Different Levels of Hell

[RedDuke50]

Are there different levels of Hell? I have seen pictures of levels and I wanted to know if this was in the Church’s teaching. If there are, how many different levels are there?

Thanks,
RedDuke50

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Are there different levels of Hell? I have seen pictures of levels and I wanted to know if this was in the Church’s teaching. If there are, how many different levels are there?

Thanks,
RedDuke50

I suppose not.
Hell is the absence of God.

 

[followingtheway]

Are there different levels of Hell? I have seen pictures of levels and I wanted to know if this was in the Church’s teaching. If there are, how many different levels are there?

Thanks,
RedDuke50

That’s actually from Dante’s Inferno a poem written about Hell, but it’s fiction. We don’t teach Hell has circles or levels :nope:. Hey, maybe it does. I don’t know I’ve never been there. Several saints, mystics, visionaries, and average people claim to have visions of Hell. But they don’t describe “levels.”

God bless :byzsoc:

David

 

[midori]

Like others have said, that’s a Dante thing. Basically, Dante organized hell into different areas, so that people who were there for particular sins could be grouped together and given similar punishments based on the crimes committed.

So, say, things like Lust and Greed are early on. With Lust, you get blown around in an unceasingly violent storm, just like you’re manipulated by your passions. With Greed, you’re lying around in icy, slushy mud, because you’ve spent your whole life focused on your own wants and desires that your heart is cold and empty towards things that matter.

But say, perjurers are treated pretty harshly at a deeper circle-- Potiphar’s wife, for her lies against Joseph, for example. They’re afflicted by diseases, because their false, evil perjury is a disease on society. Or tyrants and others accused of violent crimes-- like Cain’s treachery and murder against Abel-- get put in an earlier part of the ninth circle, but those who specifically commit treachery and violence against their masters and thereby upset the balance of society-- like Judas’ betrayal of Christ-- gets them a different section in this circle.

It’s all 14th c poetry, but it’s a good read. But that’s where the idea comes from.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I’ve been reading a short book by the Catholic journalist Michael Brown, “Life After Death”.

If he’s correct, based on his research, there are different levels of Purgatory, ranging from near hellish to near heavenly. The average stay appears to be about 30 to 40 earth years, but the suffering is far more intense, and it’s difficult to compare earthly time with purgatorial endurance. However the souls in Purgatory don’t resent the suffering, as they know they are getting closer to God. That they suffer is not in doubt - there is supposed to be record of purgatorial visitors leaving behind scorched hand marks on wood, if Michael Brown’s book is any guide.

As far as Hell goes, I suspect there must be some levels. I have a pretty certain opinion my own father is there, due to an episode the night he died. However his abuse was mainly to his own family, and he did nothing remotely like that of Adolf Hitler or Josef Stalin, to name just two tyrants. Nor was he a serial murderer, armed robber, terrorist, abortionist, or adulterous Casanova.

It would therefore seem to me unfair if he were to be punished in precisely the same way as Pol Pot. Yet he would share in common with all other damned souls a refusal to want to live with God on God’s terms. As CS Lewis would put it, the “gates of hell are locked on the inside”.

Since they refuse to want to know God, then what is God to do with them?

So it may be they all gravitate to the centre of hell anyway, by their own aversion to God. Who knows? But it may be that God does not allow the devil to mistreat them all to the same extent. The fact is that we don’t know. The main thing is not to go there - if we do, the business of “levels” will be purely academic - a bit like a concentration camp inmate comparing the virtues of Belsen with Dachau.

One thing that intrigued me - once a person dies, they no longer have free will in the same sense they had on earth (which explains why we cannot sin in heaven). That is not to say they are robots. But by the same token, souls in purgatory cannot pray. So they depend on our prayers and masses for them, as well as their own imposed suffering, to make headway up through the levels. And by all accounts we don’t pray enough for them, as Mary indicated at Fatima at least.

And our own sufferings can help them as well, if we offer them up for them. The problem for us is to overcome resentment at unfair sufferings. I for one complain loud and clear when I think I’ve been consistently ill treated. No doubt this doesn’t help much as reconciliation cannon fodder.

Anyway I’ve found his book helpful in a number of respects.

The one question I’ve still got was one particular phrase my father uttered when he appeared in my room the night he died, when he said, “I always was doomed! I didn’t really have any choice!” Mind you he later admitted he was “WILLING” (I’d say very willing), but I still have a problem reconciling his apparent predestination with the alleged love of God. Michael Brown’s book doesn’t cover that question.

Does Hell have different levels - logically I think it would, due to the different categories of offenders. But I really don’t know, and unless we get a heavenly visitor to tell us, it will remain a purely academic exercise of no particular value. Certainly not for the devil’s prisoners, whatever “level” they might be in.

