Differences - Born Again/Catholicism

[liesinties]

Hi, my knowledge of Catholicism is limited to say the least so I have a few questions regarding salvation and your beliefs etc. I’m a Born Again Christian (I live in England, I mention that as I’ve heard Born Again Christian’s in America have a slightly different, or possibly more conservative belief structure, but again my knowledge is limited).

Anyway, the questions are as follows, and please be kind if I ask anything that in anyway insults your beliefs as it is not my intention. I have no intention of insulting anyone’s beliefs all I want to know are the main differences between my faith and yours as I’ve always been brought up to believe certain things about other faiths but not actually asked people of those faiths.

1. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God/God/Part of the Trinity?
2. Is his resurrection included in your bible, as in he rose from the grave, hence forgiving all our sins past, present and future?
3. What significance does Mary play? I of course realise she was the mother of Jesus but how did her part become more important in your beliefs than it does in protestant/born again/etc.
4. How does the pope/priest/bishop/etc election work, how is a man of God given his ability to forgive other people for their sins? Is there a system in which he is chosen without ‘man’ playing a factor in his appointment?
5. I’ve been taught that you can only get to heaven by believing Jesus is the Son of God, that he rose again, asking him into your life and asking for forgiveness. Is there a belief/process for your acceptance to heaven? Is it the same?
6. What is your definition of being a ‘Christian’ and being a ‘Catholic’ and is there a difference? Do you feel offended by other Christian groups not referring to Catholics as Christian?
7. Why is there a handbook (Catechism)? When was it added and who wrote it? When did the distinction between Catholic’s and Christians arise and was it a result of this book?

I think that’s it but I may have more questions after a reply has been given. I really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and help with this as I’m trying to realise and understand my faith taking fully into consideration other faiths and beliefs and finding the belief that fits into my philosophy.

Thanks again

 

[joshua_b]

This is quite a list but I will try to take this one on.
1.ABSOLUTELY
2.ABSOLUTELY; our Canon (included books) of the New Testament is exactly the same as yours.
3.To understand this, you have to understand first the Catholic concept of the Body of Christ, adn subsequently the Communion of Saints. I would be happy to go into that in great detail, but I will reserve this topic for a little later so I can deal with the other questions first.
4.This is actually several different questions. Again I will be happy to discuss them, just not on this initial post…please be patient with me on that.
5.Catholics believe that you can only get to Heaven through Grace, which is a free gift from God. We can do nothing to “earn” our salvation. But Salvation is a gift, and Catholics believe that we are capable, through our own free will in thought and action, of refusing to accept the gift of Salvation on the terms that God offers it to us.
6.All Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic and YES we are very offended when others term Catholics as “not Christian”.
7.The Catechism is not “added” to anything, it is merely a systematically written presentation of all that the Catholic Church believes, those beliefs being based on Scripture and the teachings of the earliest Church (which was established by Jesus). As far as the distinctions you speak of, again, we can go into much more detail as the discussion progresses.

 

[joshua_b]

Now I will deal with question 3, the question of Mary. Lets lay some groundwork here.Catholics believe that the Body of Christ is not separable, even by death. God is present with us, and when we enter Heaven, we will “share in his greatness” and will still be present (not physically) with those here on earth. Death does not separate the Body of Christ, because Jesus conquered death on the Cross. The Communion of Saints is the collection of ALL of those who have died physically and gone to Heaven. We believe that we continue to use our God given talents and gifts for the Glory of God even after we physically die. Mary’s purpose on this earth was to pray for us and lead us to Jesus, and once she had died, she continued with that responsibility in Heaven. We, as Catholics, ask Mary to pray for us and use her to help lead us to Jesus. This has been the practice from the earliest recorded history of Christianity, and became LESS important to certain Christians who split from the Catholic Church during or after the Protestant reformation approximately 500 years ago.

 

[Marquette]

Greetings Liesinties -

May I suggest you purchase (or get at your library) a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is out in paperback for $7 at any bookstore. You can read every single thing you wanted to know and were willing to ask in that book! I think you will be as pleasantly surprised as I was. I’m becoming Catholic on Holy Saturday. :clapping:

 

[joshua_b]

As a totally unrelated side-note…God bless you Marquette !! I will pray for you on Holy Saturday, as I sit in the Cathedral Basillica St Louis and watch my wife to be be accepted into the Catholic Church. Welcome home to Rome.

 

[Jeanette_L]

Marquette:

Greetings Liesinties -

May I suggest you purchase (or get at your library) a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is out in paperback for $7 at any bookstore. You can read every single thing you wanted to know and were willing to ask in that book! I think you will be as pleasantly surprised as I was. I’m becoming Catholic on Holy Saturday. :clapping:

As a Born-Again Christian, I also found the Catechism of the Catholic Church a complete surprise, extremely helpful, filled with such unexpected beauty and wisdom, and consequently am also being accepted into the Catholic Church on Holy Saturday! :bounce:

Congratulations to all who are coming home with us this Easter!

