Differences between Catholic faith and Baptist?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Carole
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
One area that I am convinced of is that Sola Scriptura, if it was meant to be promulgated by the apostles, had not been adequately set forth in scripture. All we have are a few references that seem to indicate that the apostles might have intended for scripture to become the sole authority. But considering the leeway that some passages allow for, and the leeway that protestant scholars assign to other similarly worded passages regarding other doctrines, I see no basis to come away with sola scriptura from any bible verses or combination of verses. In fact, I see apostolic authority being passed on to others in a much clearer sense than being passed on to scripture. It is still possible that I am unaware of some hidden key to all of this, but given the time and energy that I have put into understanding this, and the many reasons I had for not becoming Catholic (let the reader understand) I definitely had a vested interest in finding out what these hidden support for sola scriptura were. It seems to me that people hang tenously to sola scriptura, not because they see any support for it, but rather because their understanding of apostolic authority stems primarily from heavy-handed popes and bishops in years past. Putting it all into perspective, apostolic tradition or teaching as handed down over the centuries has kept Christianity remarkably well on course; it is only in the last 500 years that we have seen any significant departure from Orthodox Christianity and this is far and way primarily due to the Protestant theology. Nevertheless we are co-combatants in the Church militant here and now and we have much to gain our alliance as Christians working for values we have in common.
Even though Baptists believe in sola scriptura there is much we can accomplish with them before Jesus comes again.
 
to malachia 4u: thank you for your info that’s is so truth living in texas an after having the experience of attending a baptist bible study, now a lot of the things make sense. specially about the dancing that’s why my neighbor will criticized dirty dancing, and about the praying to the saints. any way thank you. god bless you.🙂
 
mayra hart:
to malachia 4u: thank you for your info that’s is so truth living in texas an after having the experience of attending a baptist bible study, now a lot of the things make sense. specially about the dancing that’s why my neighbor will criticized dirty dancing, and about the praying to the saints. any way thank you. god bless you.🙂
Click to expand...
Thank you mayra.
 
Question: Most Baptist churches require that members abstain from alcohol. Is this Biblical?

Not really. Most Baptist churches do in fact require their members to abstain from wine and other alcoholic beverages. In doing so, they stand in direct contradiction of the Biblical instruction, “let no man judge you in food or in drink” (Col. 2:16), and expose their requirement of abstinence as a “doctrine of men” (Col. 2:22) from which Christians ought rightly to be set at liberty.

Baptists will point to Paul’s comment that *“it is good to neither eat meat nor drink wine” *(Ro. 14:21), but do they require their members to abstain from meat as well? To do otherwise is hypocrisy! More discerning Baptists will point out that Paul goes on to say that “it is good to neither eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles,” and thence claim that they insist on abstinence in order to prevent their brothers from stumbling. But they forget that Paul also counsels, *“Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has received him” *(Ro. 14:3). What’s more, in practice, some Baptists use the consumption of alcohol as a test by which to discriminate sinner from saint, and saved from unsaved. And this is not causing one’s brother to stumble! Have they forgotten Paul’s admonition *“why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother?” *(Ro. 14:10).

Do Baptists wish to make a sinner of our Lord Jesus Christ, who both made wine (Jo. 2:3-10) and drank wine (Mat. 11:19, Lk. 7:34)? Did Jesus come to cause the Christian to stumble? Out of the question! Do the Baptists forget that the Apostle Paul counseled his protégé Timothy to drink wine (1 Tim. 5:23)?

Some Baptists will point out that they, as a church, seek to follow the example of John the Baptist, who did not drink wine. Do they forget that the baptism of John the Baptist was superseded by the baptism of Jesus Christ (John 3:22-4:2, Acts 19:3-5), who made and drank wine, and whose disciples drank wine?

Finally, Baptists make themselves, and by implication Christ, a target of mockery by imposing such a requirement on their members. For example:

Question -* “What are the principal differences between the religions?” *Answer - “Jews don’t recognize Jesus, Protestants don’t recognize the Pope, and Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store.”

http://members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/barJohn10_14.gif
 
mayra hart,

I do believe you just proved the pen mightier then the sword!:clapping:

You struck a bullseye with that last post.

I’ll toast to it tonight while in the hot tub with my fermented ‘grape juice’.

GR8 JOB!
 
Do Catholics Reject the Priesthood of Believers?

http://members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/Peter-2.jpg

Question: Baptists believe in the priesthood of believers; do Catholics reject this by having their priests?