 

[midori]

I’d meant to mention-- if you were interested in reading Dante’s Inferno, it helps to keep in mind that Dante wrote it while in exile from his home in Florence. He was dealing with a great amount of depression at the time. So while you see a lot of names in the Inferno that refer to famous historical figures (Alexander the Great) or prominent literary figures (ie, Helen of Troy), you also get a number of Florentine politicians in the mix as well that would have been immediately recognizable to a medieval Italian, but not so much to us without the aid of footnotes.

Read the original version if you want to read an awesome classic. But there are also adaptations that have more modern/recognizable personalities sprinkled in there, to better catch the references-- Wilt Chamberlain, Madonna, Saddam Hussein, etc.

I’m also of the personal opinion that there’s no one-size-fits-all kind of hell. Since hell is an active choice we make, it would follow that our actions on earth would help influence the kind of hell we end up in-- just as heaven is an active choice, and our actions on earth help influence our heavenly reward.

 

[Glennonite]

I would like to know as an aside to the OP:
Is Satan causing the pain and torture of Hell, or is it God? I would think that Satan and the demons would be more sympathetic to those who find themselves in the company of Hell. They are all against God; why would they be torturing each-other for siding against their common enemy (God)?

Glennonite

 

[midori]

I would like to know as an aside to the OP:
Is Satan causing the pain and torture of Hell, or is it God? I would think that Satan and the demons would be more sympathetic to those who find themselves in the company of Hell. They are all against God; why would they be torturing each-other for siding against their common enemy (God)?

Glennonite

There’s lots of different theories. One theory is that since God is all good, and hell is the absence of God, it follows that there’s nothing good in hell. After all, if you no longer have to “get along” under a social contract, what incentive is there to play nice with others, whether or not they share your perceptions or values? I like the CS Lewis quote from Bob Crowley upthread.

Another theory is that God is love, but love can sometimes be perceived as painful or torture. The illustration is brought up of a small child who’s determined to throw a tantrum and doesn’t want anything to do with mommy or daddy… so when their parents give them a big hug and kisses anyways, ooo, it’s painful. Not that there’s anything wrong with their parents’ expressions of love in and of themselves, but they’re perceived as torture because the child doesn’t want to have anything to do with it.

A third illustration you hear is that there’s a great banquet spread in both heaven and hell. But the people in hell have no elbows, so there’s no way they can feed themselves. They starve with all that bounty right in front of their noses. In heaven, they don’t have any elbows, either… but everyone feeds each other.

 

[RedDuke50]

Thank your for your answers.
As for your question, Glennonite, you might want to start a new thread so more people will answer your questions.

 

[Robert_Sock]

To the best of my knowledge, according to Orthodox Judaism there are varying degrees of Hell and Heaven.

 

[yy1267]

Sister Faustina’s Vision of Hell

“I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)

The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy

"Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.
The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.
The Third is
That one’s condition will never change.
The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger.
The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.
The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.

Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.

I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.

No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like…how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin." (Diary 741)

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Are there different levels of Hell? I have seen pictures of levels and I wanted to know if this was in the Church’s teaching. If there are, how many different levels are there?

Thanks,
RedDuke50

Greetings RedDuke50,

The punishment of the dammned is proportioned to each one’s guilt. (Sent. communis.)

The Union Councils of Lyons and of Florence declared that the souls of the damned are punished with unequal punishments. This is probably inteded to assert not merely a specific difference in the punishment of original sin and of personal sins, but also a difference in the degree of punishment for personal sins.

Jesus threatens the inhabitants of Corazain and Bethsaida, on account of their slowness to repent, with a stricter judgement than the dweelers of Tyre and Sidon. The Scribed are to be subject to a particularly strict judgement.

Justice demands that the punishment be commensurate with the guilt.

This was taken from the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott

So I guess from this angle there can be levels of punishment and somewhat speaking of Hell. As to how many variations or levels Hell there are, no one knows, I certainly don’t want to find out on a personal experience.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[thistle]

Why do people ask about levels of Hell or different punishments in Hell. It is irrelevant.
The worst punishment anyone in Hell suffers is eternal separation from God and everyone in Hell suffers that so who would care if there is anything additional which is anyway less than the worst punishment.

 

[MtnDwellar]

One thing that intrigued me - once a person dies, they no longer have free will in the same sense they had on earth (which explains why we cannot sin in heaven). That is not to say they are robots. But by the same token, souls in purgatory cannot pray. So they depend on our prayers and masses for them, as well as their own imposed suffering, to make headway up through the levels. And by all accounts we don’t pray enough for them, as Mary indicated at Fatima at least.

