Differences between Catholic Teaching and the Bible

[ricko]

I started this thread at the request of BibleSteve who stated that there were differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. So if anyone knows of any such difference, please list them here. Please be brief and clear on each point.

 

[BibleSteve]

I’m actually surprised at the question. And let me say emphatically, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your faith.

The context is that someone asked when I was going to join the Catholic Church.

I responded that when I compare the Bible vs. the Teachings of the Catholic Church I see huge differences.

RickO spun out this thread to discuss the topic.

Since Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura, why would you question this position?

But to begin a discussion, the list is so very long.

Where can I read about “Holy Water” with people dipping their fingers into it and making the sign of the cross in the Bible?

 

[BibleSteve]

While your at it… where can I read in the Bible about Purgatory? or Rosaries?

 

[vince2paul]

While your at it… where can I read in the Bible about Purgatory? or Rosaries?

Purgatory

Rosary

 

[paarsurrey]

I started this thread at the request of BibleSteve who stated that there were differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. So if anyone knows of any such difference, please list them here. Please be brief and clear on each point.

Hi

There are differences , in my opinion, in the teachings of the Catholics with the NTBible but also of the Protestants on their merit with the concepts of Jesus to start with. I think, both Catholics and Protestants are more of a follower of Paul rather than Jesus in beliefs as well as practices.

Thanks

 

[Tietjen]

While your at it… where can I read in the Bible about Purgatory? or Rosaries?

I wish people would come to the realization that just because something is not specifically named within Scripture does not mean that it is not a reality. My question to you is which came first, the Bible or the Church. I hope that you understand and accept the fact that the Bible was not “put together” until some 300 years after Christ (at least the Bible that we use today). Therefore, it was THE CHURCH that taught, it was THE CHURCH that was recognized as the “Pillar of Truth.” It was even THE CHURCH that compiled and established the Bible. Today, we have so many that look at that same CHURCH and speak ill of its teachings simply because some of those teachings are not specifically mentioned in the same Bible that the same CHURCH established. How illogical is that?!
Incidentally, show me where in the Bible it says that we are to use only scripture to determine Truth.

 

[richardwy]

I started this thread at the request of BibleSteve who stated that there were differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. So if anyone knows of any such difference, please list them here. Please be brief and clear on each point.

Ricko, something so many forget or never realize is what would have a Catholic in 147 A.D. made of the question? Even past the 300’s? “Huh?” would have been the reply.

But they would have understood Hiliare Belloc’s “There is only one house” written around 1936.

There’s tons there.

What makes the question possible was the reformation. What made that possible (amongst other factors, but without which 1517 would be a year on the calendar and nothing more) anti-clericalism and a thirst for loot. Not a love for the Bible, sadly.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Let me see if I get this, The Catholic church Pope and bishops, and their councils put the books of the bible together and canonized them, and excercised the authority to exclude books and writings beginning from the 3rd century, then the next couple or more centuries the Catholic Popes and Bishops counciled again and confirmed the canonized books of the bible. Today The Roman Catholic bible Still contain those canonized books previously canonized by the Catholic Popes and Bishops.

Now do I believe that the Catholic church in reviewing these books, before being canonized, are going to agree on a book to be inspired by God,that teaches something contrary to the Doctrines of the Catholic church, who excercised her infallible authority to include these books of the bible today?

answer: I dont think so.

Nor did the Catholic church add to the books to try and decieve by including her doctrine in the books. This proves of her infallibility to canonize the bible. Now grant it the Catholic church could have done so like Martin luther adding the word “alone” to Romans to fit his sola fide doctrine, but the Catholic church did not.

One more point, This is one reason the Catholic church believes in Sacred Tradition handed down by the apostles and Sacred Scripture.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Let me see if I get this, The Catholic church Pope and bishops, and their councils put the books of the bible together and canonized them, and excercised the authority to exclude books and writings beginning from the 3rd century, then the next couple or more centuries the Catholic Popes and Bishops counciled again and confirmed the canonized books of the bible. Today The Roman Catholic bible Still contain those canonized books previously canonized by the Catholic Popes and Bishops.

Now do I believe that the Catholic church in reviewing these books, before being canonized, are going to agree on a book to be inspired by God,that teaches something contrary to the Doctrines of the Catholic church, who excercised her infallible authority to include these books of the bible today?

answer: I dont think so.

Nor did the Catholic church add to the books to try and decieve by including her doctrine in the books. This proves of her infallibility to canonize the bible. Now grant it the Catholic church could have done so like Martin luther adding the word “alone” to Romans to fit his sola fide doctrine, but the Catholic church did not.

One more point, This is one reason the Catholic church believes in Sacred Tradition handed down by the apostles and Sacred Scripture.

 

[geezerbob]

I’m actually surprised at the question. And let me say emphatically, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your faith.

The context is that someone asked when I was going to join the Catholic Church.

I responded that when I compare the Bible vs. the Teachings of the Catholic Church I see huge differences.

RickO spun out this thread to discuss the topic.

Since Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura, why would you question this position?