No, of course not. This silly and untrue claim is made only by fundamentalists who have never bothered to study New Testament Greek. The New Testament, of course, uses the word ‘hiereus’ to refer to the Old Testament office of “priest” (e.g., Heb. 10:11), and ‘presbyteros’ to refer to the New Testament office of “elder” (e.g., 1 Pet. 5:1). The Church traces the Christian office of “priest” not to the temple priesthood (‘hierateia’) of the Old Testament, but rather to the New Testament presbyteriate (‘presbyterion’). This is in fact underscored by the etymology of the English word ‘priest’, which comes from the Greek ‘presbyteros’ => Latin *‘presbyter’ *=> Old English *‘preost’ *=> Middle English ‘preist’.

Now, this is one reason that informed Catholics tend to giggle every time a fundamentalist informs us that 1 Peter 2:5, 9 constitutes Biblical reproof of the Christian priesthood. Sadly, all that fundamentalist has done is display a magnificent ignorance of the original Greek text of the Bible, since 1 Peter 2:5, 9 discusses the ‘hierateuma hagion’ and the ‘basileion hierateuma’, which is to say it alludes to the old temple priesthood (‘hierateia’). This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Christian priesthood (‘presbyterion’) of the New Covenant.

http://members.aol.com/uticacw/baptist/barJohn10_14.gif
 
Programs and fellowship are nice, but are they really worth more than having someplace to park your personal charm and chatter outside for an hour and just merge into the throng at the feet of the truly present Christ? So much evangelical busyness just brings the world into the church instead of vice versa, the goal being to get people to spend all their time in church-related activities instead of equipping them to go out into the world and serve God in family, vocation, and society. Also, most Baptist and other evangelical churches nowadays are heavily influenced in music, spirituality, etc. by the Vineyard and other highly unorthodox pentecostal ministries. Unfortunately this is especially true of some of their children’s programs.
 
Paul Pignal:
I forget who said it first but it surly applies; " To study history is to cease being a Protestant." I hope this helps.Peace
Paul
Click to expand...
It was, I believe, John Henry Cardianl Newman, a great convert.
 
I was raised a Southern Baptist in a small NE Texas town, accepted Jesus at the age of 7 and was baptized, grew up very involved in my church, then attended Baylor University in Waco, Texas (the BUCKLE on the Bible Belt!). I converted to Catholicism at the age of 26. There is much that I teasure about my Baptist upbringing: committed faith, strong emphasis on Bible study, well-prepared sermons (our priests could learn a thing or two!), the hymns (Glory and Praise and *The Music Issue *do NOT compare). While it is true that not all Baptists are the same, WE were a fairly anti-Catholic bunch. A our saintly pastor wasn’t, though he looked a little stunned when I told him that I had converted to RC. My grandparents weren’t rabid, though they thought some Catholic practices were “funny.” Our YOUTH DIRECTORS, however!!! They used to go on and on about Catholicism and the possibility that the Pope might be the anti-Christ. I was taught to pray for the conversion of Catholics. I wouldn’t allow my minor child to attend any thing to which I was not able to accompany him or her and explain things. By and large, unless things have radically changed, Southern Baptists think that WE are lost, the Pope might be the anti-Christ, and the Catholic Church is the Great Whore of Babylon.
 
My daughter is considering being Baptist. When asked why, she describes their wide range of children’s programs, a large and beautiful building, and social contacts. I have encouraged her to thoroughly research the faith first
Click to expand...
Everbody seems to have good advise to this post.

But, I may be able to offer something a little bit different. This is from my own experience about me as I was growing up. I was a junior in high school and met many baptist friends. I was a cradle catholic, attended church regularly on my own, but probably slept too much during the mass. I was captivated by the youth programs and excitement of my peers to the faith. I even attended Baptist sermons and rallys, heck I even testified and was saved! BUT, all the while I remembered 2 THINGS my mother told me. (of course I didnt really take it to heart at the time). My mother told me it was OK to attend other churchs, but I was required to still attend MASS with her. I promised her I would. (2nd, she also told me to marry a catholic girl. The best advice I ever could have gotten.) As I walked on both sides of the street, I developed a greater appreciation for the church and the mass. I dont think it would have happened If I had not seen the other side of things. I ever so slowly stopped attending other churches and developed conviction in the catholic church, ON MY OWN. You cannot force her, that may only push her away. but you may get a promise from her, if she honors you, she will keep it. no matter what direction that leads her. My mother has passed, I never got to thank her. But I will never forget how she handled it. gracefully.
 
