Differences between Catholic faith and Baptist?

[StubbleSpark]

ahimsaman72:

Originally Posted by ahimsaman72
As a life-long baptist I can honestly say I’ve never heard anyone call a catholic a “non-Christian”. My pastors have always taught that people from all walks of life and many denominations would make it to heaven, including catholics. .

Whether you like it or believe it, my statement here is true, regardless of the link you posted.

It took me a long time to tell my dad that I had converted Catholic. You see, he comes from a type of Baptist church that is even more southern than yours – Brazil. Naturally, he was floored. It was like a very good joke only the punchline was his beloved son.

“At least I’m still Christian, dad. It’s not like I became a Muslim or something.”

My dad shook his head, “No, I don’t think so.”

Commence over an hour of heated debate over whether or not Cathliocs are Christian. I am not writing this because I was surprised at his answer because I grew up learning that Catholics were not Christians but an old and obsolete form of Paganism. These sentiments are more widely spread in the Baptist community than they are suppressed.

My grandfather was a Baptist missionary in Brazil for over 46 years! He considers Catholics as one of the biggest enemies of the faith next to the vodoo practicioners. I think there have been sufficient posts from numerous former Baptists on this thread refuting your claims that Baptists believe Catholics are fellow Christians. The good ones believe we are. The bad ones do not. But by and large, the bad are in the vast majority and more likely than not the ones leading the flocks. This ugliness is one of the things that drove me from the Baptist faith.

Let’s waste space on this thread on something other than refuting the obvious, eh? You cannot prove your point armed as you are, anyway (ie, you have no objective poll data at the ready or you would have used it by now). And even if you did, that would not change the fact that so many of us Baptists and former Baptists disagree with you based on personal experience.

As Catholics, we get to hear all sorts of horror stories about our shortcomings from all sides of the spectrum. Some of it is just appearances, some of it is an open commentary on the sad state of things today. But trying to deny someone’s experiences falls just short of blaming the victim. Makes me feel all sorta Virginia Woolf-y.

 

[Malachi4U]

Theodora:

Out of curiosity: Why are some Baptist’ churches called First Baptist Church? I have never seen the name of Second BC or Third BC, and so on. I have asked my Baptist friend about it and she gave the answer of “Oh, it is just a name.” Was that the right answer?

Gods peace be with you Theodora,

I have seen 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Baptist church names. Why I don’t know, who cares anyway? They just name it so as to be different then the guy around the block so that the flock knows which Baptist church building to flock to. Plus they all have thier own slant on theological opinions. Two Baptist church next door could teach different things that conflicted too. One could teach freewill and one could be calvinist and teach predestination. Its hard to find two Baptists let alone two Baptist churches that belive the same thing. (Ok, Catholics memebers differ too but there is only one Dagma, one Faith and Morals from His Church.)

Just a note. Many Baptists churches have stopped putting the word Baptist in their name. This is because of the negative stereotyping the Baptists are getting from some of their members and churches.

 

[Malachi4U]

StubbleSpark:

…“At least I’m still Christian, dad. It’s not like I became a Muslim or something.”

My dad shook his head, “No, I don’t think so.”…

StubbleSpark,

Great post. It proves me right once again.

I believe you defended one of my posts against a member that I have added to my ignore list for good reason. I do not see any posts by members on that list which is good. I do see what they write when others include portions of their posts inside theirs. I let God be my sheild and if they falsely attack me I would hope that you and others take up the banner of truth and come to defend me from the posts I do not see but others do.

The ignore list is great to get rid of rambling, bable, non-conversers, bad attitudes, cooling down periods, getting sleep, seeing the good posts only, etc… Others should try it too.

 

[mayra_hart]

Catholic Rebuttal to a Baptist Tract
FERNANDO MATRO I know this firsthand because one of them once knocked on *my *door. With a Bible in hand, he introduced himself and gave me a tract. He said that if I believed in the Word of God, I’d be saved. If I was interested, he would invite me to their weekly prayer meetings and a bus would pick me up. With big bold letters the front cover of the tract read: “HOW TO KNOW 100% FOR SURE, WITHOUT A DOUBT, THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN.” Hmm, quite a catchy phrase to surely get one’s attention, I mused. “No, thank you,” I answered, “I’m Catholic. I know no one is 100% sure he will go to heaven.” Maybe the word “Catholic” got his attention to engage me in a mini dialogue. He said that in the Bible there is a list of elect who will go to heaven. At this time I let him inside my living room and we both sat on the sofa. I asked him if God personally appeared to him to tell him he’d go to heaven. He insisted that anyone who believed what the Bible says could know for sure they would go to heaven. He then changed the subject, opening his KJV, quoting Romans 3:23: “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” without explaining what the verse meant. I questioned him that if “all have sinned,” did this include newborn babies one week old? He gave me the typical circular reasoning of: “This is what the Bible says and we must believe it.” I tried to pin him down to give me an example from Scripture how a week-old baby could possibly sin. His answer was the same old “it’s-in-the-Bible” stuff. Oh well.