But to begin a discussion, the list is so very long.

Where can I read about “Holy Water” with people dipping their fingers into it and making the sign of the cross in the Bible?

I certainly hope that no one has made the claim that everything the Catholic Church teaches can be found in the Bible. However, I challenge you to find any teachings which contradict the Bible.

 

[JPatton]

I started this thread at the request of BibleSteve who stated that there were differences between Catholic teaching and the Bible. So if anyone knows of any such difference, please list them here. Please be brief and clear on each point.

I searched for biblical evidence to back up CC teaching and found her beliefs to be very biblical. The real presence, purgatory, baptism, confession…etc, all biblical. Interpretations may indeed be different though. Also make sure you know the difference between a Doctrine and a Discipline.

 

[ljprevo]

Ummm, simple

Thessalonians
2:15

"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours. "

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/2thessalonians/2thessalonians2.htm

 

[ricko]

Since it seems no one is answering the questions, here goes. Steve, the use of holy water dates back to ancient times. Look up Numbers 5:17. Holy water has been in use since the time of Moses and as you well know the Catholic Church being 2,000 years old has rich traditions and customs that are still in use today. Why would anyone have a problem making the sign of the cross with holy water? It acknowledges your Christianity and the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. See what Catholic Answers has to say:

The spiritual benefit of holy water comes from the devotion of the people who use it. Anything can be used for good ends because everything God created is good. When water is blessed and transformed into holy water, it is “set aside” for a religious purpose, and such a purpose is by nature good. In the Old Testament water was used to consecrate priests (Ex. 29:4, Lev. 8:6, Num. 8:7). It was used before sacrifices were offered (Ex. 30:18–19). In Solomon’s Temple there were ten giant basins of water (1 Kgs. 7:38–39). In the New Testament Christ washed the apostles’ feet with water (John 13:4-10), a ceremony preserved in the Maundy Thursday liturgy, and water flowed out of the side of Christ (John 19:34).

Because of such scriptural and historical connections, Catholics see holy water as a sign of God’s continual imparting of grace through the Church and through holy actions, especially through the sacraments. Just as the sign of the cross reminds us of the sacrifice on Calvary and of the chief Christian doctrine, the Trinity, so holy water (which commonly is used when making the sign of the cross) reminds us of the cleansing power of God’s grace. What’s more, holy water’s use reminds us of the incarnational aspects of our faith: Christ used everyday things—bread, wine, oil, water—to transmit grace and healings, both spiritual and physical. When we dip our fingers into the stoup at the church door, we recall, in a tactile manner, that ours is not a disembodied, ethereal faith, but one in which God himself took on our flesh and thus resanctified his creation.

Karl Keating

 

[ricko]

While your at it… where can I read in the Bible about Purgatory? or Rosaries?

Out of context of the thread BibleSteve. However I see vince2paul gave you a couple of links. A few words about Purgatory which by the way is in the bible. Oh I know the NAME Purgatory is not there but don’t forget the word Trinity is not in the bible either. My Baptist friend says that if you die with any sin (even a lie) you will go to hell. He would be right since “nothing defiled can enter heaven”. If you die in God’s grace but have that little lie on your soul should you go to Hell? The bible and the Church does not teach that. Purgatory cleanses the soul from minor imperfections so the soul can then enter heaven. Just a real short description. Also, try this link…catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0511sbs.asp

 

[De_Maria]

I’m actually surprised at the question.

I believe you.

And let me say emphatically, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you or your faith.

I believe you. Please understand that I mean no disrespect to you or your faith when I say that the reason that you are surprised is because you don’t know the Scriptures. I mean this sincerely.

The context is that someone asked when I was going to join the Catholic Church.

I responded that when I compare the Bible vs. the Teachings of the Catholic Church I see huge differences.

Ok. Lets discuss those. Because I assure you that you are mistaken.

RickO spun out this thread to discuss the topic.

No problem. Or do you think its a problem? I mean, if you honestly perceive differences, who is going to argue. Certainly not I. I used to be an atheist and I came back to Christ as a Protestant before I came back to the Catholic Church.

Since Catholics don’t believe in Sola Scriptura, why would you question this position?

Because Sola Scriptura is not Scriptural. Or if it is, please post the Scripture that teaches Sola Scriptura.

In fact, Sola Scriptura contradicts the Bible. The Bible teaches that the Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim 3:15). The Bible teaches that the Church is the final judge (Matt 18:17). The Bible teaches that we are to keep the traditions by word and epistle (2 Thess 2:15).

So, the teaching that the Bible alone is the sole rule of faith goes against the Bible.

But to begin a discussion, the list is so very long.

One at a time is fine.

Where can I read about “Holy Water” with people dipping their fingers into it and making the sign of the cross in the Bible?

This isn’t a question of doctrine, but of practice. And the practice is recommended but not required.

SIGN ON THE FOREHEAD
The sign of the cross is the “thau” which was prophecied in the Old Testament by which God will mark His people:

Ezechiel 9
4 And the Lord said to him: Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem: and mark Thau upon the foreheads of the men that sigh, and mourn for all the abominations that are committed in the midst thereof.

