different masses?

[PrayforMallory]

Also, be aware that the TLM of today may be slightly different than what we were used to back then. Today’s TLM by most accounts is probably MORE reverent and deliberate than what us old codgers grew up with. More of a romanticized version, so to speak.

From what I’ve seen, this has to be true. I’ve heard that back in the old days, priests used to rush through TLMs. It’s strange to me,because the TLM I go to is so much longer than the Ordinary Form Masses I was used to. Also, I noticed that all the really edifying elements (Latin, Chant, Vestments, Torches, etc.) are popping back into the OF in some places.

I guess maybe, having both available ensures both are celebrated properly?

 

[PrayforMallory]

**Of course you are, and (I’m assuming it’s Eastern Catholic) you can fulfill your Sunday obligation and receive Communion.

BUT** don’t expect the Eastern Catholic Churches to be the last refuge of pre-V2 Latin Catholicism. Take them on their own terms.

What exactly are the differences? Could you be a little more specific about taking them on their own terms?

I’m really interested.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Also, to prove I’m not a Pauline Mass hater, I should let people know I’m going to a Pauline Wedding this weekend.

I’m just big on beauty. My forays into doctrinal discussions just left me confused.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Thanks for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut everybody. This matter has weighed heavily on my heart. I want to thank you for re-assuring me on this matter, also to know, there is yet something else I’ve yet to experience, so I look forward to it and I will take my friends advice with a grain of salt.

I still have to convey to him what’s being said here, this is not simply a matter of opinion, I’m too imbedded within his cause of which, I never knew it was going this direction. I thought I was serving the church by helping him, and perhaps if I can find a way of getting through to him, I will, but for now, I have no choice in this matter along taking some form of action.

PM me for the URL and more details on this, I don’t feel further dialog in this matter should become displayed in a public forum.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Thanks for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut everybody. This matter has weighed heavily on my heart. I want to thank you for re-assuring me on this matter, also to know, there is yet something else I’ve yet to experience, so I look forward to it and I will take my friends advice with a grain of salt.

I still have to convey to him what’s being said here, this is not simply a matter of opinion, I’m too imbedded within his cause of which, I never knew it was going this direction. I thought I was serving the church by helping him, and perhaps if I can find a way of getting through to him, I will, but for now, I have no choice in this matter along taking some form of action.

PM me for the URL and more details on this, I don’t feel further dialog in this matter should become displayed in a public forum.

Thanks for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut everybody. This matter has weighed heavily on my heart. I want to thank you for re-assuring me on this matter, also to know, there is yet something else I’ve yet to experience, so I look forward to it and I will take my friends advice with a grain of salt.

I still have to convey to him what’s being said here, this is not simply a matter of opinion, I’m too imbedded within his cause of which, I never knew it was going this direction. I thought I was serving the church by helping him, and perhaps if I can find a way of getting through to him, I will, but for now, I have no choice in this matter along taking some form of action.

PM me for the URL and more details on this, I don’t feel further dialog in this matter should become displayed in a public forum.

I would just say, to close it, to not worry about all this doctrinal stuff. Just go to the TLM with an open mind/heart, and you’ll be able to have an honest opinion about it.

Also, take this forum with a grain of salt. People on both sides want to holler “Schismatic” right and left. For some, it’s a scare tactic, to keep people away from the TLM (by implying that going makes one a schismatic). For some, it’s a desire to be “holier than thou.” For others, it’s part of doctrinal disputes(that are never resolved in any kind of constructive way).

If someone were to come on here and say, "I want to go to a TLM, people would immediately say, “Don’t go to SSPX,” as if that was even what you were talking about. It’d be the same as someone coming on here and saying, "I want to go to the Pauline Mass, and me saying, “Don’t go to Call to Action!” which of course I don’t do, because it’s absurd.

Don’t buy into this erroneous portrayal of traditional Catholics (or other Orthodox Catholics) as schismatics. I’ve never gone to a Church not in communion with the local Bishop and Rome. As a matter of fact, the Archbishop here started his own traditionalist order. I hope he is Pope one day.

 

[ethelzguy]

From what I’ve seen, this has to be true. I’ve heard that back in the old days, priests used to rush through TLMs. It’s strange to me,because the TLM I go to is so much longer than the Ordinary Form Masses I was used to.

Let’s use a '57 Chevy for an analogy. Back in the late 50’s and 60’s, they were everywhere. The majority were dirty, scratched, dented, or missing a hubcap. Some were still mint.

Today, if you find one, chances are that it’s been restored to the nines, garage kept, and maybe even tarped, so when it’s brought out it is resplendent in it’s glory.