 

[mayra_hart]

Soon after, he had to leave to finish his area assignment.

Since there is no copyright on the tract, I guess it’s okay to quote from it verbatim. My Catholic response is in* italics* [now quoting from the tract]:

HOW TO

KNOW 100%

FOR SURE,

WITHOUT A

DOUBT,

THAT YOU

WOULD GO

TO HEAVEN

YOU CAN KNOW

1 John 5:13 “Those things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

The key word “may” is conditional. One may or may not enter heaven, depending on whether he has an ongoing faith in Jesus Christ, obeys His commandments and does good works in love. Otherwise, it’s pure guesswork and presumption. Our Lord clearly said, “Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven” (Matthew 7:21). So, we know we will go to heaven if we are faithful to Him until the end. This is the kind of assurance the Christian has.

WE ARE ALL SINNERS

Who is good? Romans 3-10 “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”

Including Jesus Christ? Did not God, through an angel, tell Mary she was “full of grace” (Lk 1:28) and, therefore, righteous? What about a week-old baby? Has he committed sin? No, of course not. The point is that the statement is in reference to humanity as a whole, and that there is no one righteous apart from Jesus Christ. (Remember, even Mary’s holiness is totally dependent on Jesus’ Sacrifice.)

Who has sinned? Romans 3:23 “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”

“For all have sinned” pertains to Original Sin, which we inherited from our first parents, Adam and Eve, because there are clearly cases of people who have not committed actual sin (mentally handicapped people, children below the age of reason, etc.).

WHERE SIN CAME FROM

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.” (One man —the first man, Adam)

Again, this verse refers to Original Sin, which we humans inherited. This sin can be wiped out through the sacrament of baptism — the beginning of justification (=sanctification).

Revelation 20:14 “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” (The word death in this verse means Hell)

Revelation 3:5 also states: “He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.” (Note the condition!)

 

[mayra_hart]

GOD’S PRICE ON SIN

Romans 6:23 “for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

The wages of original sin is death, but one is “born again” through baptism (John 3:5). If the Baptist is referring to personal sin, however*, then he overlooks 1 John 5:17 “Not all sin is fatal.” Therefore, the “wages of sin” IS NOT always death (Hell), according to Scripture.*

OUR WAY OUT

Romans 5:8 “But God commandeth his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us.”

True, God commanded His love toward us. While we were sinners, Christ died for us and redeemed our sins. We now have a “clean slate” and we must keep this slate clean at all times. There is simply no guarantee that this slate could not one day get dirty again. In fact, quite the contrary, the Bible tells us in Romans 11:22-23.

Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

But NOT whosoever calls: “Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven” (Mt 7:21). Now, that’s Jesus Christ speaking. Any other questions?

Romans 10:9-11 “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture with Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”

The Lord Jesus gave the power to his apostles and their successors in the Church to offer Christ’s forgiveness of sins to this and future generations: “As the Father sent me, so am I sending you. When you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound” (John 20:12-23). Darn! If that’s not clear, I don’t know what is…

This is emphasized also by Matthew 18:18: “I promise you, all that you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and all that you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

You Must Ask In Faith

Hebrew 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him. For he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that his is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

*But with faith (mental assent) alone it is impossible to please Him (cf. James 2:24). And besides, how do you even know you had faith? How much faith is required? There is never certain event in one’s life that a Protestant can appeal to, claiming, “This is when I had perfect faith, and this is when I was justified” because there is always the possibility that the faith was not sincere enough, not honest enough (which is precisely the reason some Protestants have themselves baptized more than once). Perhaps it was just out of kindness towards the pastor of the church who pressured the 14-year-olds to finally accept Christ. In the Catholic Church, this is different. We have “one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5). Once you are baptized, you know you have been forgiven of all your sins because God’s Word itself testifies that this would be so (Acts 2:38-39; Acts 22:16). ***Here’s the important point: the fact that baptism is done by someone else shows that you cannot save yourself, by any good work (even if it be faith, if that’s all it is), but must be done by someone else, so that Christ’s grace can work in you independently of you. ***Baptism, then, is not done by you but by Christ, and therefore guarantees true justification. If, after baptism, you fall into sin again, this is when we go to the priest and confess, so that Christ may absolve us through him, who is Christ’s “ambassador” (2 Corinthians 5:20). *

 

[ahimsaman72]

StubbleSpark:

It took me a long time to tell my dad that I had converted Catholic. You see, he comes from a type of Baptist church that is even more southern than yours – Brazil. Naturally, he was floored. It was like a very good joke only the punchline was his beloved son.

