Differences in Core Protestant Beleifs

[ltwin]

With all do respect, that is your view based on liberal protestantism. I don’t think someone from Bob Jones University would share it.

I don’t believe even anyone from Bob Jones would claim their particualar denomination is The Church, the Only Church, the One Church. They may have definite beliefs concerning what it takes to become a Christian, but they do not claim to be the only Christians.

Publisher has state THE Protestant position accurately. No Protestant tradition that I know (be it Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, non-denominational) believes that their group and their group alone is THE Church.

People who go to Bob Jones University will all most likely be fundamentalists, but it is not affiliated with anyone Christian denomination. It is “nondenominational” in that it is open to any Protestant of any denominational background as long at he is committed to the fundamentals of the faith and can stomach the theological militancy and cultural conservatism of the institution.

Evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists generally hold that the Church is made up of all born again believers worldwide. The question is not “which group is the real Church?” The question is “are you (as an individual) born again, thereby being apart of the one true blood-bought Church?” Fundamentalist naturally are more exclusive than evangelicals in how they determined who is “born again.”

 

[robwar]

Publisher has state THE Protestant position accurately. No Protestant tradition that I know (be it Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, non-denominational) believes that their group and their group alone is THE Church.

People who go to Bob Jones University will all most likely be fundamentalists, but it is not affiliated with anyone Christian denomination. It is “nondenominational” in that it is open to any Protestant of any denominational background as long at he is committed to the fundamentals of the faith and can stomach the theological militancy and cultural conservatism of the institution.

Evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists generally hold that the Church is made up of all born again believers worldwide. The question is not “which group is the real Church?” The question is “are you (as an individual) born again, thereby being apart of the one true blood-bought Church?” Fundamentalist naturally are more exclusive than evangelicals in how they determined who is “born again.”

then why are there so many different protestant groups and churches? If there is one core position that you and Publisher are stating then why are not all protestants together? I already know that Bob Jones University is not a denomination as Lutheran and Methodist, I was using them as an example of the fundamentalism and they are a major center of that and fundamentalism is very different than Quaker or liberal Protestantism. Pentecostal is very different than high Anglican. While you may say they are different traditions, tradition does come from something or a core idea and belief and does get expressed in what a church does in its service even if they don’t know any more or it has been lost on a majority in the pew. A fundamentalist probably would not view a Quaker as someone who is saved and they certainly would view pentecostalism as a false spiritual movement. How someone is saved is viewed differently between different groups or thoughts in Protestantism. Importance on things like baptism (adult or infant, does it save or is it s symbol), communion (is there a real presence or just a symbol or not even done at all), interpretation of the Bible, (how literal or not), Are you once saved or is salvation a process, role of the second return of Christ, the trinity, predestination or do we have free will. All these things show the chaotic mess of protestantism. Who is right, who is wrong and how does one know? You and Publisher would view a Bob Jones type fundamentalist as kooks and they would view you two as unsaved or in serious error and then you have everything in-between. Looking at all of this make me glad I am now Catholic.

 

[Publisher]

then why are there so many different protestant groups and churches? If there is one core position that you and Publisher are stating then why are not all protestants together? I already know that Bob Jones University is not a denomination as Lutheran and Methodist, I was using them as an example of the fundamentalism and they are a major center of that and fundamentalism is very different than Quaker or liberal Protestantism. Pentecostal is very different than high Anglican. While you may say they are different traditions, tradition does come from something or a core idea and belief and does get expressed in what a church does in its service even if they don’t know any more or it has been lost on a majority in the pew. A fundamentalist probably would not view a Quaker as someone who is saved and they certainly would view pentecostalism as a false spiritual movement. How someone is saved is viewed differently between different groups or thoughts in Protestantism. Importance on things like baptism (adult or infant, does it save or is it s symbol), communion (is there a real presence or just a symbol or not even done at all), interpretation of the Bible, (how literal or not), Are you once saved or is salvation a process, role of the second return of Christ, the trinity, predestination or do we have free will. All these things show the chaotic mess of protestantism. Who is right, who is wrong and how does one know? You and Publisher would view a Bob Jones type fundamentalist as kooks and they would view you two as unsaved or in serious error and then you have everything in-between. Looking at all of this make me glad I am now Catholic.

Friend I would not view the students of Bob Jones as “kooks”…that is reading quite a bit into what I stated.