Probably the same with the Latin Mass. Back then, it was the norm, even taken for granted. Nowadays when you encounter one, it’s dressed out to the nines. And, you didn’t have to be alive in the 50’s or 60’s to appreciate the beauty of one today.

Make sense?

 

[japhy]

Also, be aware that the TLM of today may be slightly different than what we were used to back then. Today’s TLM by most accounts is probably MORE reverent and deliberate than what us old codgers grew up with. More of a romanticized version, so to speak.

Why “romanticized”? Why not simply more “reverent and deliberate”? Is a more reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form a “romanticized” version, since historically, the Ordinary Form has only rarely (or in few places) been celebrated according to its prescriptions?

 

[ethelzguy]

Why “romanticized”? Why not simply more “reverent and deliberate”? Is a more reverent celebration of the Ordinary Form a “romanticized” version, since historically, the Ordinary Form has only rarely (or in few places) been celebrated according to its prescriptions?

See '57 Chevy analogy above.

 

[Like]

From what I’ve seen, this has to be true. I’ve heard that back in the old days, priests used to rush through TLMs. It’s strange to me,because the TLM I go to is so much longer than the Ordinary Form Masses I was used to. Also, I noticed that all the really edifying elements (Latin, Chant, Vestments, Torches, etc.) are popping back into the OF in some places.

I guess maybe, having both available ensures both are celebrated properly?

Sorry, but I really don’t remember in “The Old Days” the priest rushing through the Mass. IMHO the priest in the old days of the TLM were more reverent & not like today, they followed the GIRM to the “T”. You are very fortunate to have the TLM available to you! I don’t believe I’ll ever be able to attend another TLM in my life time. Only one in the state and would have to hop a plane for it, no can do.

 

[PrayforMallory]

Sorry, but I really don’t remember in “The Old Days” the priest rushing through the Mass. IMHO the priest in the old days of the TLM were more reverent & not like today, they followed the GIRM to the “T”. You are very fortunate to have the TLM available to you! I don’t believe I’ll ever be able to attend another TLM in my life time. Only one in the state and would have to hop a plane for it, no can do.

Well, I wasn’t around in those days, so I’m not an expert.

I really hope you can get a TLM soon. I really feel bad, because I’m not worthy of getting to go.
When I didn’t live in my current diocese, I couldn’t attend a TLM (nobody even mentioned it ever). It was a very protestantized Church, due to the overwhelmingly protestant culture in the region. I can’t imagine not having access to the TLM. I hope you can get one near you!

 

[Like]

Well, I wasn’t around in those days, so I’m not an expert.

I really hope you can get a TLM soon. I really feel bad, because I’m not worthy of getting to go.
When I didn’t live in my current diocese, I couldn’t attend a TLM (nobody even mentioned it ever). It was a very protestantized Church, due to the overwhelmingly protestant culture in the region. I can’t imagine not having access to the TLM. I hope you can get one near you!

Thanks PrayforMallory! Hawaii is the most liberal state in the nation! I left the Church for over 30 years because of the OF & only returned upon JP II’s death. I loved/love that man like my dad, I know that sounds funny coming from Traditionalist, But I’m not a Radical Traditionalist like a couple on this forum.

I returned and decided I had better get my life together and excepted the NO (OF), got active in the Church, became a EMHC biting my tongue the whole time. The abuses only grew in my parish and growing tired of seeking for a Mass without them.

Please pray for me!

 

[ProVobis]

Why are people allowed to slander the NO Mass?

Just a gentle reminder, Cat, the so-called NO Mass is now the OF. It sounds better. NO sounds like slander itself, yes?

 

[ProVobis]

Sorry, but I really don’t remember in “The Old Days” the priest rushing through the Mass.

I don’t either. Take away the sermons and both forms (using Eucharistic Prayer I in the OF) are about equally as long. Or short, if you want to look at it that way.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**What exactly are the differences? Could you be a little more specific about taking them on their own terms?

I’m really interested.**

Abtract explanations will never suffice. As Nathaniel said, "Come and see."

 

[bpbasilphx]

Sorry, but I really don’t remember in “The Old Days” the priest rushing through the Mass.

I’ve heard some stories–but I point out, “I’ve heard some stories”: I don’t claim to know from my own experience and observation.

 

[missymichelle]

I think the idea of enforcing the latin mass is a wonderful thing.It will give the little old blue haired ladies another place to say their rosaries. The priest facing the other way will also give daydreamers an opportunity to ply their craft. Don’t worry about the liturgy being celebrated in a language most don’t understand because the ring a bell at times when we should be awake.
Those interested in the latin mass also are interested in everybody looking forward to opportunities to suffer because Jesus did not do enough, but don’t worry the dictators who want to oppress their people can use this to make their people accepting AGAIN.