I believe this paragraph is inconsistent with Catholic teaching. I am not sure that we cannot sin in heaven. The angels were certainly capable of sin as evidenced by the fall.

Souls in purgatory are known to pray. Their prayers cannot improve their own state, but they can certainly assist people on earth.

 

[thistle]

I believe this paragraph is inconsistent with Catholic teaching. I am not sure that we cannot sin in heaven. ** The angels were certainly capable of sin as evidenced by the fall.**

Souls in purgatory are known to pray. Their prayers cannot improve their own state, but they can certainly assist people on earth.

After the fall the angels who chose to stay in Heaven could no longer sin. They are not able to reject God. Before the fall they were given a one-time choice to accept or reject God.

Assuming we make it to Heaven we cannot sin either.

HEAVEN

CCC 1023 Those who die in God’s grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live for ever with Christ. They are like God for ever, for they “see him as he is,” face to face:

By virtue of our apostolic authority, we define the following: According to the general disposition of God, the souls of all the saints . . . and other faithful who died after receiving Christ’s holy Baptism (provided they were not in need of purification when they died, . . . or, if they then did need or will need some purification, when they have been purified after death, . . .) already before they take up their bodies again and before the general judgment - and this since the Ascension of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ into heaven - have been, are and will be in heaven, in the heavenly Kingdom and celestial paradise with Christ, joined to the company of the holy angels. Since the Passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ, these souls have seen and do see the divine essence with an intuitive vision, and even face to face, without the mediation of any creature.

CCC 1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

CCC 1025 To live in heaven is “to be with Christ.” The elect live "in Christ,"600 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name.

For life is to be with Christ; where Christ is, there is life, there is the kingdom.

CCC 1026 By his death and Resurrection, Jesus Christ has “opened” heaven to us. The life of the blessed consists in the full and perfect possession of the fruits of the redemption accomplished by Christ. He makes partners in his heavenly glorification those who have believed in him and remained faithful to his will. Heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ.

CCC 1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father’s house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: “no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him.”

CCC 1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory “the beatific vision”:

How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God’s friends.

CCC 1029 In the glory of heaven the blessed continue joyfully to fulfill God’s will in relation to other men and to all creation. Already they reign with Christ; with him "they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Jesus_123]

For those who died before Christ’s death on the Cross . . . in the **Old :bible1: Testament **times it was revealed that there were . . . two (2) levels of hell . . . spoken of . . . as revealed in the **New :bible1: Testament ** about Lazarus the holy begger . . . and an uncrossable chasm between them . . .

One of those levels was called. . . “Abraham’s Bosom” . . . (Paradise) . . . this is what the sweet . . . Psalmist of God . . . King David . . . knew and spoke of when he shared he would go to his little son . . . but his little son couldn’t come back to him here on earth . . . (2 Samuel 12:23) . . . below is the passage in the New :bible1: Testament sharing the two level nature of hell . . . the upper level of which . . . no longer exists . . . since Christ Jesus took all those waiting souls resting in Father Abraham’s Bosom to heaven with him . . . after His atoning death on the Cross . . .

. . . :coffeeread: . . .
THE HOLY :bible1: BIBLE
Luke 16:19-31

[19] There was a certain rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen; and feasted sumptuously every day. [20] “And there was a certain beggar, named Lazarus, who lay at his gate, full of sores,” [21] Desiring to be filled with the crumbs that fell from the rich man’s table, and no one did give him; moreover the dogs came, and licked his sores. [22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels :angel1: into Abraham’s bosom. And the rich man also died: and he was buried in hell. [23] And lifting up his eyes when he was in torments, he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom: [24] And he cried, and said: Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, to cool my tongue: for I am tormented in this flame. [25] And Abraham said to him: Son, remember that thou didst receive good things in thy lifetime, and likewise Lazareth evil things, but now he is comforted; and thou art tormented.

Bishop Challoner’s Douay Rheims Commentary: [22] Abraham’s bosom: The place of rest, where the souls of the saints resided, till Christ had opened heaven by his death. *
[26] And besides all this, between us and you, there is fixed a great chaos: so that they who would pass from hence to you, cannot, nor from thence come hither. [27] And he said: Then, father, I beseech thee, that thou wouldst send him to my father’s house, for I have five brethren, [28] That he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. [29] And Abraham said to him: They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. [30] But he said: No, father Abraham: but if one went to them from the dead, they will do penance. [31]​

* And he said to him: If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they believe, if one rise again from the dead.**​

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Blessed Virgin Mary our Mother+
. . . thank you Blessed Holy Mother Church+
. . . thank you Blessed St. Jerome+​