Differences between Eastern and Roman Catholics

[Nowhere_Man]

This question has probably been asked before, but I can’t really find an answer. Are there THEOLOGICAL differences between the Eastern and Roman rites of the Catholic Church? If someone could help with this question or point me to a thread or website that answers this well I would be very, very grateful.

 

[Aramis]

This question has probably been asked before, but I can’t really find an answer. Are there THEOLOGICAL differences between the Eastern and Roman rites of the Catholic Church? If someone could help with this question or point me to a thread or website that answers this well I would be very, very grateful.

Theology, yes. Dogma, not really. Doctrine, a little, but not much.

 

[Nowhere_Man]

How do they differ? A good website would be great, especially pertaining to the Ruthenian Rite because all the Eastern Churches in my state are Ruthenian. I don’t know much about Eastern Catholics and there seems to be so little information out there compared to the Latin Rite that I don’t know what to trust.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

oltv.tv
ecpubs.com
byzcath.org
ancientfaithradio.com
melkite.org
are all good places to start.

I’d also recommend checking out St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press for some good reading. They are Orthodox, but Eastern Catholics are basically similar in all things to their Orthodox brethren, save that we are “in communion with the Bishop of Rome as first among equals, according to the limits recognized by the Greek Fathers in the first millenium, during the time of union.”

Phillip

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

I would also offer a word of caution with the Ruthenians. They are currently undergoing a crisis that I’ve heard compared to the crisis in the Roman Church after the implementation of the Paul VI Missal. It’s not quite as extensive, but their bishops have released/made mandatory a new “translation” of the Divine Liturgy and edition of its music (according to the Ruthenian Tones) that has its faithful in an uproar. They have also often been considered some of the most “latinized” of the Byzantines. That being said, I have a great love for the Ruthenians because they were my introduction into Byzantine Christianity, and I work with two of them.

 

[bkovacs]

This question has probably been asked before, but I can’t really find an answer. Are there THEOLOGICAL differences between the Eastern and Roman rites of the Catholic Church? If someone could help with this question or point me to a thread or website that answers this well I would be very, very grateful.

Suggest you watch these videos to learn the difference.

youtube.com/watch?v=sT0m9N_Kkmg

youtube.com/watch?v=Y6x0iy-7Dd4

youtube.com/watch?v=17YdvKVl2HA

youtube.com/watch?v=XKEzS9o7ROU

 

[NEWCATHOLICJEFF]

How do they differ? A good website would be great, especially pertaining to the Ruthenian Rite because all the Eastern Churches in my state are Ruthenian. I don’t know much about Eastern Catholics and there seems to be so little information out there compared to the Latin Rite that I don’t know what to trust.

I agree. Once I get back to the US I am going to find a nearby Eastern Church so that I can experience the Mass. I am hearing a lot of positiver things. I would also like to find an Anglican Church (In communion) and experience it as well.

God Bless…

 

[Allyson]

In addition to the resources listed above. You can also look up the “Light for Life” series from God With US Publications.

Phillip mentions the new translation of the liturgy. All my critiques of the new liturgy aside, there is an attempt, at least in part I believe, to de-latinize somewhat. I only hope that this movement moves forward in future generations, i.e those of my own and onward.

Did there need to be a new translation…no, just a few tweaks like removing the filioque. Many of the people I know, who are average parishioners have only known a more latinized theology, watch EWTN (this is not a dis on the network), and only know the more latinized way of living an Eastern spirituality—something that goes back many generations to when their ancestors were still living in Europe.

It takes baby steps, and many would feel that the implementation of the liturgy was not one of them.

I have not seen as much uproar in the parishes as on the internet. There are parishes that I know of who still use the old books for various reasons.

Good luck in you quest for new knowledge!

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Thank you all for your replies, they were very helpful. I was also wondering if the “Order” of the Liturgies vary much between the 22 Rites, and if some one happens to know where I can find an “Order of Divine Liturgy” for the Ruthenian Rite. Sorry if I sound too lazy to do my own research, but I’ve tried and can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. I did, however, come across this and I’m wondering if this is an accurate description of the Divine Liturgy, and if it applies to the Ruthenian Rite Again many thanks for all the wonderful help.

