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gurneyhalleck1
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The Enlightenment did a lot to negatively impact Lutheranism and Christianity in general…
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guanophore
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This is good for me to know and understand. Most of modern American Catholics are also contaminated by the “enlightenment” and liberalism also, and have abandoned the faith of the Church.
And here’s an example, I know Lutherans and Lutheran pastors who say quite casually that Christ had brothers and sisters from the Blessed Virgin. Yet, the Formula of Concord says:
bookofconcord.org/sd-person.php
Jon
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Mikeoffaith
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It’s funny but my theology teacher in HS told us that the “perpetual virginity of Mary was relatively unimportant”.
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gurneyhalleck1
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Was it a Catholic high school, Mike?
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Mikeoffaith
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It was indeed!
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gurneyhalleck1
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The Catholic high school in our area has a reputation. Shoot, my friend is a hardcore Catholic, Tiber Swim Team alumnus, anyway, he is a hardcore Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, off into the far rightville. Anyway, he found that the Catholic high school was far, far more liberal socially, morally, and theologically than the public high school and pulled him out! LOL…The kid did better in public! 
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Mikeoffaith
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Too funny. I actually got a pretty decent education. My Lutheran education and Roman Catholic education really complimented each other nicely. And certainly in the core subjects both were on top of the game.The Catholic high school in our area has a reputation. Shoot, my friend is a hardcore Catholic, Tiber Swim Team alumnus, anyway, he is a hardcore Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, off into the far rightville. Anyway, he found that the Catholic high school was far, far more liberal socially, morally, and theologically than the public high school and pulled him out! LOL…The kid did better in public!
For some reason the whole Tiber Swim Team thing cracks me up. I’ve seen the Tiber and if I ever join Rome, I think I will gladly walk across the bridge rather than swim in the Tiber, thank you very much.
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gurneyhalleck1
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Manila Bay in the Philippines and the Chao Phraya in Bangkok, now THOSE are murky suckers! LOL…
It may be unimportant, Mike. I was simply using it as an example of how American Lutheranism has lost, or at least ignored, those things the reformers thought important enough to include in the Confessions.
Isn’t it nice having gurney back?
Jon
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Irish_Polock
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Then again you do live in California… This has not been the case in the Blessed state of Texas!The Catholic high school in our area has a reputation. Shoot, my friend is a hardcore Catholic, Tiber Swim Team alumnus, anyway, he is a hardcore Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, off into the far rightville. Anyway, he found that the Catholic high school was far, far more liberal socially, morally, and theologically than the public high school and pulled him out! LOL…The kid did better in public!
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gurneyhalleck1
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Bless your heart, Jon. It’s a real blessing to be among you guys.
It may be unimportant, Mike. I was simply using it as an example of how American Lutheranism has lost, or at least ignored, those things the reformers thought important enough to include in the Confessions.
Isn’t it nice having gurney back?
Jon
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gurneyhalleck1
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We feel very blessed in California, too. 
Liberalism and weird people are everywhere. There are liberals in Texas I’ve heard 
We looked good in that World Series, too! Today was “dress in your favorite sports team jersey” day at my school. I’m covered in Giants gear so my brain is orange and black right now…
Liberalism and weird people are everywhere. There are liberals in Texas I’ve heard We looked good in that World Series, too! Today was “dress in your favorite sports team jersey” day at my school. I’m covered in Giants gear so my brain is orange and black right now…
Then again you do live in California… This has not been the case in the Blessed state of Texas!
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Irish_Polock
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Right, I would agree. Case in point: Austin, Texas (my barrio) would be considered by most; the most liberal and weird city outside of San Fransisco. Although, outside of the urban areas of Texas, and taken as a whole; we Texans remain firm on our principles and morals. Thankfully, this is a trend that has been growing in the Lone Star State.We feel very blessed in California, too.
What would be your excuse for California?
As for our sport teams…We looked good in that World Series, too! Today was “dress in your favorite sports team jersey” day at my school. I’m covered in Giants gear so my brain is orange and black right now…
(A drowning man will clutch for anything, even a straw)
I jest, only because I am Texan and your from California… that would be almost as bad as if you were from Colorado in my opinion.
Sorry for trolling!