The “thau” is essentially the letter “T” which looks precisely like the Cross upon which Jesus was hung and which is the sign of our salvation.

SIGN OF THE CROSS

We make the sign of the Cross precisely because we preach Christ Crucified.

1 Corinthians 1
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:

To remember that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins:
Philippians 2
8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

And to remind ourselves to take up our cross and follow Jesus:
Matthew 10
38 And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.

HOLY WATER

Christ made the water holy when He deigned to be Baptized in it and the Holy Spirit descended upon it:

Matthew 3
16 And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.

Making the sign of the Cross and sprinkling the Holy Water on our foreheads also reminds us of our Baptism in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 28
19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

I happen to know Baptists who mark the sign of the cross on their foreheads and call it a blessing. My question is why don’t you practice this beneficial prayer?

Holy Water is also mentioned in the Old Testament:
Numbers 5
17 And he shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and he shall cast a little earth of the pavement of the tabernacle into it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[holy_wood]

The Rosary is simply a prayer if you don’t want to do it then don’t.

I personally do not. More out of laziness (I know that is not an excuse) than over any particular objection to it.

It relates to communion of the saints.

 

[holy_wood]

Though you have yet to state it most non-catholics have a problem with bowing to statues, the altar and the Pope.

Posture in Prayer, Veneration and Worship

Deut. 5:9 - God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

Rev. 3:9 - Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship.

Gen. 19:1 - Lot** bowed down to the ground in veneration** before two angels in Sodom.

Gen. 42:6 - Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph** (a man)** with the face to the ground.

Jos. 5:14 - Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an** angel**.

1 Sam. 28:14 - Saul bows down before Samuel (a man) with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

1 Kings 1:23 - the prophet Nathan bows down before King David (a man).

2 Kings 2:15 - the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha (a man) at Jericho.

1 Chron. 21:21 - Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David (a man) with his face to the ground.

2 Chron. 29:29-30 - King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar (an object) by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

Tobit 12:16 - Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.

Judith 14:7 - Achior the Ammonite **kneels before Judith venerating **her ( a woman) and praising God.

Psalm 138:2 - David bows down before God’s Holy Temple (an object).

Dan. 2:46 - the** king fell down on his face** paying homage to Daniel (a man) and commands that an offering be made to him.

Dan. 8:17 - Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.

1 Macc. 4:40,55 - Judas and the faithful fell face down to the ground to praise heaven and worship God.

 

[holy_wood]

Baptism is Salvific, Not Just Symbolic

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people “in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” Many Protestant churches are now teaching that baptism is only a symbolic ritual, and not what actually cleanses us from original sin. This belief contradicts Scripture and the 2,000 year-old teaching of the Church.

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.” Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required.

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and** then immediately being baptized.** If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, ***still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. ***

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins,” even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul’s acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.

Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ. Putting on Christ is not just symbolic. **Christ actually dwells within our soul. **

Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.”

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah’s ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience." Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body).

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. However, the Church has always taught that baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There are some exceptions to the rule because God is not bound by His sacraments.
Others can explain them or I can if you wish how.

 

[holy_wood]

Original Sin

Gen. 2:17 - the day you eat of that tree, you shall die. Adam and Eve ate of the tree, and they spiritually died. Some Protestant communities ignore or deny the reality of original sin. But if there is no original sin, then we do not need a Savior either. The horrors of our world testify to the reality of original sin.

Gen. 3:14-19 - God’s punishment for eating of the tree was cursing satan, increasing women’s pain in childbirth, and condemning man to toil and labor for his whole life.

Job 14:1,4 - man that is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble.** Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?** All humans are afflicted with original sin, and this includes babies as well. This is why the Catholic Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years.

Psalm 51:5 - “I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” We have inherited Adam’s sin from the moment of our conception. This is why babies need baptism – to wash away the original sin inherited from Adam and Eve.

Rom. 5:12 - sin came into the world through one man, Adam, and death came through this sin. This sin affects all people, men and women, babies and adults. Through the merits of Jesus Christ, we have the sacrament of baptism to wash away the sin that came through Adam.

Rom. 5:14 - death reigned from Adam to Moses, born from Adam’s original sin. This is a mystery we do not fully understand, but we must all acknowledge our propensity toward evil and our need of God.

Rom. 5:16 - the judgment following one single trespass brought condemnation for all. This means all have inherited the sin of Adam, and all must be washed clean of this sin in the waters of baptism.

Rom. 5:19 - **by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners. Original sin is passed on as part of the human condition, and only God in the flesh could atone for our sins by the eternal sacrifice of Himself. Through this sacrifice, God has re-opened the doors to heaven, and through baptism, we are once again made children of God. **

1 Cor. 15:21 - for by one man came death. In Adam, all die. In Christ, the new Adam, all now may live.
Eph. 2:1-3 - we were all dead through sin and all lived in the passions of our flesh until Christ came to save us.

 

[holy_wood]

ok tho=is college student should really go to bed so I calling it quits for the night. Hope I helped.