Differences in mortal sins?

[carn]

A was with his very pious mother from monday to friday and in respect of her, he accompanied her twice each day to mass, one of them each day at 6 AM. Come sunday morning and A thinks “Sorry God, i know it violates the fourth commandment, but today i will not go to church, enough is enough, 10 times a week should be enough. I will go again next week, but see no reason to repent this decision.”

Obviously a mortal sin.

B on the same day attends mass as always, but on the evening thinks “Live is boring, would be more fun if i torture and kill somebody. Yeah God, i know it violates the sixth commandment, but i realy do not care. But i will go to church again next sunday.” and thendoes what he planned.

Obviously a mortal sin.

Some people might now complain, that that describing it this way implies that there is no realy important moral difference between what A and B to, both defy God and commit a mortal sin, but that this is incompatible with normal human conscious that would perceive drastic differences between A and B. And not only because A seems to have some remorse about not going or at least something like an excuse, but because putting missing one sunday mass and murdering somebody somehow on the same level is supposed to be just ridiculous.

What to say about this?

Are there differences or increments in regard to mortal sins?

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

A was with his very pious mother from monday to friday and in respect of her, he accompanied her twice each day to mass, one of them each day at 6 AM. Come sunday morning and A thinks “Sorry God, i know it violates the fourth commandment, but today i will not go to church, enough is enough, 10 times a week should be enough. I will go again next week, but see no reason to repent this decision.”

Obviously a mortal sin.

B on the same day attends mass as always, but on the evening thinks “Live is boring, would be more fun if i torture and kill somebody. Yeah God, i know it violates the sixth commandment, but i realy do not care. But i will go to church again next sunday.” and thendoes what he planned.

Obviously a mortal sin.

Some people might now complain, that that describing it this way implies that there is no realy important moral difference between what A and B to, both defy God and commit a mortal sin, but that this is incompatible with normal human conscious that would perceive drastic differences between A and B. And not only because A seems to have some remorse about not going or at least something like an excuse, but because putting missing one sunday mass and murdering somebody somehow on the same level is supposed to be just ridiculous.

What to say about this?

Are there differences or increments in regard to mortal sins?

Both situations are quite ridiculous.
Impossible to see grace or sins there.

 

[TheDoctor]

I’ve got a few minutes before my next meeting so I’ll play.

Assume for the sake of the argument that they are both mortal sins. They are “equivalent” in that both are a concious decision on the part of the sinner to separate themselves from God and in that if the sinner were to die without repenting they doom themselves to Hell.

Where they may not be equivalent is in the temperal punishment due. Assume for arguments sake that they both repent and go to confession and are forgiven these sins and then die on their way out of Church. The former will probably need less time in Purgatory to work off the temperal punishment due than the latter.

A clearer case can be made for theft. If you and I both steal $100 and all other conditions are met it is a mortal sin. If you steal yours from a multi-billion dollar corporation to buy medicine for a sick baby and I steal mine from a poor couple to jet to Vegas for the weekend one is a more harmful sin that the other and one (mine) would involve more penance and good works than yours.

 

[JRKH]

A was with his very pious mother from monday to friday and in respect of her, he accompanied her twice each day to mass, one of them each day at 6 AM. Come sunday morning and A thinks “Sorry God, i know it violates the fourth commandment, but today i will not go to church, enough is enough, 10 times a week should be enough. I will go again next week, but see no reason to repent this decision.”

Obviously a mortal sin.

B on the same day attends mass as always, but on the evening thinks “Live is boring, would be more fun if i torture and kill somebody. Yeah God, i know it violates the sixth commandment, but i realy do not care. But i will go to church again next sunday.” and thendoes what he planned.

Obviously a mortal sin.

Some people might now complain, that that describing it this way implies that there is no realy important moral difference between what A and B to, both defy God and commit a mortal sin, but that this is incompatible with normal human conscious that would perceive drastic differences between A and B. And not only because A seems to have some remorse about not going or at least something like an excuse, but because putting missing one sunday mass and murdering somebody somehow on the same level is supposed to be just ridiculous.

What to say about this?

Are there differences or increments in regard to mortal sins?

I assume that your examples are intended to be outrageous so I will not chastise for their being rather ridiculous scenarios.

To answer your question, they are both mortal and no there are not “increments” to something that is mortal. Being slightly dead is like having a “touch of pregnancy…”

The key is not the specific sins (missing mass or torture and kill) but in the thoughts that prompt the acts.
Scenario A: The boy is not attending Church out of Love for God, but out of respect for his mother and her beliefs and desires. His faith is already weak, or perhaps non-existent. He does not Love God with all of his heart mind and strength. Thus he first disobeys the greatest commandment (Mt 22:36-40). The second act of disobedience is merely an expression of the first. The outright verbal rejection of God and God’s command to attend mass on Sunday.