 

[Della]

liesinties:

I’ve always been brought up to believe certain things about other faiths but not actually asked people of those faiths.

(Edited for length only)

Welcome, liesinties! How are things there in “jolly ole England?” Here’s my responses:

1. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God/God/Part of the Trinity?

I laughed out loud when I read this because the Trinity is the core of the Catholic faith. It was the Catholic Church that hammered out the relationship of the 3 persons of the Trinity very early on. If it hadn’t, you wouldn’t believe it today!

1. Is his resurrection included in your bible, as in he rose from the grave, hence forgiving all our sins past, present and future?

Easter is the highest feast day of the Catholic Church! As to all our sins, past, present, and future, no we don’t believe that. We believe that all the sins we’ve confessed and/or asked forgiveness for are forgiven, but God doesn’t anticipate that we will sin. He hopes that we won’t sin in the present and the future. And we can obtain the grace not to sin–especially not to commit grave (mortal) sins.

1. What significance does Mary play? I of course realise she was the mother of Jesus but how did her part become more important in your beliefs than it does in protestant/born again/etc.

Mary didn’t “become more important in [our] beliefs than it does in protestant/born again/etc.” Protestants have either rejected what the Church always taught about her or they won’t accept defined dogma grown out of doctrine always taught by the Church.

1. How does the pope/priest/bishop/etc election work, how is a man of God given his ability to forgive other people for their sins? Is there a system in which he is chosen without ‘man’ playing a factor in his appointment?

God works through men–he always has and always will. Have you never heard of the laying of of hands for ordination? Apparently your faith community simply skips over biblical references to ordination and the charism of absolution plainly taught by and given to the Apostles by Jesus himself (cf. Mt. 16:13-20).

1. I’ve been taught that you can only get to heaven by believing Jesus is the Son of God, that he rose again, asking him into your life and asking for forgiveness. Is there a belief/process for your acceptance to heaven? Is it the same?

Salvation comes by baptism, be it baptism in water, by blood (martyrdom) or by desire. This is the biblical teaching about salvation. Those who know of Christ are expected to believe in the Creed (Nicene in particular), which covers the other points you raised.

1. What is your definition of being a ‘Christian’ and being a ‘Catholic’ and is there a difference? Do you feel offended by other Christian groups not referring to Catholics as Christian?

Catholicism IS Christianity. And yes, it is deeply offensive for other Christians (who are only considered Christian by the Church because of their trinitarian baptism) to tell Catholics (who belong the ancient Church founded by Christ himself) that we aren’t Christians!

1. Why is there a handbook (Catechism)? When was it added and who wrote it? When did the distinction between Catholic’s and Christians arise and was it a result of this book?

The Catechism is a compendium of the teachings of the Catholic Church approved by the Magisterium (all the bishops of the Catholic Church including the pope). It was compiled by a committee appointed to do this task. The distinction between Protestants and Catholics came at the Reformation with Luther and all that, which means the Church had existed for 16 centuries before the first Protestant ever lived. The teachings of the Church weren’t taught through a one volume book at that time, so no, it had nothing to do with the unfortunate results of the Reformation.

I think that’s it but I may have more questions after a reply has been given. I really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut and help with this as I’m trying to realise and understand my faith taking fully into consideration other faiths and beliefs and finding the belief that fits into my philosophy.

Thanks again

We welcome all your questions, but it would be much better to ask them one at a time so we can discuss each one more fully. Also, with respect, the teachings of the Catholic Church founded by Christ don’t have to fit into anyone’s philosophy. Rather, we are to conform our philosophy to that of Christ’s one, holy, catholic (universal) and apostolic Church.

 

[JSmitty2005]

1. Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God/God/Part of the Trinity?

Absolutely. Do you? It’s not explicit in the Bible. This is obvious considering that some Protestant groups deny the Trinity. This is a doctrine that was formulated by the Catholic Church! At the first Council of Nicaea in 325AD (before Bibles existed ), the consubstantiality of the Father and the Son was defined. Then, at the first Council of Constantinople in 381AD, Macedonianism was condemned as heresy, thus declaring the Holy Spirit to be divine. This is basically how the idea of the Trinity came about. (At least that’s my understanding of it. Anyone that knows any different, please correct me!)

2. Is his resurrection included in your bible, as in he rose from the grave, hence forgiving all our sins past, present and future?

Yes. Our New Testament is the same as yours…or should I say that yours is the same as ours? You got the Bible from the Catholic Church. For more, go here.

