Differences between Catholic faith and Baptist?

[ahimsaman72]

mercygate:

This must have been unspeakably painful for everyone. And we Catholics think WE’RE the only ones with problems!

Yes. To be clear about this, the woman was “prophesying” which is something we believe ended after the apostles. That was the first mistake. Pastor X should not have let her continue. He was on the fringe of bringing pentecostal beliefs into the fellowship, which was apparent to everyone. He did resign. I went to the business meeting where we as a congregation discussed it. I loved him very much and still do. He was sincere and caring. He made some mistakes. He has always been my favorite. He was and is a good man.

If we are honest with ourselves we will realize that each of us have potential to sin and hurt ourselves and those around us. It happens in the Baptist faith and the Catholic faith. I gave here an example from my Baptist faith. I won’t mention any examples in the Catholic faith.

 

[ahimsaman72]

mayra hart:

The Baptists have existed since the early 17th century, in contrast with the Catholic Church which was founded by Christ upon Peter as recorded in Matthew 16:18. (see the file “History of the Baptists” ). The term “Catholic” which means “universal” was used from a very early date, in connection with the Church with the Successor of Peter as its head. In contrast, the term “Baptist” is not to be found at all in the early centuries. An examination of the writings of the Early Church Fathers will show that the early Church was Catholic in its belief, not Baptist.

The beliefs of Baptists are nowhere to be found in the Early Church. Baptists do not regard themselves as offshoots of the Protestant Revolt of the 16th century; rather they try to trace their origins back to Apostolic times. Baptists sometimes claim St. John the Baptist (more correctly known as St. John the Baptizer) was the first person to baptize, so, they say, the early Church was Baptist, not Catholic. Two responses: first, John did not baptize with the Trinitarian formula, (as required in Matthew 28:19)and second he did not baptize with the Holy Spirit. See John 3:27 , where St John the Baptist replies to those who say everyone is going to Jesus for baptism: “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven”. Also note in Matthew 3:14 we see that John wanted Jesus to baptize him, thus showing the inadequacy of John´s baptism.
So from the point of view of John’s baptism, there can be no claim that the Baptists can trace the lineage of their church back to him as his baptism was only a forerunner of the true Trinitarian Baptism: In any case, there can be no historical connection established linking the Baptists with the early Church. A study of the early Church writings demolish any such claims of the Baptists. bless you all

First, let me point out a logical error. Just because the “Catholic faith” is older, doesn’t make it the correct one. Buddhism was 500 years before Christianity. You wouldn’t say Buddhism is correct, would you? No.

You’ve given statements for which you give no evidence. Baptists claim this, Baptists claim that…but you don’t give any examples for your sources. I’m assuming you made some of them up - right?

 

[mercygate]

ahimsaman72:

If we are honest with ourselves we will realize that each of us have potential to sin and hurt ourselves and those around us. It happens in the Baptist faith and the Catholic faith. I gave here an example from my Baptist faith. I won’t mention any examples in the Catholic faith.

Heh, heh. You don’t have to. Plenty of other people are standing in line for the privilege – and there’s no lack of material!

 

[ahimsaman72]

Sherlock:

It’s a very good motto. It might surprise you, however, that I see it as being exemplified by the Catholic Church (with its theologically unified but very different rites) more than by Protestantism. That motto is a pretty good summation of why I am a Catholic and left Protestantism: I just didn’t see any unity in the essentials. What was considered “essential” to my Lutheran friends was not considered as such by the Baptist church I attended.For example, the Real Presence in the Eucharist—the Lutheran understanding is very, very different from some other Protestant denominations. Ditto with Baptism. I could go on… I also went to some Evangelical churches and “non-denominational” churches, and found different ideas there about what was essential. Also, some denominations I encountered showed very little liberty in non-essentials: for example, I knew those who preached that the the earth was created in a literal seven-day period, each day being a literal 24-hour day. ANY suggestion of anything different was met with thunder and brimstone. I found the Catholic Church’s view on this to be refreshingly sensible: the Church doesn’t take a position on this, and people are free to believe in a literal seven 24-hour days, or that a “day” in God’s mind may mean billions of years, etc. The Church insists on the essential—God created the universe. Another example of a non-essential that had a Baptist friend up in arms was immersion vs. sprinkling—there was no liberty and no charity there. I’m afraid that we’ll have to agree to disagree here (I simply do not believe that truth is relative), but I have enjoyed our discussion, and have appreciated your posts. God bless.