 

[dvdjs]

I would also offer a word of caution with the Ruthenians. They are currently undergoing a crisis that I’ve heard compared to the crisis in the Roman Church after the implementation of the Paul VI Missal. It’s not quite as extensive, but their bishops have released/made mandatory a new “translation” of the Divine Liturgy and edition of its music (according to the Ruthenian Tones) that has its faithful in an uproar. They have also often been considered some of the most “latinized” of the Byzantines.

And I would offer you some words of caution in return.

It is wise to speak about what you have determined to be true, rather that just repeat what you’ve heard - so that you can be sure that you words convey the full truth. I don’t doubt that you can find a few who talk in terms of “crisis”, or who would compare the changes of the RDL to those of the Paul VI missal, but if you examine the facts, you will find that those comments cannot be supprted cogently.

You make an original claim that the faithful is in an uproar. I am certain that you cannot provide cogent support of this claim. Why do you make it?

You then return to unvetted opinions of others: “They have also often been considered some of the most “latinized” of the Byzantines.” I read this about the Maronites, Chaldeans, and Ukrainians. And I’ve seen the famous picture of the Melkite first Holy Communion of some decades ago. Do you have a point to discuss and defend? If not, then what is this other than a cheap shot.

That being said, I have a great love for the Ruthenians…

Sorry Philip: your willingness to engage in gossip against us is hardly the stuff of “great love”.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

And I would offer you some words of caution in return.

It is wise to speak about what you have determined to be true, rather that just repeat what you’ve heard - so that you can be sure that you words convey the full truth. I don’t doubt that you can find a few who talk in terms of “crisis”, or who would compare the changes of the RDL to those of the Paul VI missal, but if you examine the facts, you will find that those comments cannot be supprted cogently.

You make an original claim that the faithful is in an uproar. I am certain that you cannot provide cogent support of this claim. Why do you make it?

You then return to unvetted opinions of others: “They have also often been considered some of the most “latinized” of the Byzantines.” I read this about the Maronites, Chaldeans, and Ukrainians. And I’ve seen the famous picture of the Melkite first Holy Communion of some decades ago. Do you have a point to discuss and defend? If not, then what is this other than a cheap shot.

Sorry Philip: your willingness to engage in gossip against us is hardly the stuff of “great love”.

Hello dvdjs
I didn’t mean to take any cheap shots or engage in gossip. I’m only repeating what many Ruthenians that I know have said either directly to me, or that I’ve overheard in conversation. I’m also well aware of the famous Melkite picture. The great strength of the Melkites is that they’ve reformed themselves (more or less; some latinization still remains, I admit that). Although I have no exeprience of the Ukrainians, it seems that they’ve got two lines of thought, those who prefer their latinizations, and those who have actively engaged in delatinization (as can be seen at places like St. Elias in Ontario
(?) Canada). Anyhow, as this is not really on the topic of the thread, why don’t you send me a PM. I’d gladly discuss things with you. Again, I don’t mean to gossip or anything like that. I love the Ruthenians and am particularly fond of them because they were my first exposure to the Byzantine East.

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Thank you all for your replies, they were very helpful. I was also wondering if the “Order” of the Liturgies vary much between the 22 Rites, and if some one happens to know where I can find an “Order of Divine Liturgy” for the Ruthenian Rite. Sorry if I sound too lazy to do my own research, but I’ve tried and can’t seem to find what I’m looking for. I did, however, come across this and I’m wondering if this is an accurate description of the Divine Liturgy, and if it applies to the Ruthenian Rite Again many thanks for all the wonderful help.