Protestants don’t have nearly the issue of worshipping together as Catholics would think. I have been interim ‘pastor’ for a Mennonite church, a Friends church and a Nazarene church in my younger days. The focus is/was not what the name on the sign was in front of the meeting house, but Christ as Lord in our midst and He and He alone is what makes us one in Him.

 

[robwar]

Friend I would not view the students of Bob Jones as “kooks”…that is reading quite a bit into what I stated.

Protestants don’t have nearly the issue of worshipping together as Catholics would think. I have been interim ‘pastor’ for a Mennonite church, a Friends church and a Nazarene church in my younger days. The focus is/was not what the name on the sign was in front of the meeting house, but Christ as Lord in our midst and He and He alone is what makes us one in Him.

I am sorry to imply that (kooks). I think we will disagree but I think we can agree to disagree. I also think Publisher that you should start a thread, ask a quaker. It would be interesting because of your background.
peace

 

[4Squarebaby]

Protestants don’t have nearly the issue of worshipping together as Catholics would think. I have been interim ‘pastor’ for a Mennonite church, a Friends church and a Nazarene church in my younger days. The focus is/was not what the name on the sign was in front of the meeting house, but Christ as Lord in our midst and He and He alone is what makes us one in Him.

I have a better example. when Matthew Barnett of the Dream Center was appointed as Senior Pastor to Angeles Temple, the church Sister Aimee built, Angelus Temple was listed as a member church on both the Foursquare and the Assemblies of God websites.

 

[ConstantineTG]

A Protestant friend of mine tried to tell me that all Protestant denominations only disagree on “little matters” after I asked him why there are 30,000 different protestant denominations and how that kinda proves that protestants aren’t doing something right. He said they were things like “little t” traditions that don’t necessarily matter, like styles of music, population size, and location. Now, I am pretty sure that this is a false statement, but if anyone knows of a few LARGE core doctrinal differences between main protestant denominations, that would be a great help. I just do not know enough about the different denominations to be able to answer this question, and neither does my friend! haha!

Thanks SO Much!
God Bless You!

There is a great book called Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy by an OCA Priest. His book started from a lecture series which was recorded and you can listen to via ancientfaith.com. He has a brief summary of a number of major faiths out there and how they compare to the Orthodox faith. Understandably he contrasts Orthodoxy with Roman Catholicism, you may want to skip over that part. But when he talks about the Classical Reformation, Revivalism, and the Radical Reformation, you may want to pay attention. This is an excellent overview of Protestant faiths and the major groups out there.

Here is the book: amazon.com/Orthodoxy-Heterodoxy-Exploring-Systems-Christian/dp/1936270137

Here is the podcast: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodoxyheterodoxy

I just discovered that he has a blog as well: orthodoxyandheterodoxy.org/

Remember that the priest made this for Orthodox Christians, this is not meant to be an apologetic towards other Christians or even people of other faith. But I found that this is a good, brief discussion of other Christians and what they believe in. A good resource even for Catholics, even though we may not agree with what he says about the Catholic Church.

 

[Newsy]

Most Protestants see only ONE really “core belief”…that in Jesus of Nazareth God showed His great mery to humanity. All who place their trust in Him in faith are inheiritors of His grace.

Protestants may differ on traditions, order of service, place some of the other doctrines ahead of others…but that one central Truth, that the love of God was personified in Jesus of Nazareth in a unique and one time event…God walked among us in Jesus and showed us what He is really like…if I want to know who God is, I look to Jesus of Nazareth.

All the rest fades into the background in the Light of this astounding love and grace.

Where would I reference this statement for “most” of Protestantism? I understand that what you have stated is the basic tenet of Christianity, but to say that is all that matters to “most Protestants” seems like a stretch. To simplify the gospel message to what you posted leaves many unanswered questions. Like, “How does one find God? Does He want a relationship with me? How do I start a relationship with Him? What is grace and how do I get it?”.

When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”- Matthew 8:28-29
Even the demons believe in God and believe that Jesus is His Son, so belief cannot be the only step to salvation. If your “most Protestant” statement is all that is needed for eternal life, then why are the demons not saved?