As the gospel is summed up very well by Paul in I Cor. 15:1-20 I would give that as essential to the Christian faith.

I agree that the Catholic church has a sensible approach to taking positions. However, I could posit that Catholics then do the same thing that protestants do.

Since, as you state above, that the Catholic church doesn’t take a position on whether the creation was a literal 24 hour day or not, but leaves it up to the individual person, why are protestants belittled because we leave interpretation up to an individual when the Catholic church does the same thing? It seems hypocritical.

Whereas the Catholic Church doesn’t take specific stances on some issues (like spoken of above), protestants delve deep into those issues and will definitively state something as true or false. Protestants are accused of relativism, but I see the Catholic Church being relative, while protestants define what is true and not true. They may not agree, but at least they make that decision.

 

[ahimsaman72]

mercygate:

Heh, heh. You don’t have to. Plenty of other people are standing in line for the privilege – and there’s no lack of material!

So, we can agree that both Baptists and Catholics sin (because we are sinners) and make their professed faith look bad?

 

[FightingFat]

mercygate:

I don’t know of **any **well catechized Catholic who EVER became Baptist (or Protestant of any kind). Once people start questioning and learning their faith they come to Rome for the fullness of the faith.

Here’s one Mercygate- bereanbeacon.org/articles_new.htm

 

[mercygate]

FightingFat:

Here’s one Mercygate- bereanbeacon.org/articles_new.htm

Thanks, Fighter. There’s another prominent anti-Catholic out there also, Bart Brewer, who was also a Priest. Unlike Richard Bennett of bereanbeacon, he didn’t suffer a traumatic head injury (!?), but he did have issues with celibacy. I don’t dismiss these anti-Catholic missions lightly because they reflect deep personal hurt of some kind, somehow focused in the Church, and this should be something that concerns every Catholic – even though in some cases the stated reasons for the disaffection ring of immaturity and are often somewhat bizarre.

But this kind of crusader isn’t the sort of person I was referring to in my comment. The original question was about a young woman who wants to go to the Baptist church because they have good social programs, and her mother was wondering what the stakes are. My garden-variety experience tells me that if this young woman is looking to switch because of THAT, then something is missing in her catechesis.

 

[Malachi4U]

Malachi4U:

…Your…interpretation of my statement{proved to be not what I meant}. I am here and available for you to ask questions of just as Jesus was available to the apostles for questions…I suggest that on my posts and others here you ask questions of the poster…

BLOOPER ALERT!!!
On my post I do believe I used some ambiguous grammer . I in no way meant to compare my knowledge of Christianity to that of Jesus . What I wanted/meant to say was that I could be asked questions of my posts just as Jesus was available for for His apostles to have questions asked about His “verbal” Gospel. To avoid wrongfull-interpretation Jesus explained His parables to His apostles for years and they still did not understand what He meant and continued to ask questions till the end. Even the apostles after years with Jesus, the Master Himself, still failed to be able to self-interpret His Gospel and Tradition on all things.

If you have questions about what “I” post please feel free to ask questions of me. If you want to ask questions of Jesus then you can do that in prayer. One thing I learned when I left the Baptist sect after 27 years in various protestant sects was to admit when I’m wrong or ambiguous. I was most definitly ambiguous in that post. My apologies to all if you miss-interpreted my intent.

I would suggest to everyone to occassionally look at your past posts to try and improve on your writting skills as I have done here. I do not have internet conections at home and have to compose my posts on breaks at work. As a result I sometimes write too fast.

Perhaps we could start a thread on posts that were worded poorly? It might be humerous and helpfull if some of us get flustered or bent out of shape? I suppose I could be the scape goat! (Good thing I didn’t say “I could be the sacrifical lamb”? Comparing myself to Jesus once is enough for me.)

 

[SoonerSweetie]

ahimsaman72:

As a life-long baptist I can honestly say I’ve never heard anyone call a catholic a “non-Christian”. My pastors have always taught that people from all walks of life and many denominations would make it to heaven, including catholics. .

tee hee! too funny. The Southern Baptist convention has a guide for “evanglizing” to these unsaved Catholics. You can check it out here.

sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enamb%2Enet%2Fevangelism%2Fiev%2Fdownloads%2Fcatholicism%2Epdf&key=catholic&title=020680+PT+Web+Guide+Roman+Cath&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

it’s in a pdf format.

