different masses?

[Brian_Millar]

The hostility is unwarrented over this matter. Clearly you and I view things differently.

I’ll share something here from personal experience that might help, and it will also show what I’m saying here more clearly. Several years ago I stopped going to mass. Partially this was due to how I did not understand, nor apprieciated the ceremony. I loath redudancy even to this day, yet upon my return I noticed there was much less of it. The irony behind it, if I was raised within the latin mass, I likely would have left sooner, especially since the church would have represented more of an exclusive clique, unaproachable by any outside parties.

I take the Popes authority over your’s, over that priests, over every single human being on planet earth when it comes to the church, it’s stance, and it’s teachings. If you do not do the same, then you are in error, you have placed yourself into a position of authority over the church, and at that stage, you might as well just become a protestant, for that stance will fit right in line with them and the reformation. You see, you are much closer to them then you are to the true church, it’s sad really because that stance drives people away more then draws them near.

Yes, the church is going through a rough time, well, guess what, it has in the past as well, it will continue to do so in the future. This is just a given and during these times of distress, it is even more important to support it, to remain steadfast with your faith and in spite of your personal differences, showing obedience during these times requires you to relinquish your personal tastes and biases.

Do I personally feel it should, or should not do things? It is not my position to question, I am not the authority, luckily we indeed do have one. I am also not a legalist, this is a dangerous perspective I’ve seen happen with both Catholics and Protestants, yes, I do not know every single minute detail and fraction of element about the Church, I too am learning, then again, I am not a priest, I guess you are, or you think you are…

 

[japhy]

The hostility is unwarrented over this matter. … I am not a priest, I guess you are, or you think you are…

Let’s not answer hostility (real or perceived) with hostility (real or perceived).

… the church would have represented more of an exclusive clique, unaproachable by any outside parties.

That’s a caricature. Plenty of non-Catholics converted to the Church before Vatican II. Do you think they did it because (or in spite of that) they had no idea what was going on?

I take the Popes authority over your’s, over that priests, over every single human being on planet earth when it comes to the church, it’s stance, and it’s teachings. If you do not do the same, then you are in error, you have placed yourself into a position of authority over the church, and at that stage, you might as well just become a protestant, for that stance will fit right in line with them and the reformation. You see, you are much closer to them then you are to the true church

What did Our Refuge say that you’re questioning his obedience to the Pope? Where was he making himself to be an authority? He was relating some facts and some experiential data. (I believe that combination is called “faith sharing” nowadays.)

Do I personally feel it should, or should not do things? It is not my position to question, I am not the authority, luckily we indeed do have one.

You can have an opinion – even disagree with authority – without disobeying that authority. For instance, I think the Holy See acted imprudently allowing Communion in the hand; but I’m not disobedient because of my difference of opinion.

 

[Brian_Millar]

“You can have an opinion – even disagree with authority – without disobeying that authority. For instance, I think the Holy See acted imprudently allowing Communion in the hand; but I’m not disobedient because of my difference of opinion.”

On this point, to be frank, Christ simply passed the bread and wine to his apostles, they broke the bread, they shared the same cup, if you want to go that route, might as well duplicate it down to the t. Take it further, making sure the table is a certain size, that there is an exact number of people, make sure the tablecloth looks like the one painted in Davinci’s Last supper… etc. etc. etc. You see how dangerous it can be, and how far it can be taken over simple matters. To be literal, taken by the hand is in fact more biblical when it comes to trying to recreate the original, regardless of how it’s taken, it’s still the body and blood of Christ.

I choose to obey the pope without question, I may not know his logic, but I know he managed to attain his position for a very good reason. I’ll simply trust his leadership and in cases where I receive conflicting opinions, his always trumps all others, that’s all.

 

[japhy]

To be literal, taken by the hand is in fact more biblical when it comes to trying to recreate the original, regardless of how it’s taken, it’s still the body and blood of Christ.

Yes, and I didn’t like seeing so many fragments of his Precious Body on my hands so often. That’s why I receive on the tongue now. It’s not an issue of “how was it originally done?” for me. It’s a matter of reverence and concern for the Eucharist, for me at least.

If I wanted to do it the way the apostles did, I’d be reclined at table after having had my feet washed. But we’re not trying to replicate the Last Supper.

 

[muffinmojo]

First, the new mass is more condusive to bringing in new people, especially protestants, this is the reason the protestants were consulted during it’s construction. If you simply were curios about the Catholic faith and the only thing that was presented to you was the latin mass, the first thing most people would think would be that it’s a cult, we still face that same scrutiny with the new mass, but not as much.

I was an evangelical protestant, praise and worship and all that, who was drawn in solely by the traditions and orthodoxy of Catholicism. Luckily I managed to stumble into the only traditional/loyal to Rome OF parish in the Seattle area(that I’m aware of). The EF has drawn one of my friends, also a very modernist protestant, to the faith, and it has intrigued and piqued the interest of several fallen-away Catholics and unreligious people who are turned off by modern Christianity with ‘those stupid Jesus songs’(quote, not my opinion).

 

[PrayforMallory]

I was an evangelical protestant, praise and worship and all that, who was drawn in solely by the traditions and orthodoxy of Catholicism. Luckily I managed to stumble into the only traditional/loyal to Rome OF parish in the Seattle area(that I’m aware of). The EF has drawn one of my friends, also a very modernist protestant, to the faith, and it has intrigued and piqued the interest of several fallen-away Catholics and unreligious people who are turned off by modern Christianity with ‘those stupid Jesus songs’(quote, not my opinion).

Same here. I was a protestant once. It was the tradition I was after. The sheer beauty, depth, orthodoxy, and theology of Catholic spirituality drew me in.

 

[Brian_Millar]

muffin, perhaps I’ll run into you there, I have that one and another that was reccomended. I’m in Tacoma so it’s a drive to get there.