“At least I’m still Christian, dad. It’s not like I became a Muslim or something.”

My dad shook his head, “No, I don’t think so.”

Commence over an hour of heated debate over whether or not Cathliocs are Christian. I am not writing this because I was surprised at his answer because I grew up learning that Catholics were not Christians but an old and obsolete form of Paganism. These sentiments are more widely spread in the Baptist community than they are suppressed.

My grandfather was a Baptist missionary in Brazil for over 46 years! He considers Catholics as one of the biggest enemies of the faith next to the vodoo practicioners. I think there have been sufficient posts from numerous former Baptists on this thread refuting your claims that Baptists believe Catholics are fellow Christians. The good ones believe we are. The bad ones do not. But by and large, the bad are in the vast majority and more likely than not the ones leading the flocks. This ugliness is one of the things that drove me from the Baptist faith.

Let’s waste space on this thread on something other than refuting the obvious, eh? You cannot prove your point armed as you are, anyway (ie, you have no objective poll data at the ready or you would have used it by now). And even if you did, that would not change the fact that so many of us Baptists and former Baptists disagree with you based on personal experience.

As Catholics, we get to hear all sorts of horror stories about our shortcomings from all sides of the spectrum. Some of it is just appearances, some of it is an open commentary on the sad state of things today. But trying to deny someone’s experiences falls just short of blaming the victim. Makes me feel all sorta Virginia Woolf-y.

Just for the record, you don’t have any “objective poll-data” either. So, what’s your point there? I only told my experience. How many more times do I have to explain this? It was my experience as a life-long Southern Baptist. I’ve heard what I have heard. I’ve seen what I have seen.

So, I guess you would have to say I’m lying. But, that’s okay. If you want to use that thinking, that’s perfectly up to you. I stand behind what I claimed. I would gain nothing by lying and presenting the facts another way.

If you want to disagree, fine. You had a certain experience, I had another. Did I claim anyone was lying about their experience? No. I believe each of you had your personal experiences. I had mine, which is obviously different from yours and my experience has been real. What else can I say?

Other Baptists haven’t refuted any of my claims. Neither have you. My claims are genuine.

 

[dmelosi]

ahimsaman72:

Boy, where do I begin?

This is not entirely accurate. The Baptist denomination didn’t really begin till 1607 officially. It is incorrect to say that Baptists deleted books out of Scripture.

It is also incorrect to say that the Baptists changed the early church. I don’t understand - have any examples?

Scripture was written by Moses, David, Solomon, the prophets then by apostles and other disciples like Matthew, Paul and Peter, etc. Don’t you believe that too? These men were inspired by God to write what they did. And they did it for our benefit - to learn.

As for the rest of your post - it is similarly ridiculous and without examples it is impossible for your post to make sense. Basically condescending garbage.

A couple of things.
As I am studying the Catholic faith everything I am reading about the differences in the bibles is that Martin Luther eliminated some of the books. I have never heard the protestant version on why the bibles are different. Could you help me there?

Since the split from the Catholic Church in the 1600’s the latest figure I heard is that there are now over 33,000 different protestant churches. Wouldn’t it seem that is not a good thing as many churches have different biblical interpretations and move to different churches based on their personal beliefs? Isn’t this like allowing children to make their own rules and set their own standards based on what they feel is the right thing?

 

[dmelosi]

I have been married for 27 years. When we became engaged my wife’s grandmother (husband was a Baptist minister) told my wife that she would not come to the wedding if she married me. My wife converted to Catholicism 22 years ago. My father in law who was raised Baptist but is now Methodist asked me 2 years ago if Catholics believed in Jesus.

No one from the Baptist faith outright told me that Catholic’s would not go to heavan, but that seemed to insinuate it.

 

[ahimsaman72]

dmelosi:

A couple of things.
As I am studying the Catholic faith everything I am reading about the differences in the bibles is that Martin Luther eliminated some of the books. I have never heard the protestant version on why the bibles are different. Could you help me there?

