agree, both Baptists and Catholics that God saves people. He elects them to salvation. People don’t save themselves.
I believe Baptists and Catholics interpret the Bible literally at times and figuratively at times. So, what’s the point?
I understand your position and can identify with it. Even in the early church in Acts of the Apostles it is apparent very early on that some people distorted Christ’s teachings and taught false gospels, (which Paul mentioned in his epistles). Unfortunately, this person is blinded by his supposed knowledge. And reading what you posted here shows me that he doesn’t speak clearly and lacks some basic english and grammar skills.
Great points.
First, Sherlock, I also must thank you for your thoughtful and kind responses also. I have quite enjoyed and appreciated your posts.
Though the Bible is considered to be the sole source of authority there is a necessary demand that it be treated with care and be approached correctly. As you know, the Bible is a collection of books. There are historical books, poetical books, prophetic books, epistles, books of law, etc. There is alot of information that must be understood. That’s why it is important to have some theological training. Protestant theology comes from interpreting and understanding the basic elements described above.
As for why seminaries do certain things and accept ministers different beliefs I can only guess. I never went to seminary and only know what pastors have told me about it. There are two options for understanding the idea of ministers from the same seminary graduating with different theologies. 1. One of them is a secret “calvinist” or “arminian” or 2. The consensus is that it really doesn’t matter. Truth as has been spoken of so much since visiting this forum is very different for different people. Perception is key here. There is absolute truth - it is found in the person of Christ and His Father and the Holy Spirit.
Of course, everyone claims the truth, but not everyone is right, obviously. I personally believe most truth is relative. Some can understand what God is saying and what is correct - some cannot understand. There can be at least two reasons in my mind. Either sin is in their lives keeping them from seeing the absolute truth or their eyes are kept blind by God’s doing, which again comes back to predestination and election.
If I were the person in charge, I would see no problem with graduating a calvinist or arminian from the same school. Their views are respected for what they are and would be given the freedom to accept either view. Both schools of thought have valid points. This may seem ridiculous and chaotic, but it really isn’t. A good example is the way our American government works. There’s a democratic and republican party. Each have valid points in different areas. It really takes each one to balance the other out. Our government may seem chaotic and slow, but it works. The same can be said for the protestant faith. Hopefully I didn’t muddy the waters more.
God bless…
That’s correct, however I know of Baptists that state they were the origional church founded by Jesus and that ALL other churches broke off from them and are thus non-apostolic! My daughter was even taught this in the AWANA program (which she is still in by the way).
The Baptist do not have the authority from God to delete books of Scripture, however they use the abridged versions of the Bible that the English publishers made in the 1800’s (i.e. KJV). It was the British publishers and men like Luther that delted 7-11+ books from Scripture. The Baptists just accept the 66 book version of the British publishing houses from the 1800’s. A note here, the origional Baptists hated the Kings version of Scripture since it was a political version by a practicing homosexual king. The Baptists used the Geneva Bible origionally from what I’ve seen.
Baptists did not exist in the early Church so they could not have changed it. What they did was to change away from the teachings of the early Church on issues like birth control, marriage, baptism, etc…
Try reading the NT. It is full of examples to be of one mind, one body, one Church, to remain loyal and to avoid schism.
I forgive you for your rude comment as I follow Gods word. I try to write with Love as Jesus taught. (Read 1 Cor 13 for examples of “Love”.) But I can see you cannot yet see through the condridicting Baptist theologie(s). I will pray for you to see and hopefully others here will help to point out flaws in Baptist theologie(s). Grouping all Baptist into one group is like saying all fish in the ocean are alike.
