Differences between Mormon Missions and Catholic Missions

[soren1]

Diana, still trying not to be snarky, and utterly failing.

That’s ok. Snarkiness is not a vice when you use it to defend yourself.

 

[Eliza10]

I had served in the Italian Capuchin missions in the province of Zambezia. … …

Thank you so much for sharing that, Kathleen! It was really interesting, the whole thing. I hope that someday, when I am not in the thick of other responsibilities, I will have the courage to serve in some kind of Mission. There are many kinds.

Back in college I had a true “I found Jesus” experience. I delayed going forward at a church to proclaim it publicly (which I was told was the next step) because I saw it as a permanent turning to Him – not something I could change my mind about later, like changing my major. When my Christian friend questioned me on what was holding me back, I realized I was afraid that God would call me to do something I would not want to do, like: become a missionary in Africa! (I was thinking about large bugs and other crawly things…). My friend told me that if God wanted me to do that He would change my heart about it first. So I was satisfired with that answer and I went forward.

 

[Eliza10]

That’s ok. Snarkiness is not a vice when you use it to defend yourself.

So, “The end justifies the means”?

 

[Eliza10]

…
Many Mormon missionaries go because they are guilted, pressured and talked into it and because it is expected.

I can see this for sure, as you want to please your parents and your community and you have an hour of classes at church every single day before high school to get you ready to take the mission. And this expectation, or “proof” that you are a good and faithful Mormon, is a milestone set before you from a young age when you grow up Mormon.

… Many LDS women will not date someone unless he is an returned missionary.

Do you think its because of their training? Exhortions that that is the mark of a true Mormon man?

… LDS girls would often “accidently” brush my thigh to see if I wearing garments…a tell-tale that you have served a mission

Seriously?? This actually happened more than once?? Are you sure you are not exagerating because of weariness arguing this topic? (Which I would totally understand). Anyway, I don’t get it. Why didn’t they just ask if they want to know - “Are you committed enough as a Mormon to wear the garments?” Better that than what you describe, which seems immodest.

 

[dianaiad]

So, “The end justifies the means”?

No…IT’s more like: *“Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l’attaque il se défend.” * (translation; “this animal is evil. when attacked, it defends itself.”)

 

[Eliza10]

That was not a ‘validation of your observation,’ Eliza. It was, if you had read the entire post, a correction of it…

Your words I highlighted are the words that validated my thought. Thats why I highlighted them: so you would see why I said that it was a validation.

We do not organize our missionary efforts the same way, precisely, that Catholics might do. That does not, however, mean that our efforts are (as the posts in this thread certainly seem to be saying, in a very condescending ‘look down their nose’ sort of way) that our efforts are inferior or nonexistent…

The implication that the different aim is inferior is your own here. I prefer our aim. I expect you prefer yours.

I did not say - and I am sure no one else said either - that your efforts are non-existant. You can read my entire posts and see for sure that what I say is true.

The fact is, it is quite common for Mormons to serve two missions, if possible; one when we are young for preaching the gospel as the first priority, along with service, and one later in life, with our spouses, in a mission devoted entirely to service of some sort. .

Okay, yes, I am wondering how* common* is this. This is a brand new thing for me to hear about. I know it is common for Mormons to do a mission after highschool. That I know. I did not ever hear it is common for Mormons to do a second one, later.

Is this just me? Is this news to anyone else, too??

Eliza…

Diana.

They are NOT a 'small group." Just because YOU haven’t heard of them …doesn’t mean that they are a ‘small group,’ insignificant or in any other way inferior in intent or in work to anything that you might be more familiar with.

I am not denying that these grown-up service missions groups exist. You say they do, and I have no reason to believe you are not telling the truth. What puzzles me is that you say they are common, and that most Mormons serve* two* missions in their life.

Its the “common” and “most” that has me puzzled. It doesn’t match up with what I have seen. The fact is that young Mormon missionaries are a common sight I’ve seen all my life. Groups of grown adult Mormons in service missions are something I have NEVER seen, or heard of, actually. [Again, I am not denying they exist. You told me they do. I accept that.]

But why is the reality I am seeing all my life not matching the reality you are telling me about? That is a mystery to me.

Your friend has a very busy life, I’m sure. Perhaps some day she and her husband will consider such a mission. That she hasn’t talked about it to YOU doesn’t mean that the thought has not occurred to her. She may well be avoiding the topic with you for the same reason she won’t talk about what goes on in the Temple with you. .

I don’t know what to say to this. It sounds to me (here and in previous posts) as if you feel you know my friend and my friendship better than I. :hypno: Of course that is crazy, so I am stumped.