I am in RCIA.
And I am a member of a predominantly Black Baptist Church.
Aside from that, I have been in other protestant Churches.
I think I have a pretty good perspective of differences.

a) Baptists don’t have Bishops. Each Chuch stands somewhat on its own. There are “Baptist Conventions”. I suppose a Baptist minister can ordain another Baptist to be a minister – although it would probably only be done in agreement with the Church’s deacons. Catholics have an organized hierarchy. A Baptist Church can become “off focus” in one or more areas. And if the Church’s minister and deacons are all “off focus” they may only be corrected by other Baptist Churches in a nearby town. And perhaps they won’t listen.

b) Catholics have the “Communion of the Saints”. We can look to and pray to dead Saints. Baptists don’t. This is still something I am learning. I now strongly sense the involvement of certain saints in my life (although Fulton Sheen isn’t canonized yet).

c) The Holy Eucharist. Jesus is present. Catholics have Eucharistic Adoration, Holy Hour. To me this is so beautiful. And I learn so much during Eucharistic Adoration. I suppose Baptists would now think I really am nuts to say I’m learning something when they must figure nothing is going on.

d) Incense. It takes some getting used to. I coughed a lot the first time I sang along with a congregational hymn when the incense was burning. But I like it. It helps me to understand God is really present.

e) Baptists have Sunday School. All you Catholics should think about that. But you do have various religious education programs. Probably the Catholic “New Member” education – RCIA – is more thorough than most Baptist “New Member” classes. Even more thorough than what most Baptist New Converts (i.e. previously heathen) would receive.

f) Bibles. I am now convinced that certain Protestant versions of the Bible are slightly influenced by translators’ theological perspectives. Even so, most conservative Bible translations are not a really big problem because most of the truth is there. But Bible footnotes can be especially influenced by theological perspective. And Catholics have the deuterocanonical books.

g) Justice. Example: if you are a Southern Baptist and mess up, you could just go to a different town. And join a different church. Perhaps just be a Baptist instead of a Southern Baptist. You could get divorced and re-married. Who is going to do anything about it? At worst, you won’t be chosen to be a deacon. Perhaps Roman Catholics have a better justice system. But it may be overworked.

h) Scandals. No difference. Churches can have scandals. My local Roman Catholic Diocese probably has less scandal than the Baptist Churches in the same geographical area.

i) Church attendance. Catholics – don’t miss Church on Sunday unless you have a mighty good reason. Baptists – skipping a few Sundays now and then often goes without notice in my church.

j) 10 commandments. Catholics consider this grave matter. Breaking any of these with full knowledge and consent is a Mortal Sin. Baptists consider sin is sin. Baptists pray to God for forgiveness. To a Baptist, 1 John 1:9 confession is private and in prayer to God. To a Catholic, I suppose 1 John 1:9 confession is in the confessional telling a Priest and receiving absolution.

CONTINUING
 
CONTINUED

k) Prayer Time. In Baptist Churches this can vary a lot. In my own Baptist Church, we have a designated time of prayer during each worship service. Often, people go forward and hold hands.

l) Singing. I suppose that predominantly-White Baptist Churches and Roman Catholic Churches are similar. The music is part of the worship service, but it does not often play a keynote part. In many predominantly-Black Baptist Churches, the special music often does play a keynote part. In fact, I suppose God in His infinite mercy may have created a substitute means of allowing us to experience His Presence. When we sing high praise to God in our Baptist Churches, I sometimes feel His Holy Presence. In fact I suppose it may be similar to Eucharistic Adoration. In Pentacostal Churches, I’ve heard it said that “God inhabits the praise of His people.” I’ve been trying to find a Bible reference for that. I suppose God is merciful to many Black Churches in America. In many cases, Black slaves adopted the religion of their owners. And many descendents remain in the Church of their mothers or fathers. Many in my Baptist Church are 4th generation members of the exact same Church.

m) Mary (mother of Jesus). Mary probably works hard for those in Baptist Churches, but gets little thanks for it. In Catholic Churches, Mary is able to do so much more.

n) Greetings. Catholics show a sign of peace. Baptist Churches often have a similar time to greet your neighbor.

o) Funerals. Baptists don’t worry so much about purgatory. However, educated Baptists are aware that there is a judgement of works that awaits every Christian. Catholics and Baptists are both in agreement that all those who go through that specific judgement of works are “saved” and destined for heaven.

p) Heaven. Many Protestants are blind to the fact that we will not all have the same rewards in heaven. I think Catholics understand it better.

q) Clergy. Often, the pastor of a Protestant Church will be making a fairly good salary. In fact, I think some go into the ministry because of the money. In the Catholic Church, I suppose there are only valid spiritual reasons why somebody would want to be a Catholic Priest. This is so comforting to me. I suppose the average Catholic Priest is much more honest with their parishioners.
 