Since the split from the Catholic Church in the 1600’s the latest figure I heard is that there are now over 33,000 different protestant churches. Wouldn’t it seem that is not a good thing as many churches have different biblical interpretations and move to different churches based on their personal beliefs? Isn’t this like allowing children to make their own rules and set their own standards based on what they feel is the right thing?

There are other threads where more knowledgeable people have touched on the Bible issue. You may do a search here at the forum to find those.

First, those numbers are overrated. Second, there’s actually a great deal of cohesiveness between denominations instead of complete division.

People should have the right and opportunity to study Scripture for themselves in their native tongue and come to know Christ. They can know Christ by reading His words and the words of Moses and all the prophets and apostles.

 

[RebAvomai]

BS’D

ahimsaman72:

By the way, for all those who are claiming that all kinds of baptists are anti-catholic, I suggest you look to the Southern Baptist Convention’s website and see if you find anti-catholicism there. You won’t find it. Lately, the evangelism outreach has been focused on unbelieving Jews and Mormons.

And as a unbelieving Jew, I can say with complete confidence, this is why the Catholic Church is light years ahead of the SBC in the maturity of their faith.

 

[ahimsaman72]

RebAvomai:

BS’D

And as a unbelieving Jew, I can say with complete confidence, this is why the Catholic Church is light years ahead of the SBC in the maturity of their faith.

Hello friend.

If you look at the relationship between evangelical Christians and Jews compared to Catholic Christians and Jews, you will see alot more respect and love from the evangelicals. This has always been the case. Just because evangelicals want to see Jews accept Christ as Messiah and aggressively seek that end, doesn’t mean they are immature in their faith. It just might mean that Catholics lack zeal and the vision to reach others for Christ.

I love the Jewish people because it is the Jewish people that God has loved from the beginning. And I also love the Jewish people because it is through their race and heritage that the Messiah has come. The Jewish people are near to the heart of Almighty God, therefore, they are not far from mine.

Forgive us if we evangelicals and Baptists offend you. We love Christ and accept Him as Messiah and wish that all men would accept Him, because we know that is through Jesus Christ that salvation has come. I cannot apologize for that.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

RebAvomai:

BS’D

And as a unbelieving Jew, I can say with complete confidence, this is why the Catholic Church is light years ahead of the SBC in the maturity of their faith.

By the way, it is a pleasure to have you aboard. I hope to see you around many places. Though we differ in some beliefs, I believe we could also come together on many beliefs.

Please also remember that just because I have always been a Southern Baptist doesn’t mean I personally believe everything the SBC has done or will do is correct. The basic tenents of the SBC faith I adhere to, obviously. But, Christ did not institute the SBC, nor the Catholic Church, nor the LDS Church. It is Christ alone that ultimately must be faithfully followed.

I have tremendous respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and Orthodox Jews. The SBC did not approach those two groups in a ecumenical way. They used an aggressive approach that lacked sensitivity. I am first and foremost a Christian, secondarily a Baptist.

Peace…

 

[RebAvomai]

BS’D

Shalom,

ahimsaman72:

Hello friend.

If you look at the relationship between evangelical Christians and Jews compared to Catholic Christians and Jews, you will see alot more respect and love from the evangelicals. This has always been the case…

Here is a quick link I pulled off the SBC website, a link I got from your own website.

bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=3210

here’s a quick snipet, thats my case in point:

As evidence, Jews for jesus reports that 1.1 million people accepted gospel tracts during a summer witnessing campaign in New York City last summer. The theme of the campaign was “Be More Jewish – Believe in jesus.”

I’ve lived, befriended and otherwise enjoyed the company of various christians since I was knee high. Catholics, by and large may agree with the above quote, but would never have the chutzpah to tell me to be “More Jewish”. However of all the evangelicals I have ever met, the vast majority of them would ask me to be “More Jewish” in a heart beat.

Actions always speak much louder then words. I’d give much more creedence to the Catholic who “evangelizes” by his actions of charity for all the down troden, his respect for other faiths and what they give to the community, regardless of creed.

Coming back from shul this past Shabbat, I found a relgious tract on my door compelling me to become a “Completed Jew” from a SBC establishment then next county over. It will not suprise me in the next few days if I find out that most if not all of the members in my congregation had the exact same tract on theirs. Thats not the action of a gracious christian who is secure in his own beliefs.