And I didn’t say a thing about what she has told me about Temple, what she has/hasn’t/will/won’t say -so where did that come from???

It’s pretty obvious that you disapprove of her faith, y’know. .

I think maybe you are projecting. Reading things that aren’t there.
We are two good friends of different faiths. We both embrace our own faith. If either of us thought the other’s faith was better than our own, we’d convert. Its just that simple.

Diana, still trying not to be snarky, and utterly failing.

:sad_yes: Yup, you did. If you really don’t want to be snarky, I have a suggestion. I’ll PM it.

 

[Eliza10]

No…IT’s more like: *“Cet animal est très méchant, Quand on l’attaque il se défend.” *(translation; “this animal is evil. when attacked, it defends itself.”)

You’ve quoted that before. Are you an animal? I don’t think you want to go there.

 

[Murdock]

Eliza

In 2009, the Church had 51,736 teaching (proselytizing) missionaries, young men and women, who do perform some service, and 8,167 Welfare and Humanitarian missionaries, usually older people usually couples (“senior missionaries”), who serve those in need without regard to religion. So it is correct that there are a lot more of the teaching missionaries you are used to, but the number of senior missionaries seems to be increasing over time.

The list of current needs (openings) for senior missionaries used to come out every two weeks but I think that it is now updated weekly. Likely, there is a copy on your friend’s ward bulletin board in her meetinghouse.

Right now, they need missionaries for distribution of wheelchairs and other assistance devices, vision care training, clean water provision, neonatal resucitation training and agricultural production.

Right now openings are in Argentina, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ecuador, Nepal, Ukraine, Slovakia and Syria.

When you volunteer, you agree to do whatever you are assigned wherever you are assigned, but they will not send you somewhere that is unsuitable to your health or financial situation (the Church pays your air fare there and back but otherwise you pay your own way). You work six days a week and there are no vacations or holidays.

I cannot wait.

Murdock

 

[soren1]

So, “The end justifies the means”?

No, what I mean is that this thread has a lot of people making a very shallow line of argument, which is a version of “we are holier than ye.” I can’t abide this sort of thing. A couple weeks ago a former Catholic Mormon apologist named Eric Schuster put up some posts and argued, more or less, that Mormons have better morals by and large than Catholics, are more devoted, etc., and that this is a sign that theirs is the true Church. No one was mildly impressed by his argument, and he left in what seemed to me to be a bit of a huff. Yet now we are committing the same fallacy from the Catholic side, arguing from our own presumed moral superiority. That might make Catholics feel good all over, but I wouldn’t expect Mormons to take it seriously, and I sympathize if they find it offensive.

Besides, the line of comparison between Catholic missions and Mormon missions is false anyway, because Mormons divide their labor differently from the way we do. If a comparison were to be made, it should be made between Catholic charitable activities in general and Mormon charitable activities general. I don’t know what the outcome of that comparison would be, but I doubt it would be embarrassing for the Mormons.

 

[zerinus]

Besides, the line of comparison between Catholic missions and Mormon missions is false anyway, because Mormons divide their labor differently from the way we do. If a comparison were to be made, it should be made between Catholic charitable activities in general and Mormon charitable activities general. I don’t know what the outcome of that comparison would be, but I doubt it would be embarrassing for the Mormons.

Mormons and Catholics have cooperated a lot in the past on charitable activities. The LDS Church has donated considerable amounts to Catholic charitable organizations in areas of special need where the LDS Church did not have a strong presence, but the Catholic Church did, and had proved its effectiveness.

 

[dianaiad]

Your words I highlighted are the words that validated my thought. Thats why I highlighted them: so you would see why I said that it was a validation.

The implication that the different aim is inferior is your own here. I prefer our aim. I expect you prefer yours.

I did not say - and I am sure no one else said either - that your efforts are non-existant. You can read my entire posts and see for sure that what I say is true.

Okay, yes, I am wondering how* common* is this. This is a brand new thing for me to hear about. I know it is common for Mormons to do a mission after highschool. That I know. I did not ever hear it is common for Mormons to do a second one, later.

Is this just me? Is this news to anyone else, too??

In my own family, I’d say that about a quarter of us do service missions upon retirement. I won’t be able to…I’m a widow and need to care for my 80 year old parents. However, before he died my husband and I were both looking forward to doing so; it would have been his first mission and my second. Both my sisters and their husbands are going to serve such a mission; they are saving up for it; in fact, my next youngest sister and her husband will be going on their’s within the next year. I"m jealous.