 

[ahimsaman72]

SoonerSweetie:

tee hee! too funny. The Southern Baptist convention has a guide for “evanglizing” to these unsaved Catholics. You can check it out here.

sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enamb%2Enet%2Fevangelism%2Fiev%2Fdownloads%2Fcatholicism%2Epdf&key=catholic&title=020680+PT+Web+Guide+Roman+Cath&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

it’s in a pdf format.

This is a prayer guide that clearly states the reasons for praying for Catholics. We each have to come to the table. The Catechism shows us as seperated brethren. The Baptist Faith and Message document, which is the official teaching document for Southern Baptists shows no bias towards Catholics.

Obviously, any group such as the Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Catholics are looked upon as different because of the deep divide in authority. Baptists claim total commitment to the Bible, whereas Mormons, JW’s and Catholics do not. You would agree.

Here also is a clip from the the Convention itself. It shows the reaching out of a Baptist church in Texas to their fellow Catholics.
Here it is: sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebpnews%2Enet%2Fbpnews%2Easp%3FID%3D10845&key=catholics&title=Baptists+reach+Catholics+by+finding+common+ground+%2D+%28BP%29&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

 

[ahimsaman72]

SoonerSweetie:

tee hee! too funny. The Southern Baptist convention has a guide for “evanglizing” to these unsaved Catholics. You can check it out here.

sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enamb%2Enet%2Fevangelism%2Fiev%2Fdownloads%2Fcatholicism%2Epdf&key=catholic&title=020680+PT+Web+Guide+Roman+Cath&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

it’s in a pdf format.

Whether you like it or believe it, my statement above is true regardless of what the link you posted says.

 

[ahimsaman72]

SoonerSweetie:

tee hee! too funny. The Southern Baptist convention has a guide for “evanglizing” to these unsaved Catholics. You can check it out here.

sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Enamb%2Enet%2Fevangelism%2Fiev%2Fdownloads%2Fcatholicism%2Epdf&key=catholic&title=020680+PT+Web+Guide+Roman+Cath&ndx=SBC%2C+IMB%2C+NAMB%2C+ANNUITY%2C+LIFEWAY%2C+WMU%2C+ERLC%2C+SEMINARIES

it’s in a pdf format.

Originally Posted by ahimsaman72
As a life-long baptist I can honestly say I’ve never heard anyone call a catholic a “non-Christian”. My pastors have always taught that people from all walks of life and many denominations would make it to heaven, including catholics. .

Whether you like it or believe it, my statement here is true, regardless of the link you posted.

 

[Malachi4U]

SoonerSweetie:

tee hee! too funny. The Southern Baptist convention has a guide for “evanglizing” to these unsaved Catholics. You can check it out here…

SoonerSweetie,

I was in a Baptist church in Manford Oklahoma about 20 years ago. The preacher there preached on the evils of the Catholic Church from the pulpit. The young lady I was dating at the time went with me to a Catholic Church one time just to see what it was like. When we returned to the Baptist church the young lady kept leaning over to me and wispering in my ear - so her parents could not hear it - “He’s lying!” The preacher lied about Catholics weekly! (It would not be lying if the preacher did not know the truth, then it would only be speaking out of ignorance. Either way he should not have done it.) That preacher cut down Catholics week after week year after year.

I also went to a Baptist church in Tooele UT. The preacher there insults Mormons and those pesky Catholics almost weekly. It just makes his day to yell and wave his hands and condemn Catholics and Mormons. In the AWANA program my kids are still in there, the instructors DO cut down Catholics weekly. My daughter is taught that the Catholic Church is exactly what is claimed at jesus-is-lord.com They know I’m out of state and try to brainwash her weekly. (They call it “saving” her?) My daughter who has been in CCD classes for only a few months at most, asked my wife to stop taking her to AWANA meetings. My daughter is fed up with all the ludicrous things she is taught:whacky: . My 12 year old daughter realized this on her own! Praise God! I might add that I have been 1,200 miles away from my daughter for over 4 months. I also only teach generic Christianity to her since my wife is still troubled by Catholicism.

Anyway, I have only been to one Baptist church in 27 years that did not insult and condemn Catholics. That was in Stillwater OK about 25 years ago and that preacher went and got himself fired! I guess he wasn’t Brimstone and Fire enough for the Southern Baptists. I consider him one of the best preachers I ever met. He was loved by the members of the church but the SBC or local organisation of preachers forced him out - not the memebers of his church. So I guess the Baptist church organizations do have some power over preachers?

This is ALL firsthand experience.

 

[mercygate]

Malachi4U:

I might add that I have been 1,200 miles away from my daughter for over 4 months. I also only teach generic Christianity to her since my wife is still troubled by Catholicism.

