Different rites of the Catholic Church

[Trebor135]

1. Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (major archiepiscopate): Ukraine, Poland, United States, Canada, Great Britain, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, France, Brazil, Argentina (1595)

Thanks for providing that list.

And I invite everyone to watch and marvel at this exemplar of a Divine Liturgy (presented in the format of a YouTube playlist) as celebrated at St. Elias Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church–a parish spoken of on CAF, indeed in the Eastern Catholicism section, in glowing terms. I have been blessed enough to attend Vespers there the past two Saturdays, and am able to attest to the majesty of the service and the friendliness of the people.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Saying they have different theology could be misleading. It sounds like different belief on various matters.

Only if one doesn’t know what “theology” actually means.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks for providing that list.

And I invite everyone to watch and marvel at this exemplar of a Divine Liturgy (presented in the format of a YouTube playlist) as celebrated at St. Elias Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church–a parish spoken of on CAF, indeed in the Eastern Catholicism section, in glowing terms. I have been blessed enough to attend Vespers there the past two Saturdays, and am able to attest to the majesty of the service and the friendliness of the people.

I’ve heard someone make a comment that St. Elias isn’t entirely faithful to the Ukrainian tradition, that many of what they do is more faithful to the Greek tradition.

 

[Trebor135]

I’ve heard someone make a comment that St. Elias isn’t entirely faithful to the Ukrainian tradition, that many of what they do is more faithful to the Greek tradition.

Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about either of those rites to make a comment. All I can say is that, in whatever ways St. Elias may fall short in adhering to its tradition’s liturgical praxis, the chocolate-chip banana bread on offer two days ago demonstrated that its parishioners have held faithfully to the custom of preparing divine culinary concoctions…

Now back to our regularly-scheduled programming…

 

[ConstantineTG]

I can’t say much as well, but that is what I have been told.

 

[komeeks18]

Thank you for all your replies! I understand it a lot more now!

 

[grandfather]

Only if one doesn’t know what “theology” actually means.

Correct. What happens in these kinds of threads is someone who is coming from an entirely different background and needs as simple understandable answer as possible asks a basic question about faith or the Church. The responders, schooled in nuances and details the poser of the question could not possibly grasp get into a dialogue between themselves that leaves the original poster scratching his head, lost and confused.

In trying to answer the enquirer’s question simply and directly, to give a basic understanding that can saitisfy him so he can move on to other more important things than swallowing camels and straining at gnats as some religious people are wont to do since the time of Jesus or before, keep it simple and direct, or the next thing you know we will be discussing the sacking of Constantinople and the crusades.

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’m kind of puzzled here.

Please would you give me a link to this Bull of Pope John Paul II which set up this Parish in Las Vegas ?

I had always understood that Our Lady of Wisdom in Las Vegas was erected by Bishop George Kuzma on his own initiative and authority.

+Bishop George of blessed memory, while he may have been very proactive and insistent in promoting this cause, would not be empowered directly as a hierarch of the Ruthenian Church to erect a parish of another sui juris Church and/or Rite.

That said, I’m sure he knew how to work the system. The level and fervor of his involvement comes as no surprise to those who know the hierarchical history of the Ruthenian Church in the U.S. From what I know and remember of +Bishop George, this was completely in character. May his memory be eternal!

 

[ByzCathCantor]

I’ve heard someone make a comment that St. Elias isn’t entirely faithful to the Ukrainian tradition, that many of what they do is more faithful to the Greek tradition.

You wouldn’t know it from what one can see of them in person or via YouTube!

I’ve gotten a lot of education on Ukrainian liturgy and custom from the good folks and faithful ministers of St. Elias.

 

[grandfather]

Thank you for all your replies! I understand it a lot more now!

Maybe this can be of additional help.

Jesus chose and appointed His apostles to take His gospel to all the nations of the world according to the Bible. Peter ended up in Rome. Thomas went to India. One of the James went to what is now Spain. Andrew or Phillip went to Africa and so on.

They all preached the same message, the same doctrine, but these areas are remote from one another and were isolated. There was no radio, telephone, or means of communication between one and another. They were essentially isolated from one another yet they all had the same belief, or faith.

The way this one faith is expressed, the style of how they pray and worship developed differently in different places.

Scripture tells us that the Church has ordained ministers, bishops (episcopoi), priests (presbyeters), and deacons. All the churches throughout the world have people who hold these positions or offices with authority to teach, as Jesus commanded in scripture, for all time. They teach the same gospel wherever they are, the same spiritual truths taught to the apostles by Jesus.

We learn the faith that is passed on from generation to generation.

The definition of apostle is one who is sent. The Church is sent by Jesus to all the nations of the world to preach His message of salvation. It is the same message wherever you go, but if you go into a church in India, brought there by the apostle Thomas, or Spain, brought there by James, and listen to the prayers and hymns they will be different in style. This difference is only a matter of style or culture, not difference in doctrine. It is everywhere the same faith Jesus taught His followers and can not change for all time.