With Regards,

 

[RebAvomai]

BS’D

Shalom,

ahimsaman72:

By the way, it is a pleasure to have you aboard. I hope to see you around many places. Though we differ in some beliefs, I believe we could also come together on many beliefs.

Please also remember that just because I have always been a Southern Baptist doesn’t mean I personally believe everything the SBC has done or will do is correct. The basic tenents of the SBC faith I adhere to, obviously. But, Christ did not institute the SBC, nor the Catholic Church, nor the LDS Church. It is Christ alone that ultimately must be faithfully followed.

I have tremendous respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and Orthodox Jews. The SBC did not approach those two groups in a ecumenical way. They used an aggressive approach that lacked sensitivity. I am first and foremost a Christian, secondarily a Baptist.

Peace…

I understand that you can’t answer for everything the SBC does and I welcome your friendship. I just question, why be apart of an organization that doesn’t accuretly reflect you?

 

[Des]

People should have the right and opportunity to study Scripture for themselves in their native tongue and come to know Christ. They can know Christ by reading His words and the words of Moses and all the prophets and apostles.

Allow me to say this. If you were given a Bible when you were a kid without somebody else passing on their interpretation to you, I’m betting you would probably not even come to believe in the Holy Trinity. It is only recognizable because someone told you what and where to look for it in the Bible. You wouldn’t be anywhere near where you are now with the “knowledge” you have of the Written Word. Or at least the knowledge you think you have. I’m not trying to insult you here, i’m just trying to get you to understand how illogical it would be for God to leave in our hands the Bible only, without a teacher.

 

[ahimsaman72]

RebAvomai:

BS’D

Shalom,

I understand that you can’t answer for everything the SBC does and I welcome your friendship. I just question, why be apart of an organization that doesn’t accuretly reflect you?

For the same reason Catholics stay around even given the priest scandals. I personally remain one because I believe the teachings are closer than any other Christian faith. Kind of like if I had a brother who committed a crime. He should be responsible for it, but he is still my brother and I would love him even still. None of us do the right things all the time. The SBC should refrain from evangelizing other Christian denomination groups and Jews. They should instead go to the uttermost parts of the earth where those who have never heard the gospel live.

I welcome your friendship as well. As I said, the insensitivity of the SBC in certain matters should not be totally reflective on my character. I would never tell you to be more Jewish by believing in Jesus. That is a classless statement that is insensitive and demeaning. As any denomination or religion has a conservative and liberal side, I am on the liberal side of the SBC which does not agree with their approach.

I have to say that they have also said many things against Catholics that I cannot agree with either. There is a darker side to them that I never knew before. Though no one here believes me, my church and subsequent SBC churches that I grew up in and worshiped in till about 3 years ago did not view other denominations as “without salvation”. I recently found out that my experience was not a normal experience in an SBC church.

If you notice from my website, I offer different links to different faith groups within Christianity. I believe our lives should be balanced - and I have tried to do that there.

If I ever offend you, just throw me against the wall and knock some sense in me :banghead: .

Shalom…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Des:

Allow me to say this. If you were given a Bible when you were a kid without somebody else passing on their interpretation to you, I’m betting you would probably not even come to believe in the Holy Trinity. It is only recognizable because someone told you what and where to look for it in the Bible. You wouldn’t be anywhere near where you are now with the “knowledge” you have of the Written Word. Or at least the knowledge you think you have. I’m not trying to insult you here, i’m just trying to get you to understand how illogical it would be for God to leave in our hands the Bible only, without a teacher.

I guess I will allow it . Des, you could be absolutely right. It is possible - but how can we know that? We can’t. That wasn’t the case. Listen, I don’t have all the answers. I’ll be the first one to tell you that. I grew up in Church and Sunday School. I’ve spent years studying the Bible, reading it and comparing concordances and commentaries and listening to preachers and teachers. I have some knowledge, but yes - I have much to learn.

I believe the Bible should be in the hands of the people. I also believe that we need teachers and men who have went to seminary - learned the ancient languages and have lived many years of the Christian life. Those learned men know so much more than I do. They’ve studied Hebrew and Greek and have that firsthand knowledge.

I, on the other hand, have to use a concordance because I don’t have that knowledge directly. That’s why in the Baptist faith, we have teachers and preachers. I’ve taught Sunday School for adults and kids myself. Yes, we were never meant to be Lone Ranger Christians. If I’ve ever implied otherwise, then I was mistaken and didn’t mean to imply that.