Malachi,
I see on your profile that you are (or were) in the Military: :tiphat: Thank you, Malachi! Is that why you are 1200 miles from your daughter? (Personal information isn’t allowed here, so don’t answer that if you don’t wish to.) You sound like a great dad and a good husband, too.

I guess there are Baptists, and then there are Baptists: Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist in Washington, D.C. is an exceptional preacher.

 

[Malachi4U]

mercygate:

Malachi,
I see on your profile that you are (or were) in the Military: :tiphat: Thank you, Malachi! Is that why you are 1200 miles from your daughter? (Personal information isn’t allowed here, so don’t answer that if you don’t wish to.) You sound like a great dad and a good husband, too.

I guess there are Baptists, and then there are Baptists: Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist in Washington, D.C. is an exceptional preacher.

I am retired military and we thank you for your support. I work for the Government and thus I am moving. The family just has not caught up yet.

I am glad you mention positive things about the Baptists. I love them and some of the nicest Christians I ever met were Baptist. Heck, my wife is Baptist! (Mostly anyway. 1/2 Baptist + 1/2 Pentacostal, whoa!) Like all religions there are good and bad members.

On this particular thread we are trying to discuss the difference in beliefs and therefore seem to concentrate on that aspect, the negative Baptist opinions. If that offends someone then they should view another thread. Now I do think it would be a good idea for someone to start a thread on all the positive aspects of the Baptist faith and similarities in it with ours. This thread might seem negative and a positive thread could help even out the threads and calm ill-tempers of those whom forget what started this thread.

We are all brothers and should act that way! (I mean brother like in the Bible with Jesus and all His brothers like James, etc… Not siblings but just all sons and daughters of God. After all, Jesus had no siblings.)

 

[ahimsaman72]

For the record, I am perfectly willing to discuss the differences between the Catholic and Baptist faith as that was what this thread was based upon. What I refuse to do is let people post false ideologies and mislead others who don’t know the facts about the said Baptist faith. I will rebuke and/or exhort all who seek to defame such faith at others’ expense.

We should be truthful and respectful and seek to answer and debate topics with the best of our ability without having an agenda to defame or mislead those seeking honest answers. What I continue to see is people with the agenda of harming the Baptist faith.

I have no intention of leaving this thread unless a moderator decides to kick me out, which is their right and privilege.

 

[Malachi4U]

**Here are a few exerpts from the site SoonerSweetie recommended. WHOA! What a bunch of bias…

"PRAYING FOR YOUR ROMAN CATHOLIC FRIENDS**…

North American Mission Board, SBC

**Day 1:…Pray that unsaved Catholic people will hunger for the truth of the gospel, and look beyond traditions and works for salvation…

Day 2:…Pray that the Lord will open a door for witnessing opportunities among those locked behind the closed religious system of the Catholic Church …

Day 3:**…**The Catholic Church preaches a gospel that adds requirements for salvation. In addition to faith, Catholics must fulfill all the requirements of the Church—including the sacraments. Pray that your Catholic friend will put his or her trust in Jesus alone for salvation…

Day 4:The Catholic Church teaches that through the sacrament of baptism, infants are forgiven of original sin when a priest pours water over them—though there is no biblical evidence to support this assertion. Pray for your Catholic friend to see the need to make a personal decision for Christ …":tsktsk:

Coloring mine!

Talk about outright lies and deception! The people who wrote this tripe should be ashamed of themselves. To try and defend this outright condemnation of Catholics and Christs body is a shame. This is a perfect example of the SBC belief towards Catholics. This statement is so full of lies and hatred it could have been written by Jack Chick or posted on jesus-is-lord.com

All you can do is pray for the missled who really believe these false prophets who wrote this. The sad thing is there is a lot more at that site too! That site is a perfect example on how Satan tries to misslead us humans.

OK, it angered me a bit to read that trash and to know many Baptists believe it. I know, I went to church with them. Now I need to step back and breath slowly and remeber and say to myself that Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too… Sometimes love is not easy but it is our greatest gift and these people need our love so lets be Christian and share it with them. Lets also say a prayer to Blessed Mary to intervene on their behalf to help lead them to truth. They are our brothers.

