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FCEGM
Guest
Yes, in the sense that it is the same God Who is being seen, but each sees the Most Holy Trinity with that varying intensity of conformity to the Son by the working of the Holy Spirit in the soul.
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Coder
Guest
Is this an official Church teaching required to be believed as an article of faith? I find it hard to accept and I question it. It is Jesus’ sacrifice that purchased all of us our salvation and God’s grace that allows us to embrace it.
What about the parable of the workers who were all paid the same wage even though some started late in the day?
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FCEGM
Guest
“DeFide” has given the de fide
documentation for this belief; all Catholics must assent to the teaching.Through the parable you mention, the Lord teaches that the Kingdom of Heaven is open to all who respond to God’s grace to seek it, be they the first-in-line or latecomers. That is the “wage” of which the Lord is speaking. The Lord also says, “He [the Son of Man] will render to every one according to his works,” Matt. 16:27; and St. Paul teaches, “And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour,” 1 Cor. 3:8; and “He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he that soweth in blessings shall also reap blessings,” 2 Cor. 9:6.
(You don’t really think that the Blessed Virgin Mary doesn’t experience a greater intensity of the Beatific Vision than you or I may, do you?
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Tom
Guest
It seems St Paul knew there were different levels.
drbo.org:
This is an ancient Jewish tradition, there are seven levels, the seventh being the actual residence of God.
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Dawn
Guest
I asked this question about a month ago in the “ask and apologist” and never got an answer! I asked because my dh is going through RCIA and he was having some difficulties, he asked “why this all had to be so difficult when we were all going to heaven anyways?”. I guess he learned in RCIA that there are no levels, everyone is the same, so whether you are a mother Theresa or a bank robber who confesses right before he dies, we will all go to heaven. I offered my responses but was wondering what the “official” Catholic response was, I guess the De Fide is it! Thanks for the answer!
Dawn
Dawn
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Which bears to mind that not all of us may actually be priveleged enough to see God face to face in heaven. For the great sinners who barely make it into heaven, I wonder if they will be on the outskirts of heaven, so to speak, still experiencing the pure love and joy of heaven, but not close to the throne of God?
Doesn’t the bible mentions that there are choirs of angels who are closer to the throne of God than the other angels? I wonder if it will be the same for us.
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Hollis
Guest
Some here have made mention of the parable of workers that show up at different times and receive the same wage. Every commentary I have read on this all conclude the same - that Jesus was speaking to the Jews who had waited so long for the coming of the Messiah and all the benefits that would bring and Jesus was including Gentiles in the New Covenant which would be Catholic (Universal), open to all. The Jews weren’t too happy about this so Jesus gives them this parable.
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kalbertone
Guest
If you got that view from Ludwig ott fundamentals it CERTAINLY does not mean a dogma.There is no official list of dogmas & Dogmas are very few(Trinity,Incarnation,sacraments…). That is Ott^s opinion from a time when there was a lack of historical & modern criticism & a over dogmatization of everything(pre Vatican II)“DeFide” has given the de fide
Through the parable you mention, the Lord teaches that the Kingdom of Heaven is open to all who respond to God’s grace to seek it, be they the first-in-line or latecomers. That is the “wage” of which the Lord is speaking. The Lord also says, “He [the Son of Man] will render to every one according to his works,” Matt. 16:27; and St. Paul teaches, “And every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labour,” 1 Cor. 3:8; and “He who soweth sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he that soweth in blessings shall also reap blessings,” 2 Cor. 9:6.
(You don’t really think that the Blessed Virgin Mary doesn’t experience a greater intensity of the Beatific Vision than you or I may, do you?
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mdcpensive1
Guest
To answer the question in another way it can be seen that we each in our own way can enjoy the beauty of something in various intensities. Looking at the Grand Canyon can be great for some and just good for others. It depends on a lot of things that have happened in our past and on how we view life.
What this means is that it is all about the beatific vision of the Trinity. Looking upon the Trinity is true happiness but it can only be enjoyed to the level of how much we have practiced charity and love. By knowing love and charity we know Christ and can view the beauty of Him in the mystery of the next world. God is love and to know true love is to know true happiness and we each have our own degree of knowing and showing love.
It is not an set number of levels but a quantum approach.
What this means is that it is all about the beatific vision of the Trinity. Looking upon the Trinity is true happiness but it can only be enjoyed to the level of how much we have practiced charity and love. By knowing love and charity we know Christ and can view the beauty of Him in the mystery of the next world. God is love and to know true love is to know true happiness and we each have our own degree of knowing and showing love.
It is not an set number of levels but a quantum approach.
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