But, I reject the notion that I must have someone else interpret the Bible for me and have that binding on my conscience - whether it’s a pastor, teacher, bishop or pope. I can use the resources God gave me to get a real grasp of the gospel and plan of salvation that is from Genesis to Revelation. I may not have all the answers, but I have the ones that count.

Peace…

 

[Des]

ahimsaman72:

I believe the Bible should be in the hands of the people. I also believe that we need teachers and men who have went to seminary - learned the ancient languages and have lived many years of the Christian life. Those learned men know so much more than I do. They’ve studied Hebrew and Greek and have that firsthand knowledge.

These teachers and seminarians also disagree with one another. Many already have in their mind that what they are learning cannot be the Catholic way so they are already leaving out a possibility. I could point out to you learned men from the language and culture of that time who are Catholic but you wouldn’t even consider them. Why, because you were told our view is wrong, plain and simple.
I also believe the Bible should be in the hands of people as long as what they learn doesnt contradict the Sacred Deposits of the faith given by the Oral Word of God through the successors of the Apostles.

I, on the other hand, have to use a concordance because I don’t have that knowledge directly. That’s why in the Baptist faith, we have teachers and preachers. I’ve taught Sunday School for adults and kids myself. Yes, we were never meant to be Lone Ranger Christians. If I’ve ever implied otherwise, then I was mistaken and didn’t mean to imply that.

But this sounds so contradictive. Why if the Bible is all I need, should I even go to a baptists church to listen to what someone else’s interpretations is? What gives one the right to teach children with their views of the Written Word at such a young age if they think that the child will have his own authority at the age of reason.

But, I reject the notion that I must have someone else interpret the Bible for me and have that binding on my conscience - whether it’s a pastor, teacher, bishop or pope. I can use the resources God gave me to get a real grasp of the gospel and plan of salvation that is from Genesis to Revelation. I may not have all the answers, but I have the ones that count.

I know a guy who read the Bible from cover to cover. He actually thought a husband owned and should control his wife. I told him he was wrong here but he just said to me, “hey man, it’s in the Bible”. I don’t think he’ll ever learn the truth unless someone points out to him his error. I know protestants who believe in divorce, abortion, and birth control. They have no authority to tell them the immoralities of these situations. They will say God didn’t mean it this way or that way, or God wouldn’t want me to suffer the rest of my life without getting remarried etc. God was no dummy when He built the Church upon Peter the Rock. He knew we need authority that cannot fail especially in difficult questions in dealing with morality. A church that is the ground and pillar of Truth.
By rejecting the Catholic Church, you reject the very Teachings of the Apostles handed down by Sacred Tradition. By rejecting your pastor, you simply reject a man who has no authority over you whatsoever.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Des:

These teachers and seminarians also disagree with one another. Many already have in their mind that what they are learning cannot be the Catholic way so they are already leaving out a possibility. I could point out to you learned men from the language and culture of that time who are Catholic but you wouldn’t even consider them. Why, because you were told our view is wrong, plain and simple.

Frankly, I don’t think we can speak for those learned men and know for sure what is going on in their minds as they study the ancient languages and hermeneutics. I believe most to be very sincere, though I can’t prove that.

And again, you presume that I wouldn’t even consider something which you have not even given me the opportunity to accept or reject. Growing up, I wasn’t told that Catholics or other groups view was wrong. Again, you presume something that isn’t true.

I also believe the Bible should be in the hands of people as long as what they learn doesnt contradict the Sacred Deposits of the faith given by the Oral Word of God through the successors of the Apostles.

Of course my view would be that these “Sacred Deposits of the faith” need not contradict God-breathed Scripture. I suppose we wouldn’t get around this issue.

But this sounds so contradictive. Why if the Bible is all I need, should I even go to a baptists church to listen to what someone else’s interpretations is? What gives one the right to teach children with their views of the Written Word at such a young age if they think that the child will have his own authority at the age of reason.

Official doctrine is not what is taught in every sermon. Usually, evident matters of faith, such as love, patience and discipleship are central themes. So, going to church to listen to the teachers and preachers is not about interpretations, it is about living the Christian life.

Deut. 6:6,7

1. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
2. And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

We teach children our faith and the faith as it is written in Scripture. It is easy to grasp the stories of Cain and Abel, Moses, Noah, Joseph, Jonah. In each of those stories, the timeless treasure of God’s plans and relationship with mankind is clear. These are the things we teach children. We also teach them to read and study the Bible for themselves, instead of just taking what anyone says as truth.

finished on next post…