Malachi4U–
  1. Could you explain your point that Baptists believe:
40.png
Malachi4U:
It is OK to ‘save’ the under age children of those you evangelize without parental permission.
Click to expand...
Was this something that you were told or something one just understands? Would you say that Baptist ministers and youth directors practice this belief? I am asking because this point addresses exactly what I have observed to be true with a para-church evangelical youth group that bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to Catholic middle-school and high school (underage) youth. The adults also encourage the kids to bring in their friends–which I view as adults encouraging peer pressure to evangelize (or at least to get the kids to the youth group where they will be evangelized.) And worse yet, I am appalled that this youth group inserts itself into the public schools–with youth ministers chatting up kids during school hours (in the lunchroom or at recess) and pass out flyers about their activities in the schools)–more ways that it bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to underage kids.
  1. Surely you mean that “Girls cannot wear PANTS and can ONLY wear dresses.”
40.png
Malachi4U:
Girls cannot wear dresses.
Click to expand...
 
Are Baptist Teachings About Mary Biblical?

We did not publish this web site with the intent of creating yet another apologetic for Catholicism, nor to persuade Baptists of the rich spiritual benefits of reflection on the Blessed Mother, Mary. So too, we will readily admit that official Baptist doctrines usually say little about Mary, other than that Jesus Christ was conceived and born of the Virgin Mary.

So why do we see a need to devote an entire topical category of this web site to Baptist Scriptural errors regarding Mary? Unfortunately, many of the Baptists that we have encountered exhibit a strange hostility toward Mary that seems to be related directly to their ambient hostility toward Catholic practices and teachings. In particular, they have made the pretense that Mary had sexual relations with Joseph, and thus bore other children besides Jesus, into something of a shibboleth by which to claim that Catholics wantonly ignore Biblical teachings in favor of the traditions of the Church.

Mary has thus become a stumbling block in the evangelical dialogue between Catholics and Baptists. This is unfortunate, as there is not a single shred of valid Biblical evidence that Mary did not remain a virgin all of her life. Hence, we feel that it is important to point out the lack of Biblical grounding for these popular Baptist beliefs about the pretended sexual proclivities of the Blessed Mother. :blessyou:
 
La Chiara:
Malachi4U–
  1. Could you explain your point that Baptists believe: "
    It is OK to ‘save’ the under age children of those you evangelize without parental permission."
Was this something that you were told or something one just understands? Would you say that Baptist ministers and youth directors practice this belief? I am asking because this point addresses exactly what I have observed to be true with a para-church evangelical youth group that bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to Catholic middle-school and high school (underage) youth. The adults also encourage the kids to bring in their friends–which I view as adults encouraging peer pressure to evangelize (or at least to get the kids to the youth group where they will be evangelized.) And worse yet, I am appalled that this youth group inserts itself into the public schools–with youth ministers chatting up kids during school hours (in the lunchroom or at recess) and pass out flyers about their activities in the schools)–more ways that it bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to underage kids.
Click to expand...
(Many)Baptists use youth groups like AWANA to evangelize and convert young children to their theology. Many non-Baptist adults allow their children to go to AWANA activities thinking these are just generic youth activities or basic Bible study. This is not the case in most groups though that I have seen first hand. The Catholic Church believes in the parental right of all parents given them by God to raise their children. When a child comes of age you may then evangelize that “young adult”. In groups like AWANA they actively try to convert *minors *and thus ignore/violate a God given right of parents to raise their children. The AWANA instructors just assume since you allowed your kid into the group they thus have full authority to convert your child to the Baptist sect.

I have also read instructor manuals from the AWANA group that advise instructors to often keep parents away from thier children so as to make it easier for the instructors to teach without parental interference.

By the way, my wife has at last stopped teaching or helping in AWANA and my kids are now free from it. Praise GOD!