The truth is this: the fact that you aren’t aware of this aspect of LDS mission work and charitable work is not surprising to me at all, but you need to be aware that the fact that you are NOT aware of it is not proof that it doesn’t happen, and isn’t what we claim it is.

Diana.

I am not denying that these grown-up service missions groups exist. You say they do, and I have no reason to believe you are not telling the truth. What puzzles me is that you say they are common, and that most Mormons serve* two* missions in their life.

Its the “common” and “most” that has me puzzled.

Me too, since I did not write ‘most." "Common,’ yes. “Most?” Please show me where I wrote ‘most’ anywhere in my posts regarding this.

It doesn’t match up with what I have seen. The fact is that young Mormon missionaries are a common sight I’ve seen all my life. Groups of grown adult Mormons in service missions are something I have NEVER seen, or heard of, actually. [Again, I am not denying they exist. You told me they do. I accept that.]

That’s encouraging.

But why is the reality I am seeing all my life not matching the reality you are telling me about? That is a mystery to me.

I don’t know what to say to this. It sounds to me (here and in previous posts) as if you feel you know my friend and my friendship better than I. :hypno: Of course that is crazy, so I am stumped.

And I didn’t say a thing about what she has told me about Temple, what she has/hasn’t/will/won’t say -so where did that come from???

Now that one I do know, because if you tell me that she is a faithful Mormon, then she keeps her Temple covenants. One of those is that she doesn’t talk about Temple matters outside Temple walls. Certainly she can tell you WHAT, but not go into details or describe ceremonies or gossip about the nature of what happens.

So…if you are correct, and she is a faithful LDS, then she doesn’t talk to you about Temple ceremonies. If she DOES talk to you about them, then you have a very different problem—because faithful Latter-day Saints simply don’t, even with each other. What happens in the Temple is sacred and holds a special place in our spiritual lives. We don’t trot them out for others to disparage, belittle or criticise, because if that happens, we might end up carrying those memories back into the Temple with us. We want to keep that time very separate–very special and very spiritual.

The fact that you don’t know this means only that you don’t know as much about the CoJCoLDS as you think you do, and that only means that it might be a really good idea to stop assuming that if you don’t know something about us, that it doesn’t exist.

Like missionaries who go specifically to provide service to others. By the way, this type of missionary generally gets sent to areas that actually need the service–which is probably not your neighborhood.

I think maybe you are projecting. Reading things that aren’t there.

Now that’s irony, given that you think that I claimed that 'most Mormons serve two missions." in the complete absence of my having written any such thing.

We are two good friends of different faiths. We both embrace our own faith. If either of us thought the other’s faith was better than our own, we’d convert. Its just that simple.

:sad_yes: Yup, you did. If you really don’t want to be snarky, I have a suggestion. I’ll PM it.

Thank you for the PM, by the way. I will absolutely take your advice.

 

[dianaiad]

You’ve quoted that before. Are you an animal? I don’t think you want to go there.

Let’s ‘lemon squeeze’ this one.

The translation of this saying is* “This animal is very bad (or evil)”* meaning that the speaker is warning about the evil nature of this animal. He is calling it bad: evil. Why?

Because: “when attacked, it defends itself.” The irony is obvious; the attacker is calling his victim evil for having the gall to defend himself against the attack.

It’s not a comment on the ANIMAL, in other words. It’s an indictment of the speaker, who is being hypocritical; figuring that he is not evil for attacking, but that his victim IS evil for not allowing that attack to take place without defense.

I really hate when I have to explain this stuff.

 

[SirThomasMore]

]I can see this for sure, as you want to please your parents and your community and you have an hour of classes at church every single day before high school to get you ready to take the mission. And this expectation, or “proof” that you are a good and faithful Mormon, is a milestone set before you from a young age when you grow up Mormon.

from the day I got baptized, I had people asking me about me going on a mission…the Bishop, the EQ PResident, other Mormons…it was a weekly thing…and I was 23 and a college grad…

Do you think its because of their training? Exhortions that that is the mark of a true Mormon man?

Partly

Seriously?? This actually happened more than once?? Are you sure you are not exagerating because of weariness arguing this topic? (Which I would totally understand). Anyway, I don’t get it. Why didn’t they just ask if they want to know - “Are you committed enough as a Mormon to wear the garments?” Better that than what you describe, which seems immodest.

Seriously. Yes, more than once. And not just me. I was told about this by lots of LDS guys long before I served a mission

 

[Eliza10]

Eliza

In 2009, the Church had 51,736 teaching (proselytizing) missionaries, young men and women, who do perform some service, and 8,167 Welfare and Humanitarian missionaries, usually older people usually couples (“senior missionaries”), who serve those in need without regard to religion. So it is correct that there are a lot more of the teaching missionaries you are used to, but the number of senior missionaries seems to be increasing over time.