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gurneyhalleck1
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What would be my excuse for what in California? You lost me. I think mid-westerners have an exaggerated view of California. They think we’re all surfers who smoke marijuana and live in hippy communes with hemp bed sheets. The truth is Orange County is almost totally Republican, my area, the Central Valley of California (San Joaquin Valley) is staunchly conservative and a Democrat doesn’t have a prayer here. It’s hardcore pro-life, everyone is at church on Sunday, Catholicism attendance is off the hook here, people are very old-school in the valley. But on the other hand, we’re a progressive state as a whole. We did some things I happen to like like banning public smoking and we have tight environmental regulations. I don’t think it’s really fair to generalize that one state is full of faith and tradition and another is degenerated hippies. California gets a bum rap. We have the best weather there is, it’s the most gorgeous place I can think of, the people are awesome, we have amazing mountains, beaches, gorgeous cities like San Fran and San Diego and the glitz and industry of Los Angeles. But, we have a ton of prisoners, heaps of debt, we’ve had a decade of lousy governors who mismanaged things along with an assembly and senate that is borderline incompetent. I have a lot of respect for Texas’s economy and many Texans I’ve met are neat folks. I have also met some real jerkwads from California and Texas so I take it town by town, person by person more than at a state level. I’m a moderate guy. I guess I fit the California mold. I’d make a horrible Texan! My grandpa was a Texan.
At least you guys have the Spurs. They look good this season. I hope our Lakers’ll take 'em!
At least you guys have the Spurs. They look good this season. I hope our Lakers’ll take 'em!
Right, I would agree. Case in point: Austin, Texas (my barrio) would be considered by most; the most liberal and weird city outside of San Fransisco. Although, outside of the urban areas of Texas, and taken as a whole; we Texans remain firm on our principles and morals. Thankfully, this is a trend that has been growing in the Lone Star State.
What would be your excuse for California?
As for our sport teams…
(A drowning man will clutch for anything, even a straw)
I jest, only because I am Texan and your from California… that would be almost as bad as if you were from Colorado in my opinion.
Sorry for trolling!
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Mikeoffaith
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I thought this thread was Lutherans V Catholics not California V Texas. While I love living in CA I can think of better places, but being from NM I do have a grudge against Texas.What would be my excuse for what in California? You lost me. I think mid-westerners have an exaggerated view of California. They think we’re all surfers who smoke marijuana and live in hippy communes with hemp bed sheets. The truth is Orange County is almost totally Republican, my area, the Central Valley of California (San Joaquin Valley) is staunchly conservative and a Democrat doesn’t have a prayer here. It’s hardcore pro-life, everyone is at church on Sunday, Catholicism attendance is off the hook here, people are very old-school in the valley. But on the other hand, we’re a progressive state as a whole. We did some things I happen to like like banning public smoking and we have tight environmental regulations. I don’t think it’s really fair to generalize that one state is full of faith and tradition and another is degenerated hippies. California gets a bum rap. We have the best weather there is, it’s the most gorgeous place I can think of, the people are awesome, we have amazing mountains, beaches, gorgeous cities like San Fran and San Diego and the glitz and industry of Los Angeles. But, we have a ton of prisoners, heaps of debt, we’ve had a decade of lousy governors who mismanaged things along with an assembly and senate that is borderline incompetent. I have a lot of respect for Texas’s economy and many Texans I’ve met are neat folks. I have also met some real jerkwads from California and Texas so I take it town by town, person by person more than at a state level. I’m a moderate guy. I guess I fit the California mold. I’d make a horrible Texan! My grandpa was a Texan.
At least you guys have the Spurs. They look good this season. I hope our Lakers’ll take 'em!
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gurneyhalleck1
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It was a five-minute detour, endulge me Mike! LOL
I can’t think of many states I’d rather live in personally, but to each his own.
I can’t think of many states I’d rather live in personally, but to each his own.
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fred_conty
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Hi Dave, I know this has collected some dust since you posted this but I would like to address this. There are two parts to answer, the OT and NT.
The NT Canon today is the same for Protestants and Catholics. But in the early centuries there were hundreds of gospels,letters, and acts, besides other writtings. There were the ligitimate books and the doubtful/uncertain books. Many of the early churches didn’t have one bound book but many little books which were exchanged between churches for the readings in their liturgies. The large churches may have a collection, but the smaller churches didn’t. In those days they didn’t have communication or transportation as we do today which made for problems as well. But even that being the case, sometimes when it does get around that men who are recognized as learned in their field make recommendations about something very important, it is recognized and does change our acceptance even tho it is not an absolute mandate. And being human, this takes time as well as communication to everyone. Sometimes when a messanger was sent with info to distant place, the info he carried was out of date or questionable. It is true, the council of Hippo was not a General Council and some of the other ones weren’t either but what they had to say was important because it helped to clarify what the NT books were because there was confusion and uncertainty…
The OT is another issue since Protestants and Catholics have a difference of 7 books and a parcial difference in 2 more today. To me this is the real difference. To understand the reasons for these differences is lengthly and covers a period from before Christ and thru the Reformation. There are a number of issues:
The Septuagent books
The Jewish Council’s list in the first century
The list of accepted books in the early churches
Jerome’s translation and list of books
Books accepted before the Reformation.
These are just a few items. For more details, see:
www.davidmacd.com/catholics/bible_catholics_aprocrapha.htm
If we are in His hands what can go wrong?.
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