Ask a Baptist kid from the AWANA program to a Catholic youth program and the parents will say “NO WAY!” It’s a double standard. AWANA is great and Catholics programs are forbidden. AWANA is just another means to evangelize non-Baptists and to keep Baptist youth Baptist.
“Girls cannot wear dresses.”
2. Surely you mean that “Girls cannot wear PANTS and can ONLY wear dresses.”
Click to expand...
OOPS! My typo, It should have said “Girls can only wear dresses”.

Sorry for the short response here but I am short on time. I will answer better/longer if you still need me to later. I did not go in depth in the answers and they are by no means complete, just take this as a general response only.

A prisoner of Christ,
 
La Chiara:
Malachi4U–
  1. Could you explain your point that Baptists believe:
Was this something that you were told or something one just understands? Would you say that Baptist ministers and youth directors practice this belief? I am asking because this point addresses exactly what I have observed to be true with a para-church evangelical youth group that bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to Catholic middle-school and high school (underage) youth. The adults also encourage the kids to bring in their friends–which I view as adults encouraging peer pressure to evangelize (or at least to get the kids to the youth group where they will be evangelized.) And worse yet, I am appalled that this youth group inserts itself into the public schools–with youth ministers chatting up kids during school hours (in the lunchroom or at recess) and pass out flyers about their activities in the schools)–more ways that it bypasses parental permission and appeals directly to underage kids.
  1. Surely you mean that “Girls cannot wear PANTS and can ONLY wear dresses.”
Click to expand...
I have to respond to the ridiculous claims. I stayed away for a while, but this is simply not true.

Girls can wear pants or dresses or skirts.

Children attending AWANA or other youth groups are 90% home church kids. They belong to the members of the church. Wouldn’t they agree to have their kids evangelized and taught??? Of course. For the other 10%, the parents know what they are getting into. They send their children to a Baptist Church. The Baptist church has Baptist teachers and preachers. AWANA is admittedly protestant and evangelical in nature. It’s no secret.
 
quote=Malachi4UBaptists use youth groups like AWANA to evangelize and convert young children to their theology. Many non-Baptist adults allow their children to go to AWANA activities thinking these are just generic youth activities or basic Bible study. This is not the case in most groups though that I have seen first hand. The Catholic Church believes in the parental right of all parents given them by God to raise their children. When a child comes of age you may then evangelize that “young adult”. In groups like AWANA they actively try to convert *minors *and thus ignore/violate a God given right of parents to raise their children. The AWANA instructors just assume since you allowed your kid into the group they thus have full authority to convert your child to the Baptist sect.

I have also read instructor manuals from the AWANA group that advise instructors to often keep parents away from thier children so as to make it easier for the instructors to teach without parental interference.

By the way, my wife has at last stopped teaching or helping in AWANA and my kids are now free from it. Praise GOD!

Ask a Baptist kid from the AWANA program to a Catholic youth program and the parents will say “NO WAY!” It’s a double standard. AWANA is great and Catholics programs are forbidden. AWANA is just another means to evangelize non-Baptists and to keep Baptist youth Baptist.OOPS! My typo, It should have said “Girls can only wear dresses”.

Sorry for the short response here but I am short on time. I will answer better/longer if you still need me to later. I did not go in depth in the answers and they are by no means complete, just take this as a general response only.

A prisoner of Christ,
[/quote]

Any parent can search the web at the AWANA site or ask an AWANA helper or director for specific info about what their children will be taught.

If I sent my kids to a Catholic Church youth group meeting, I would be SMART ENOUGH to figure out that by doing so, they would encounter Catholic teaching. The same is true for non-Catholics to send their kids to AWANA. Would you send your kid somewhere that you knew nothing about? Of course not.

As far as keeping parents away from their kids - give me a break. Do you think a kid can learn better while the parents are all standing there watching the teacher teach their children? No, usually parents are a distraction.

When will you stop the slander?
 
Out of curiosity: Why are some Baptist’ churches called First Baptist Church? I have never seen the name of Second BC or Third BC, and so on. I have asked my Baptist friend about it and she gave the answer of “Oh, it is just a name.” Was that the right answer?
 
Well, here in Houston there is a Second Baptist Church - it’s HUGE – larger than First, with about 23,000 people! My brother calls it The Dome of the Rock as they have a huge gold dome over their larger sanctuary. 😃 (They had to build a separate church in the West of Houston to accomodate all the people)

There’s also a St. Agnes Baptist church.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top