The word catholic is a Greek word that means universal. The message and truths of salvation are universally the same everywhere and for all nations and people. Whether you are an African tribesman, an Eskimo seal hunter, a Chinese merchant, an American engineer, or a Hawaiian hula dancer, the same message applies to you. He told them to “go to all nations and preach the good news of repentance for forgiveness of sins”. Wherever and whomever you are, you are sinful and God’s mercy is yours if you turn from your sins. Nothng has changed from the time of Jesus. This simple universal (catholic) message is still the same everywhere, preached by His Church, and each person can take it or leave it.

 

[johndoe100]

The Catholic Church is made up of, if I’m not mistaken, 23 sui juris (meaning: self-governing) Churches with equal dignity. One of which is the Latin Rite Church or more famously known as the Roman Catholic Church.

The other 22 sui juris churches are Easter Rite churches which are similar, if not identical, to the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Churches. The only difference is that the Eastern Churches (or Eastern Catholic Churches) are in full communion with the Pope.

The Church of England is a break-away from the Latin Rite Church, since England at the time of King Henry VI was part of the Roman Church. So Anglicans who come home to Catholicism are generally under the Roman Church.

Just remember: The Latin Rite or Roman Church is not the primary or the supreme Church, rather she is co-equal in dignity with the other sui juris Churches. It just so happens, the seat of Peter is in Rome.

Are the Lutheran’s part of the 23 Catholic self governing churches?*

 

[RyanBlack]

Are the Lutheran’s part of the 23 Catholic self governing churches?*

No.

 

[grandfather]

Are the Lutheran’s part of the 23 Catholic self governing churches?*

Lutherans are Protestants.

All Catholic churches are united by their profession of a common faith and recognition of the bishop of Rome, the pope, as the visible head of the Church, the vicar of Christ. This would place Martin Luther and his disciples outside, separated from, the communion of the Catholic Church.

 

[komeeks18]

Maybe this can be of additional help.

Jesus chose and appointed His apostles to take His gospel to all the nations of the world according to the Bible. Peter ended up in Rome. Thomas went to India. One of the James went to what is now Spain. Andrew or Phillip went to Africa and so on.

They all preached the same message, the same doctrine, but these areas are remote from one another and were isolated. There was no radio, telephone, or means of communication between one and another. They were essentially isolated from one another yet they all had the same belief, or faith.

The way this one faith is expressed, the style of how they pray and worship developed differently in different places.

Scripture tells us that the Church has ordained ministers, bishops (episcopoi), priests (presbyeters), and deacons. All the churches throughout the world have people who hold these positions or offices with authority to teach, as Jesus commanded in scripture, for all time. They teach the same gospel wherever they are, the same spiritual truths taught to the apostles by Jesus.

We learn the faith that is passed on from generation to generation.

The definition of apostle is one who is sent. The Church is sent by Jesus to all the nations of the world to preach His message of salvation. It is the same message wherever you go, but if you go into a church in India, brought there by the apostle Thomas, or Spain, brought there by James, and listen to the prayers and hymns they will be different in style. This difference is only a matter of style or culture, not difference in doctrine. It is everywhere the same faith Jesus taught His followers and can not change for all time.

The word catholic is a Greek word that means universal. The message and truths of salvation are universally the same everywhere and for all nations and people. Whether you are an African tribesman, an Eskimo seal hunter, a Chinese merchant, an American engineer, or a Hawaiian hula dancer, the same message applies to you. He told them to “go to all nations and preach the good news of repentance for forgiveness of sins”. Wherever and whomever you are, you are sinful and God’s mercy is yours if you turn from your sins. Nothng has changed from the time of Jesus. This simple universal (catholic) message is still the same everywhere, preached by His Church, and each person can take it or leave it.

Okay, that really helped me understand it. I’m definitely no longer confused! Thank you very much!

 

[Vico]

(I had no idea where to put this thread. So I just put it here. It may need to be moved, though!) Of course there is the Roman Catholic Church. But what are the different Churches that are still considered Catholic? There is Orthodox, I know. Is the “Eastern Church” and the “Orthodox Church” the same Church? And what about the Church of England? I’m confused about whether these Churches are still considered Catholic or not. And they major differences between them. I am definitely a Christian, but I’m learning more about Christianity and I want to learn more about Catholicism. I’ve been raised, saved, and baptized Protestant, but I believe the Roman Catholic Church is the one true church started by Jesus Christ, but I still need to learn more. I really appreciate your replies and explanations! Thank you and God bless!

The Latin Church and eastern Catholic Churches are in full communion. The Orthodox (Eastern, Oriental, and Assyrian) are not in full communion, nor is the Polish National Catholic Church. They are apostolic though and have valid sacraments.

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[grandfather]

Okay, that really helped me understand it. I’m definitely no longer confused! Thank you very much!

Great. Now from this understanding and other things Jesus said to His apostles you can next understand something about authority.