The list of current needs (openings) for senior missionaries used to come out every two weeks but I think that it is now updated weekly. Likely, there is a copy on your friend’s ward bulletin board in her meetinghouse.

Right now, they need missionaries for distribution of wheelchairs and other assistance devices, vision care training, clean water provision, neonatal resucitation training and agricultural production.

Right now openings are in Argentina, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ecuador, Nepal, Ukraine, Slovakia and Syria.

When you volunteer, you agree to do whatever you are assigned wherever you are assigned, but they will not send you somewhere that is unsuitable to your health or financial situation (the Church pays your air fare there and back but otherwise you pay your own way). You work six days a week and there are no vacations or holidays.

I cannot wait.

Murdock

Thanks for explaining that. I know Mormons are busy about service, and that the service is not exclusive to their own - that it spills over or is sometimes aimed at non-Mormons, particularly in relief efforts, like the one the poster mentioned here that involved everyone wearing the yellow shirts. All that service is very commendable!

 

[Annie_B]

Dianaiad -
you are indeed serving a second mission - here at CA, and I thank you for your service
Annie

 

[Eliza10]

No, what I mean is that this thread has a lot of people making a very shallow line of argument, which is a version of “we are holier than ye.” I can’t abide this sort of thing…

What?! Where??

A couple weeks ago… a former Catholic …put up some posts [saying] …Mormons have better morals… and …[this says] …theirs is the true Church. No one was mildly impressed…he left in …a huff. Yet now we are committing the same fallacy from the Catholic side, arguing from our own presumed moral superiority. .

Please cite examples. I am not seeing what you are seeing. Who is feeling “moral superiority”?? Explain why you accuse this.

That might make Catholics feel good all over, … .

So you think this thread is about Catholics feeling morally superior, and that the posters to this thread think they are “better”, and that this “makes them feel good all over”? I am not seeing that motive. I see levelheaded logical straightforward commentary and somehow you are seeing something quite different. Please cite what is drawing you to this accusation!

…but I wouldn’t expect Mormons to take it seriously, and I sympathize if they find it offensive…

Well I am not taking this seriously because I don’t see it being said!

Is it possible that because you see a Mormon poster here express that he/she feels offended, that then an offense must have surely been made? Because I am supposing that is the assumption you are making.

The fact is that sometimes folks are just plain defensive - seeing offense where none has been made.

Besides, the line of comparison between Catholic missions and Mormon missions is false anyway, because Mormons divide their labor differently from the way we do. .

If you read my original post to this thread, you will see that that is what this thread is about. I said I think that Mormons and Catholics have a different approach to what Missions are. That they play out differently. I wondered if anyone else had observed or concluded what I had. So the discussion is all about that - the differences.

That some prefer one approach to another does not automatically follow that because its their religion doing it the way they prefer, they “feel morally superior”.

If a comparison were to be made, it should be made between Catholic charitable activities in general and Mormon charitable activities general. I don’t know what the outcome of that comparison would be, but I doubt it would be embarrassing for the Mormons .

No one is trying to embarass the Mormons. (Who??) Perhaps you sense some Mormon poster’s defensiveness, and feel you need to rush to their rescue by putting down the “offenders”?? It is a good thing to have empathy, but the trouble with that approach is that you need to be sure an offense has been made before accusing.

 

[Eliza10]

Mormons and Catholics have cooperated a lot in the past on charitable activities. . Thats a great thing!

zerinus:
The LDS Church has donated considerable amounts to Catholic charitable organizations in areas of special need where the LDS Church did not have a strong presence, but the Catholic Church did, and had proved its effectiveness. Wow. Thats nice.

 

[twopekinguys]

Dianaiad -
you are indeed serving a second mission - here at CA, and I thank you for your service
Annie

Funny you should mention that, since we have this.

sltrib.com/sltrib/home/49942960-76/church-missionaries-online-lds.html.csp

"The Internet is the new “town square,” said Ron Wilson, manager of Internet and marketing for the church. “And Mormons are taking to it like never before.”

 

[dianaiad]

What?! Where??

Your opening post contained the following wording:
"Eliza:

It seems to me that Catholic Missions and Missionaries are more about serving the poor and the needy, in contrast to Mormon Missions and Missionaries, which are about getting others in the fold and taking caring of their own fold.

That’s pretty specific.