Hello Nowhere Man:wave:
Just to give you a heads up, so you don’t have any people jumping down your throat, the Catholic Church is made up of the Roman Church and then the 22 particular sui juris Churches that make up the East. Each of these Churches follow certain liturgical Rites. For example, the Melkites, Romanians, Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Italo-Byzantines, etc. all use the Byzantine Rite. The Maronite Church has a completely different Rite, as do the Coptics, the Armenians, the Assyrians, etc. Many Eastern Catholics are offended when they are referred to as a “Rite” instead of a “Church.” I just wanted to let you know that in order to help you understand us Eastern Catholics and our sensibilities.

That being said, you will have a difficult time finding an “Order” of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom if what you’re looking for is akin to the Roman Missal. You can easily find the basic text of the Divine Liturgy, but it’ll really be no more than a skeleton of the Liturgy as there are so many variable parts that require separate books. I think the book you’re looking for would be a Liturgicon/Sluzhebnik. I would recommend going to melkite.org and checking out the text for the Divine Liturgy that can be found on that website. Maybe later I’ll post a direct link to it, unless you find it before I get the chance. Also, each particular Church has its own slight variation of the Liturgy, so it could differ between Melkites, Ukrainians, Romanians, and Ruthenians. For Ruthenian material check out byzsempress.org. I wasn’t able to find the texts for the Divine Liturgy on there, but maybe you’ll have better luck. Also, there is a small yellow book entitled “Divine Liturgy in English and Slavonic” available for $8.00 from ecpubs.com. Just go to that site, click on the “liturgical books” link, and scroll way down (almost to the bottom of the page. That book will give you a slightly older text than what is currently in use at the majority of Ruthenian parishes in this country, but it has the advantage of having transliterated Church Slavonic on one side so that you can learn to sing those parts as well (should the parish you attend also do some parts in Slavonic).

As to the link. I usually find Orthodoxwiki is a decent source, but more as a springboard to other sources than anything else.

Hope this helps.

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip

 

[Nowhere_Man]

Hello Nowhere Man:wave:
Just to give you a heads up, so you don’t have any people jumping down your throat, the Catholic Church is made up of the Roman Church and then the 22 particular sui juris Churches that make up the East. Each of these Churches follow certain liturgical Rites. For example, the Melkites, Romanians, Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Italo-Byzantines, etc. all use the Byzantine Rite. The Maronite Church has a completely different Rite, as do the Coptics, the Armenians, the Assyrians, etc. Many Eastern Catholics are offended when they are referred to as a “Rite” instead of a “Church.” I just wanted to let you know that in order to help you understand us Eastern Catholics and our sensibilities.

That being said, you will have a difficult time finding an “Order” of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom if what you’re looking for is akin to the Roman Missal. You can easily find the basic text of the Divine Liturgy, but it’ll really be no more than a skeleton of the Liturgy as there are so many variable parts that require separate books. I think the book you’re looking for would be a Liturgicon/Sluzhebnik. I would recommend going to melkite.org and checking out the text for the Divine Liturgy that can be found on that website. Maybe later I’ll post a direct link to it, unless you find it before I get the chance. Also, each particular Church has its own slight variation of the Liturgy, so it could differ between Melkites, Ukrainians, Romanians, and Ruthenians. For Ruthenian material check out byzsempress.org. I wasn’t able to find the texts for the Divine Liturgy on there, but maybe you’ll have better luck. Also, there is a small yellow book entitled “Divine Liturgy in English and Slavonic” available for $8.00 from ecpubs.com. Just go to that site, click on the “liturgical books” link, and scroll way down (almost to the bottom of the page. That book will give you a slightly older text than what is currently in use at the majority of Ruthenian parishes in this country, but it has the advantage of having transliterated Church Slavonic on one side so that you can learn to sing those parts as well (should the parish you attend also do some parts in Slavonic).

As to the link. I usually find Orthodoxwiki is a decent source, but more as a springboard to other sources than anything else.

Hope this helps.

ICXC + NIKA,
Phillip

Thanks so much for your help! The people in this sub-forum have been so much nicer than the people in the others. Last night I did come across what I was looking for as an example of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom here and all I was looking for was the unchanging pieces of the Divine Liturgy.