3. What significance does Mary play? I of course realise she was the mother of Jesus but how did her part become more important in your beliefs than it does in protestant/born again/etc.

Mary is the Mother of God (aka Theotokos). This was proclaimed at the Council of Ephesus in 431AD in response to Nestorianism which denied Christ’s divinity (even though both of these beliefs were held long before this council). All other beliefs and devotions stem from that unique position that one very special woman was granted in salvation history. By the way, our beliefs didn’t “become” anything. They always were. The two brands of ancient Christianity - Catholic and Orthodox - have always had great reverence for Mary which is keeping with her statement that all generations would call her blessed. It was modern Protestantism that did away with devotion to Mary because it was considered to be too Catholic. All of the original “reformers” had a great devotion to her and believed in all the currently uniquely Catholic beliefs regarding her like her perpetual virginity, sinlessness, etc. Finally, we do NOT worship Mary. This was condemned as the heresy of Collyridianism which existed about 1600 years ago. She is my spiritual mother, but not my God.

4. How does the pope/priest/bishop/etc election work, how is a man of God given his ability to forgive other people for their sins? Is there a system in which he is chosen without ‘man’ playing a factor in his appointment?

God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, “‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’” (John 20:21–23). This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was. For more, go here.

Cont. below…

 

[JSmitty2005]

5. I’ve been taught that you can only get to heaven by believing Jesus is the Son of God, that he rose again, asking him into your life and asking for forgiveness. Is there a belief/process for your acceptance to heaven? Is it the same?

We believe that also, but not to the exclusion of other necessary things like baptism (“WATER and spirit” John 3:5 and “baptism…now saves you” 1 Pet. 3:21) and good works (“you see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” James 2:24). Just to be clear, we do NOT believe that you can “work your way to heaven.” This was condemned as the heresy of Pelagiansim at the Council of Ephesus, enough said. Anyways, the Church teaches that there is no salvation outside of her bosom. This should not be interpreted as literally as it sounds, though. We believe that God will have mercy on anyone that cooperates with His grace even if they don’t make their way to the Catholic Church before they die. This however does not mean that we, as Catholics, should not evangelize non-Christians with the Gospel or non-Catholics with the fullness that Christ intended for His religion (I see Protestantism as misunderstood Christianity), we must certainly do both.

6. What is your definition of being a ‘Christian’ and being a ‘Catholic’ and is there a difference? Do you feel offended by other Christian groups not referring to Catholics as Christian?

My understanding is that a Christian is someone who has been baptized using a Trinitarian formula and who believes in the Apostles’ and/or Nicene Creed, but I may be wrong. Some Protestants are not Christians like Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and certain Pentecostals that deny the Trinity. A Catholic is someone that was confirmed in the Catholic Church and professes all the beliefs of the Church. Yes, I am offended when people do not call Catholics Christians (even some Catholics are guilty of this). More so than offense, though, is my surprise and disgust of how little these people know of the history of Christianity while claiming to be Christians themselves! It’s sad, really. Again, misunderstood Christianity. No-one would have ever heard about Christ or the Trinity or have a Bible in their hand if it weren’t for the Catholic Church.

7. Why is there a handbook (Catechism)? When was it added and who wrote it? When did the distinction between Catholic’s and Christians arise and was it a result of this book?

Christians have always had a Catechism, even before they had a Bible, so it wasn’t “added” to anything. The first known one was the Didache which scholars believe was written before the canonical writings of St. John the Evangelist. Protestants left the Catholic Church for reasons that had nothing to do with the Catechism. In fact, almost all of the various “reformers” wrote their own catechisms which, if you read them, are surprisingly Catholic in many aspects as compared to modern Protestants. Even if you are a Protestant that claims not to have such a book, you still have the same concepts. You have a certain interpretation to the Bible that you believe to be true and even many extra-biblical beliefs like: “all I need is the Bible”, the “Sinner’s prayer,” going to church on Sundays, belief in the Trinity and Christ’s two natures, saying the doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer, “accepting Jesus into your heart as Lord and Savior,” your understanding of being “born again,” and once saved, always saved. Notice that I said these things are extra-biblical, which does not necessarily constitute something as unbiblical although some of the above beliefs are.

I hope that helps.

God bless!

-Jon

 

[joshua_b]

If I can offer a gentle reminder here to my Catholic bretheren, let us please slow down a bit, and let the OP control where this thread is going to go. “The easiest way to teach a person nothing is to show them everything”. Let’s not get too technical here, and try to barrage the OP with massive amounts of information to consider before we see exactly what kind of follow up questions they have to our initial responses. (for the record, that hasn’t happened here that I have seen, but its all to easy to go down that road if we are “on fire with the spirit”)