So, you see, the over simplified statement you made does not explain the entire Gospel message. There are other “core beliefs” that are major points of disagreement between denominations. I am not going to address the fact that many disagree with core teachings of their denomination, this is why differing opinions can be found inside a single church. There are many more differences in Protestant churches than just, “traditions, order of service, place some of the other doctrines ahead of others”.

 

[ConstantineTG]

There is a great book called Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy by an OCA Priest.

My mistake, he is Antiochian Orthodox.

 

[andrewstx]

Publisher has state THE Protestant position accurately. No Protestant tradition that I know (be it Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, non-denominational) believes that their group and their group alone is THE Church.

People who go to Bob Jones University will all most likely be fundamentalists, but it is not affiliated with anyone Christian denomination. It is “nondenominational” in that it is open to any Protestant of any denominational background as long at he is committed to the fundamentals of the faith and can stomach the theological militancy and cultural conservatism of the institution.

Evangelicals and Christian fundamentalists generally hold that the Church is made up of all born again believers worldwide. The question is not “which group is the real Church?” The question is “are you (as an individual) born again, thereby being apart of the one true blood-bought Church?” Fundamentalist naturally are more exclusive than evangelicals in how they determined who is “born again.”

Apparently you are not familiar with the sect I converted from THE church of Christ. They are very popular in the South including SC. They make no bones in cosidering themselves the only Christians in the world. In fact they use the name “Christian” as a brand name reffering to themselves only, all others are Baptists, Catholics. Pentecostals etc while they are “Christians”.

They are the most exclusive of all.

 

[ltwin]

Apparently you are not familiar with the sect I converted from THE church of Christ. They are very popular in the South including SC. They make no bones in cosidering themselves the only Christians in the world. In fact they use the name “Christian” as a brand name reffering to themselves only, all others are Baptists, Catholics. Pentecostals etc while they are “Christians”.

They are the most exclusive of all.

On further reflection, I do have to admit that I was wrong when I said, “No Protestant tradition that I know (be it Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, non-denominational) believes that their group and their group alone is THE Church.” When I wrote that, I was thinking about the mainstream Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc. I totally failed to take into account movements on the fringes, like Landmark Baptists and Oneness Pentecostals. These are exclusive in the sense that anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their beliefs is not a true Christian. So yes, there are exceptions, but I still maintain that as a general rule, Protestants are not exclusivists. And even Landmark Baptists and Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in any one denomination having an exclusive claim on the truth. There are many Oneness Pentecostal denominations and there exclusivist claims do not extend to denominational loyalty. And of course, Landmark Baptists would be congregationalists.

Honestly, I’m not that familiar with the Church of Christ. I know they have a lot of church fights over instrumental church music and what not. I also know that early leaders were Stone and Campbell and that they sought to restore New Testament Christianity, and later split between the conservative Churches of Christ and mainline Disciples of Christ. They don’t sound like a group I want to know much about to be honest, and if what you say is true they are much more exclusive than most Protestants.

Hypothetically speaking, if there was a church with the name of Church of Christ or Christian Church or Church of God and it had beliefs close to the Churches of Christ. This church has no connection with the Churches of Christ. In fact, it’s never heard of them before. Suddenly its “discovered” by the Churches of Christ. Would, after examining this church, would the Churches of Christ consider this church a Church of Christ and its members as fellow Christians?

 

[Izdaari]

Most Protestants see only ONE really “core belief”…that in Jesus of Nazareth God showed His great mery to humanity. All who place their trust in Him in faith are inheiritors of His grace.

Protestants may differ on traditions, order of service, place some of the other doctrines ahead of others…but that one central Truth, that the love of God was personified in Jesus of Nazareth in a unique and one time event…God walked among us in Jesus and showed us what He is really like…if I want to know who God is, I look to Jesus of Nazareth.

All the rest fades into the background in the Light of this astounding love and grace.

That is my belief. And that’s why I experienced no cognitive dissonance in moving from Assemblies of God to Episcopalian. I do prefer the Anglican traditions, but I could worship in any Christian church that has Romans 10:9-10 right.

Nor do I have any belief that Catholics or Orthodox are not “real Christians”. I think they’re valid Christian traditions, just not my tradition. What I reject is the proposition that they’re the “real Christians” and we aren’t.

 

[Izdaari]

I have a better example. when Matthew Barnett of the Dream Center was appointed as Senior Pastor to Angeles Temple, the church Sister Aimee built, Angelus Temple was listed as a member church on both the Foursquare and the Assemblies of God websites.