There isn’t any real way of seeing that as anything BUT 'holier than thou." Catholics take care of the poor and needy, but Mormons only want converts and limit their services to taking care of their own.

Let’s go to another example from your OP:

Eliza:

Mormon Missionaries - (which seem to be almost all the young people required/strongly encouraged to fund their own two-year mission) - seem to be all about getting getitng converts to the Mormon faith.

Catholic Missionaries seem to be of many stripe, but have in common the goal to bring Christ and Catholic truth to the unchurched and the needy, and to serve those who have no one to serve them.

There again, the wording you used here is telling: Mormons only want converts, but Catholics, in contrast, want to bring the ‘unchurched’ to Christ (wait…isn’t that 'getting converts?..hmmmn…) and to provide service to others. This is a very clear criticism of Mormonism while praising Catholicism.

Eliza:

Catholic Mission seems to be all about serving others based on need, no matter if Catholic or not Catholic. And you can be served by Catholic Missions and never convert and that’s okay (an example is the Mission work of Mother Teresa).

That’s fine…a direct contradiction to what you wote earlier about 'bringing Christ and the Catholic faith to the unchurched," though. Here you are again saying that Catholic missions are all about serving the poor…but…

Eliza:

The Mormon MIssions seem to be about serving those needy in their own fold, with some spill-over to others who aren’t Mormon - but non_mormons aren’t the goal. I see NO examples of ANY Mormon Missions that are ALL about serving the non-Mormon needy like Mother Teresa’s, which is all aobut serving the non-Catholic needy.

To me the contrast of what Catholics see what Missions to be and Mormons see Missions to be is stark.

The difference is ‘stark,’ is it?

Can you honestly read this and NOT see the problem with the way it is presented?

lease cite examples. I am not seeing what you are seeing. Who is feeling “moral superiority”?? Explain why you accuse this.

As you can see, I just did. Do an exercise here: Go through your OP and substitute “Catholic” for “Mormon” and vice versa. See what your opinion is then.

:So you think this thread is about Catholics feeling morally superior, and that the posters to this thread think they are “better”, and that this “makes them feel good all over”?

Not from everybody, no. However, it is a little difficult to read your OP without getting that impression.

: I am not seeing that motive. I see levelheaded logical straightforward commentary and somehow you are seeing something quite different. Please cite what is drawing you to this accusation!

Well I am not takign this seriously because I don’t see it being said!

It quite often happens that people do not recognize these things in their own writing.

:Is it possible that because you see a Mormon poster here express that he/she feels offended, that then an offense must have surely been made? Because I am supposing that is the assumption you are making.

The fact is that sometimes folks are just plain defensive - seeing offense where none has been made.

What, a giant King’s X here, or fingers crossed behind one’s back…or a big ‘just kidding’ at the end of a hurtful sentence coupled with a bewildered 'What did I SAY?" look?

I"m sorry, but there isn’t any real way to read your OP without seeing a giant 'Catholics-good-unselfish-we help everybody-we are bringing the gospel to all but Mormons are selfish people who only want converts and will only help their own" condemnation in there.

Since I am not the only one who has noticed it, you might want to take a look at the situation.

:If you read my original post to this thread, you will see that that is what this thread is about. I said I think that Mormons and Catholics have a different approach to what Missions are. That they play out differently. I wondered if anyone else had observed or concluded what I had. So the discussion is all aobut that - the differences.

No, the OP was you inviting everybody to agree with you that Mormons are selfish opportunists who only want converts, and Catholics are saintly philanthropists who would never think about actually trying to convert someone while healing their ills.

Couple this with the fact that you didn’t do your research to see what we actually DO before you started criticising it, the motive seems rather clear.

:That some prefer one approach to another does not automatically follow that because its their religion doing it the way they prefer, they “feel morally superior”.

No one is trying to embarass the Mormons. (Who??) Perhaps you sense some Mormon posters defensiveness, and feel you need to rush to their rescue by putting down the “offenders”?? It is a good thing to have empathy, but the trouble with that approach is that you need to be sure an offense has been made before accusing.

If you truly are honestly confused as to why anybody would take offense to your post, I hope that I have shown you how and why it would rub the target of it very much the wrong way.

…and why others also noticed it.

 

[Kielbasi]

Mormon Missions are staffed by young people serving a limited term of service in the work.

Catholic Missions are usually staffed by religious brothers and sisters who make lifetime commitments to the work. Protestant missions are similar to Catholic ones as the married couples they send to the mission field make long term commitments and aren’t looking to finish up and reenter secular society.

Just two different paradigms at work here.