Look in the Bible to see what Jesus told His apostles to do and the promises He made to them and also the things He said only to Peter.

He gave them the power to forgive sins. He told them to teach all nations everything He taught them. He said what you bind on earth I will bind in heaven, meaning He was guaranteeing, standing behind the doctrine they teach. He said there was much He wanted to tell them, but they could not bear (understand) it yet, but He would send the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth to them and be with them for all time. He says, I will never abandon you. I will not leave you orphans. There is more, but there in the Bible you see Jesus telling them and us how, by what authority, we the nations will learn God’s message of salvation.

He gives these men He picked and ordained the authority to speak for Him to teach the whole world the truths of salvation. The Church has teaching authority given her by God and guaranteed by God to be true forever.

Jesus says to them, “He who hears you hears me. He who refuses to hear you refuses me”.

This is a very different understanding than that of Luther and Protestantism. Luther said all authority is in scripture, but scripture says God gave teaching to His Church He founded on men.

If all authority is in scripture there is none left to be in the Church. This is backwards. The Church produced the Bible.

But in other words you see in the Bible Jesus telling us, I am sending my teaching to you through apostles (those who are sent) and you do not have to worry about it being false. They speak for me and by the power of the Holy Spirit the things they tell you will be true. I will not allow them to believe or teach what is false. I make this promise for all time.

Then look at what He says to Peter only. I give you the keys to my kingdom. He asks Him three times do you love me. Finally He tells Him, “Feed my sheep”. Peter is the first to confess who Jesus is when Jesus asks the apostles who do they think He is. “You are the Son of God”. Keys open and lock doors or gates. Does the Bible have the keys to heaven or does Peter have them?

We have two questions and two answers. Jesus asks you the same two questions He asked Peter. If you answer the same as Peter, agree with Peter, heaven is opened to you by Peter’s keys.

 

[komeeks18]

Great. Now from this understanding and other things Jesus said to His apostles you can next understand something about authority.

Look in the Bible to see what Jesus told His apostles to do and the promises He made to them and also the things He said only to Peter.

He gave them the power to forgive sins. He told them to teach all nations everything He taught them. He said what you bind on earth I will bind in heaven, meaning He was guaranteeing, standing behind the doctrine they teach. He said there was much He wanted to tell them, but they could not bear (understand) it yet, but He would send the Holy Spirit to reveal all truth to them and be with them for all time. He says, I will never abandon you. I will not leave you orphans. There is more, but there in the Bible you see Jesus telling them and us how, by what authority, we the nations will learn God’s message of salvation.

He gives these men He picked and ordained the authority to speak for Him to teach the whole world the truths of salvation. The Church has teaching authority given her by God and guaranteed by God to be true forever.

Jesus says to them, “He who hears you hears me. He who refuses to hear you refuses me”.

This is a very different understanding than that of Luther and Protestantism. Luther said all authority is in scripture, but scripture says God gave teaching to His Church He founded on men.

If all authority is in scripture there is none left to be in the Church. This is backwards. The Church produced the Bible.

But in other words you see in the Bible Jesus telling us, I am sending my teaching to you through apostles (those who are sent) and you do not have to worry about it being false. They speak for me and by the power of the Holy Spirit the things they tell you will be true. I will not allow them to believe or teach what is false. I make this promise for all time.

Then look at what He says to Peter only. I give you the keys to my kingdom. He asks Him three times do you love me. Finally He tells Him, “Feed my sheep”. Peter is the first to confess who Jesus is when Jesus asks the apostles who do they think He is. “You are the Son of God”. Keys open and lock doors or gates. Does the Bible have the keys to heaven or does Peter have them?

We have two questions and two answers. Jesus asks you the same two questions He asked Peter. If you answer the same as Peter, agree with Peter, heaven is opened to you by Peter’s keys.

Thank you for your explanation. I believe the Catholic Church is the Church started by Jesus and Peter, but I also value the Bible. But I think the Catholic Church’s teachings match up with the Bible with the correct interpretation.

 

[Maryann_C]

It is not right to call us branches. We see ourselves more as separate plants in the garden of God, rather than a branch from one tree. This is because we have distinct traditions that develop separately.

BUT Jesus said He is the vine and we are the branches?

 

[Maryann_C]

Thank You (name removed by moderator)! That’s not the one, but it’s better than what I saw!

is there a web link I would love to print it?

 

[Maryann_C]

I, keep it simple and direct, or the next thing you know we will be discussing the sacking of Constantinople and the crusades.

LOL that might be a good way of saying you just gave the OP the CAF version of the KISS of peace!
I for one am only somewhat less confused on the whole subject but have decided to give it up to God and just make sure I am with the magisterium.

And incase no one mentioned it - the Church of England is also NOT Catholic ( even though some are of the 'Oxford movement) although we now have some who are being accepted back into full communion with Rome and their own Anglican rite ordinariate…right after I had entered the RC Church from the C of E on my own!