That’s not a hard one at all, because Foursquare and AG are almost identical in theology and culture.

Incidentally, my new church is both Episcopal (TEC) and Lutheran (ELCA). Not just the full communion agreement between the two denominations, but formally with both, under a bishop of each.

 

[ltwin]

That’s not a hard one at all, because Foursquare and AG are almost identical in theology and culture.

Incidentally, my new church is both Episcopal (TEC) and Lutheran (ELCA). Not just the full communion agreement between the two denominations, but formally with both, under a bishop of each.

Yeah, that’s not the best example to use. The founder of the Foursquare Church, Aimee Semple McPherson, was an ordained Assemblies of God pastor. So, they are basically sister denominations, and there are basically no differences, even in the “non-essential” beliefs and practices.

 

[andrewstx]

On further reflection, I do have to admit that I was wrong when I said, “No Protestant tradition that I know (be it Anglican, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Baptist, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, non-denominational) believes that their group and their group alone is THE Church.” When I wrote that, I was thinking about the mainstream Anglicans, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc. I totally failed to take into account movements on the fringes, like Landmark Baptists and Oneness Pentecostals. These are exclusive in the sense that anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their beliefs is not a true Christian. So yes, there are exceptions, but I still maintain that as a general rule, Protestants are not exclusivists. And even Landmark Baptists and Oneness Pentecostals do not believe in any one denomination having an exclusive claim on the truth. There are many Oneness Pentecostal denominations and there exclusivist claims do not extend to denominational loyalty. And of course, Landmark Baptists would be congregationalists.

Honestly, I’m not that familiar with the Church of Christ. I know they have a lot of church fights over instrumental church music and what not. I also know that early leaders were Stone and Campbell and that they sought to restore New Testament Christianity, and later split between the conservative Churches of Christ and mainline Disciples of Christ. They don’t sound like a group I want to know much about to be honest, and if what you say is true they are much more exclusive than most Protestants.

Hypothetically speaking, if there was a church with the name of Church of Christ or Christian Church or Church of God and it had beliefs close to the Churches of Christ. This church has no connection with the Churches of Christ. In fact, it’s never heard of them before. Suddenly its “discovered” by the Churches of Christ. Would, after examining this church, would the Churches of Christ consider this church a Church of Christ and its members as fellow Christians?

They are best avoided these “only Christians in existence”. They are very cultish and avoid others except where buisiness and work connections make it needfull. They as a rule only marry other Campbellites.

When I left “the chruch” I was cut off from the restr of the family and told I was no longer christian. I was disowned and disinheited by those “christians”.

My sister likes to write letters to the editor, where she quotes scripture to make her political points, otherwise her letters are full of hate. I sure hope people don’t make the connection.

 

[jrtrent]

I don’t believe even anyone from Bob Jones would claim their particualar denomination is The Church, the Only Church, the One Church. They may have definite beliefs concerning what it takes to become a Christian, but they do not claim to be the only Christians.

Most Protestant churches I’ve attended are similar to the Roman Catholic church on this issue. They don’t claim to be the only Christians, but they do believe their church has it right while other churches have varying degrees of error. For example, the LCMS recognizes all Trinitarian church bodies as Christian churches (those that do not recognize the Trinity are viewed as cults or non-Christian), yet refer to them as heterodox because they teach false doctrine. The Catholic church seems similar, base on this excerpt from their catechism:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

 

[Publisher]

Most Protestant churches I’ve attended are similar to the Roman Catholic church on this issue. They don’t claim to be the only Christians, but they do believe their church has it right while other churches have varying degrees of error. For example, the LCMS recognizes all Trinitarian church bodies as Christian churches (those that do not recognize the Trinity are viewed as cults or non-Christian), yet refer to them as heterodox because they teach false doctrine. The Catholic church seems similar, base on this excerpt from their catechism:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

That may be true…I am a member of the Society of Friends because I believe Friends embody the teachings of the gospel best…but what we do not teach is that we ARE the True Church…I suspect those Protestant bodies you have encountered feel their teaching BEST represent their understanding of the gospel…but they do not teach that they are the True Church as Catholics, Mormons, Orthodox and a smattering of others do. The Lutheran organization you mention is just that an organization thru which the Church works to futher the spread of the gospel…but the organizational structure comprised is not the Church.