Scenario B: This person likewise does not Love God - regardless of his mass attendance. He too has failed to fulfill the first and greatest commandment. He to, in his verbalization, merely confirms the fact that his heart is far from the Lord.

We need to stop looking at particular acts and trying to categorize them like we were on an episode of “Law and Order”. Look at the teachings of Christ. Examine how the various rules and obligations that we, as Catholics, live under spring from the Two great commandments of Love.

Peace
James

 

[Incomplete]

I assume that your examples are intended to be outrageous so I will not chastise for their being rather ridiculous scenarios.

To answer your question, they are both mortal and no there are not “increments” to something that is mortal. Being slightly dead is like having a “touch of pregnancy…”

The key is not the specific sins (missing mass or torture and kill) but in the thoughts that prompt the acts.
Scenario A: The boy is not attending Church out of Love for God, but out of respect for his mother and her beliefs and desires. His faith is already weak, or perhaps non-existent. He does not Love God with all of his heart mind and strength. Thus he first disobeys the greatest commandment (Mt 22:36-40). The second act of disobedience is merely an expression of the first. The outright verbal rejection of God and God’s command to attend mass on Sunday.

Scenario B: This person likewise does not Love God - regardless of his mass attendance. He too has failed to fulfill the first and greatest commandment. He to, in his verbalization, merely confirms the fact that his heart is far from the Lord.

We need to stop looking at particular acts and trying to categorize them like we were on an episode of “Law and Order”. Look at the teachings of Christ. Examine how the various rules and obligations that we, as Catholics, live under spring from the Two great commandments of Love.

Peace
James

Very well said.

 

[steve_b]

A was with his very pious mother from monday to friday and in respect of her, he accompanied her twice each day to mass, one of them each day at 6 AM. Come sunday morning and A thinks “Sorry God, i know it violates the fourth commandment, but today i will not go to church, enough is enough, 10 times a week should be enough. I will go again next week, but see no reason to repent this decision.”

Obviously a mortal sin.

B on the same day attends mass as always, but on the evening thinks “Live is boring, would be more fun if i torture and kill somebody. Yeah God, i know it violates the sixth commandment, but i realy do not care. But i will go to church again next sunday.” and thendoes what he planned.

Obviously a mortal sin.

Some people might now complain, that that describing it this way implies that there is no realy important moral difference between what A and B to, both defy God and commit a mortal sin, but that this is incompatible with normal human conscious that would perceive drastic differences between A and B. And not only because A seems to have some remorse about not going or at least something like an excuse, but because putting missing one sunday mass and murdering somebody somehow on the same level is supposed to be just ridiculous.

What to say about this?

Are there differences or increments in regard to mortal sins?

Your examples aside, if one dies in mortal sin they go immediately to hell.

 

[Bookcat]

(without getting into the post per se…)

Mortal sins are all mortal.

But there are degrees of mortal sin…both in comparing them with each other or in malice etc.

Just as there are various ways one can murder someone biologically…slowing boiling them in oil is worse than a quick gun shot.

Death still happens…but the kind of death and the circumstances are different.

In the case of a mortal sin…also the spiritual effects are different for sure…in the midst of the spiritual death.

 

[WFS5801]

Are there differences or increments in regard to mortal sins?

The difference in your examples is that one sin harms only the sinner, the other harms another. But both mortal sins result in the sinner’s eternal death if he dies unrepentant.

 

[underacloud]

It’s also worth saying that while both are mortal sins and result in separation from God and thus hell if left unrepented, we do not really know whether hell holds different levels of punishment. We can only speculate, and many saints have over the years. Perhaps hell is experienced very differently dependant on the sins that lead one there. Perhaps person A, who’s sin seems less terrible, will not suffer as greatly as person B.

 

[JRKH]

It really bothers me that we should even consider or be concerned with how hell is structured. How in the world does that benefit us in our walk with Christ?

Our job as Christians ought not be concerned with understanding hell but only with the simple acknowledgement of its existence and a firm conviction to do all we can to help ourselves and other to avoid it. We do this by concentrating on God’s Love and running away from those things that will lead us to hell.

What can it possibly matter to the man on the street whether one person suffers differently than another in the place of eternal torment.

The Choices are simple…Heaven or hell…Complete Happiness or total torment…Love or hate…God or satan…

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

A “Sorry God, i know it violates the fourth commandment, but today i will not go to church, enough is enough, 10 times a week should be enough. I will go again next week, but see no reason to repent this decision.”

Obviously a mortal sin.
?

obviously no such thing

you can’t make your argument if one of your propositions is false

 

[carn]

obviously no such thing

you can’t make your argument if one of your propositions is false

Why?

As far as i know, one is required to attend Sunday mass or maybe Saturday evening. Attending other mass during week does not change this obligation.
Or is that wrong?

 

[Incomplete]

Why?

As far as i know, one is required to attend Sunday mass or maybe Saturday evening. Attending other mass during week does not change this obligation.
Or is that wrong?

You’re right about this. But post #4 answered your question.