 

[japhy]

I think the idea of enforcing the latin mass is a wonderful thing. It will give the little old blue haired ladies another place to say their rosaries. The priest facing the other way will also give daydreamers an opportunity to ply their craft. Don’t worry about the liturgy being celebrated in a language most don’t understand because the ring a bell at times when we should be awake. Those interested in the latin mass also are interested in everybody looking forward to opportunities to suffer because Jesus did not do enough, but don’t worry the dictators who want to oppress their people can use this to make their people accepting AGAIN.

Wow. Was that really necessary? Please go pray a rosary (with the little old blue haired ladies) and ask for the virtue of charity.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Ok, I’ve been dwelling on this one and I think I figured out the logic behind the purpose for the new mass and still having the latin mass in tact equally.

First, the new mass is more condusive to bringing in new people, especially protestants, this is the reason the protestants were consulted during it’s construction. If you simply were curios about the Catholic faith and the only thing that was presented to you was the latin mass, the first thing most people would think would be that it’s a cult, we still face that same scrutiny with the new mass, but not as much.

Second, for those of us that were raised and have only experienced the new mass all of our lives that desire more, we can explore the latin mass and partake of it’s rich heritage, this is something new to us, kind of like a bonus. For those of us that desire to cling to strict tradition, we can still take part in the old ways through the latin mass.

Third, the world has changed dramatically since the formation and use of the latin mass. We no longer need to “code” what we say or do during it, of which the speaking of latin was used for that very manner. Take note of the times during the early church where they had to worship and fellowship in secret, with covert symbols, cloak and dagger stuff to the hilt, knowing full well our lives were in peril simply by doing so. This new mass is clearly declaring that change in the very concept of the church itself and has been long overdue.

I’ll dwell on this more, but I see a very logical reason for it having been instituted, Praise be to God!

 

[ethelzguy]

the world has changed dramatically since the formation and use of the latin mass. We no longer need to “code” what we say or do during it, of which the speaking of latin was used for that very manner. Take note of the times during the early church where they had to worship and fellowship in secret, with covert symbols, cloak and dagger stuff to the hilt, knowing full well our lives were in peril simply by doing so. This new mass is clearly declaring that change in the very concept of the church itself and has been long overdue.

I’ll dwell on this more, but I see a very logical reason for it having been instituted, Praise be to God!

An interesting theory. I like it.

 

[Our_Refuge]

=Brian Millar;3835514]

First, the new mass is more condusive to bringing in new people, especially protestants, this is the reason the protestants were consulted during it’s construction

.
I agree that Lutherans, Methodists and Anglicans were consulted.

If you simply were curios about the Catholic faith and the only thing that was presented to you was the latin mass, the first thing most people would think would be that it’s a cult,

Believe it or not there were protestants that joined the Church when the Mass was in Latin. Imagine that!

Second, for those of us that were raised and have only experienced the new mass all of our lives that desire more, we can explore the latin mass and partake of it’s rich heritage, this is something new to us, kind of like a bonus

.
I was raised in the Latin Mass and it is a bonus whenever I get to go.

Third, the world has changed dramatically since the formation and use of the latin mass. We no longer need to “code” what we say or do during it, of which the speaking of latin was used for that very manner.

Interesting theory but wrong. Latin was not a “code” language. Do you really believe that for 1400 years the Mass was in code?

[Take note of the times during the early church where they had to worship and fellowship in secret, with **covert symbols, cloak and dagger stuff to the hilt,

,
In the early Church,during the persecutions, the Mass was in the vernacular. Are you going to blame the vernacular for all of the “cloak and dagger stuff”?

This new mass is clearly declaring that change in the very **concept of the church **itself and has been long overdue

.
So for 1400 years of the Latin Mass the “concept” of the church was wrong? Have we really become that much wiser? Mass attendance is down, massive priest shortage, most Catholics no longer know the teachings of the Church as was recently demonstrated.

"A Virginia affiliate of** Catholic Charities is being investigated by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services for helping a 16-year-old Guatemalan girl be fit with a contraceptive device and obtain an abortion**, in possible violation of Virginia law and in direct contradiction to the teachings of the Catholic faith…In the letter from Bishops DiLorenzo, Wester, and Driscoll to other bishops in the USCCB, they wrote “Some members of the MRS staff **were not sufficiently aware of church teaching **and [USCCB] policy regarding these matters to take stronger and more appropriate actions.”

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13000