 

[Andre1000]

A Protestant friend of mine tried to tell me that all Protestant denominations only disagree on “little matters” after I asked him why there are 30,000 different protestant denominations and how that kinda proves that protestants aren’t doing something right. He said they were things like “little t” traditions that don’t necessarily matter, like styles of music, population size, and location. Now, I am pretty sure that this is a false statement, but if anyone knows of a few LARGE core doctrinal differences between main protestant denominations, that would be a great help. I just do not know enough about the different denominations to be able to answer this question, and neither does my friend! haha!

Thanks SO Much!
God Bless You!

Many protestants also expressed the opinion that the protestant and Catholic believe is basicly the same.

 

[manualman]

I’m a little confused. The OP said that someon claimed that the differences among protestant denominational beliefs are all minor (akin to what catholics call “little T” traditions). If I read right, Itwin and Mystophilus affirmed that they believe this to be true and attempt to base this assertion on the diversity of beliefs within each protestant denomination.

Maybe I missed something, but I & M’s argument sounds an awful lot like Publisher’s later admission that the only SUBSTANTIAL belief that matters is that Jesus was the Son of God and gave his life to prove his love for us. Is this really true? I knew that Anglicanism had evolved to the point where (to mangle a famous Anglican’s quote) “nobody from the Pope to Mao can conclusively say that he is NOT an Anglican” but I’d not heard before an assertion that ALL protestant denomination had become so vague. Does not the “Presbyterian Church” formally teach doctrines that are distinctly Calvinist, and hostile to Arminianism? Aren’t there pentecostal sects that teach that you haven’t received the Holy Spirit unless you’ve been given the gift of tongues? Aren’t there “Oneness” churches that deny the concept of Trinity as we’ve understood it for so many centuries? It’s a fair point to claim that there aren’t 30,000 of these gaping differences, but to claim NONE??

I’m suprised at these assertions that essentially seem to boil down to a claim that protestant church leadership and doctrinal statements are meaningless and that each person decides truth for himself (presumably from Scripture, but these days who knows?). Is there nobody here who will admit to a substantial doctrinal differences among PCUSE, the Southern Baptists and Saddleback? Seriously? I find that hard to swallow.

 

[jrtrent]

Is there nobody here who will admit to a substantial doctrinal differences among PCUSE, the Southern Baptists and Saddleback? Seriously? I find that hard to swallow.

Yes, several of us in this thread have stated that we see substantial doctrinal differences between various Protestant denominations, and have quoted and linked to other sources making the point that most divisions among different Christian groups are doctrinal in nature (and not all Anglican bodies are as vague or accepting of differences as those associated with the Archbishop of Canterbury). As you have observed, there are others in the thread who have denied or downplayed those denominational distinctives.

 

[JonNC]

I’m a little confused. The OP said that someon claimed that the differences among protestant denominational beliefs are all minor (akin to what catholics call “little T” traditions). If I read right, Itwin and Mystophilus affirmed that they believe this to be true and attempt to base this assertion on the diversity of beliefs within each protestant denomination.

Maybe I missed something, but I & M’s argument sounds an awful lot like Publisher’s later admission that the only SUBSTANTIAL belief that matters is that Jesus was the Son of God and gave his life to prove his love for us. Is this really true? I knew that Anglicanism had evolved to the point where (to mangle a famous Anglican’s quote) “nobody from the Pope to Mao can conclusively say that he is NOT an Anglican” **but I’d not heard before an assertion that ALL protestant denomination had become so vague. **Does not the “Presbyterian Church” formally teach doctrines that are distinctly Calvinist, and hostile to Arminianism? Aren’t there pentecostal sects that teach that you haven’t received the Holy Spirit unless you’ve been given the gift of tongues? Aren’t there “Oneness” churches that deny the concept of Trinity as we’ve understood it for so many centuries? It’s a fair point to claim that there aren’t 30,000 of these gaping differences, but to claim NONE??

I’m suprised at these assertions that essentially seem to boil down to a claim that protestant church leadership and doctrinal statements are meaningless and that each person decides truth for himself (presumably from Scripture, but these days who knows?). Is there nobody here who will admit to a substantial doctrinal differences among PCUSE, the Southern Baptists and Saddleback? Seriously? I find that hard to swallow.

Confessional Lutherans have not become so vague.

Jon