 

[ahimsaman72]

**
Here are a few exerpts from the site SoonerSweetie recommended. WHOA! What a bunch of bias…**

"PRAYING FOR YOUR ROMAN CATHOLIC FRIENDS…

North American Mission Board, SBC

**Day 1:…Pray that unsaved Catholic people will hunger for the truth of the gospel, and look beyond traditions and works for salvation…

Day 2:…Pray that the Lord will open a door for witnessing opportunities among those locked behind the closed religious system of the Catholic Church …

Day 3:**…**The Catholic Church preaches a gospel that adds requirements for salvation. In addition to faith, Catholics must fulfill all the requirements of the Church—including the sacraments. Pray that your Catholic friend will put his or her trust in Jesus alone for salvation…

Day 4:The Catholic Church teaches that through the sacrament of baptism, infants are forgiven of original sin when a priest pours water over them—though there is no biblical evidence to support this assertion. Pray for your Catholic friend to see the need to make a personal decision for Christ …":tsktsk:

Coloring mine!

Talk about outright lies and deception! The people who wrote this tripe should be ashamed of themselves. To try and defend this outright condemnation of Catholics and Christs body is a shame. This is a perfect example of the SBC belief towards Catholics. This statement is so full of lies and hatred it could have been written by Jack Chick or posted on jesus-is-lord.com

All you can do is pray for the missled who really believe these false prophets who wrote this. The sad thing is there is a lot more at that site too! That site is a perfect example on how Satan tries to misslead us humans.

OK, it angered me a bit to read that trash and to know many Baptists believe it. I know, I went to church with them. Now I need to step back and breath slowly and remeber and say to myself that Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too, Baptists are Christian too… Sometimes love is not easy but it is our greatest gift and these people need our love so lets be Christian and share it with them. Lets also say a prayer to Blessed Mary to intervene on their behalf to help lead them to truth. They are our brothers.

It is quite clear you have some problems to deal with here. I will leave - considering that possibly my presence here has caused this. It is truly unfortunate and I lovingly withdraw from it.

I love you all and hope to see you around the corner on another thread.

I had no intention of leaving, but when I saw this, it was apparent that this is too explosive and is not worth losing brotherhood over.
Goodbye and God bless.

 

[Malachi4U]

Oh, I forgot to add to my last post. Most Baptists condemn repetition of prayers as “vain”. They then turn around and ask their followers to perform repetitous prayer as proven in that post.:bigyikes: So I guess that proves repetitous prayer is not in “vain” and thus supports the Catholic Church position on repetitous prayer. Prayer is only “vain” when the one saying it makes it so.

 

[dhgray]

Malachi4U,

First of all, to group all Baptists together under the SBC umbrella, would be like saying all Catholics support John Kerry.
NOW let’s look at this thing:****
**

"PRAYING FOR YOUR ROMAN CATHOLIC FRIENDS

…**I AGREE, WE SHOULD ALL PRAY FOR EACH OTHER.
*

Day 1:…Pray that unsaved Catholic people will hunger for the truth of the gospel, and look beyond traditions and works for salvation…*WE ALL NEED TO PRAY for the unsaved Catholic people. When was the last time you prayed that John Kerry would “hunger for the truth”?

Day 2:…Pray that the Lord will open a door for witnessing opportunities among those locked behind

the closed religious system of the Catholic Church …WE ALL NEED TO PRAY a door for witnessing opportunities among those of the Catholic Church. Pope John Paul II told us that it is EVERY CATHOLIC responsibility and duty eo evangalize. As a Catholic-Christian Evangalist, I teach Catholics (and anyone else who will listen) how to have a personal relationship with Christ. Too many times I hear a Cradle Catholic say, “I don’t need this because I’m Catholic.” They could never me more wrong. Many Catholics have replaced Christ with the Sacraments when in fact the Sacraments were inteneded to keep us focused on him.

Day 3:…

The Catholic Church preaches a gospel that adds requirements for salvation. In addition to faith, Catholics must fulfill all the requirements of the Church—including the sacraments. Pray that your Catholic friend will put his or her trust in Jesus alone for salvation…WE ALL NEED TO PRAY that our friends do put their trust in Jesus alone. Grace with a foundation prepared by God and in accordance with the work of the Spirit. 1960 IT IS BY GRACE ALONE that we are saved. The saceaments are meant to help us stay in Grace with God.

Day 4:

The Catholic Church teaches that through the sacrament of baptism, infants are forgiven of original sin when a priest pours water over them—though there is no biblical evidence to support this assertion. Pray for your Catholic friend to see the need to make a personal decision for Christ …"WE ALL NEED TO PRAY that our friends do develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. From

Revelation 3:20,
Listen! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and have dinner with him, and he with Me.

The Baptists may be on to something many of us have over looked … WE ALL NEED TO PRAY!