Different types of liturgies

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So I know a lot of people in this forum prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. I am not familiar with all the names of the different types of masses. The current post-Vatican II mass is called the Novus Ordo? What is the proper name for it (the mass where the priest faces the congregation during the consecration). Also, is there a name for a mass where it is more traditional (where the priest turns his back to the congregants and consecrates the elements) but says the mass in English, not in latin? If someone could answer or provide a link to the names of these types of masses, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
 
codefro said:
So I know a lot of people in this forum prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. I am not familiar with all the names of the different types of masses. The current post-Vatican II mass is called the Novus Ordo? What is the proper name for it (the mass where the priest faces the congregation during the consecration). Also, is there a name for a mass where it is more traditional (where the priest turns his back to the congregants and consecrates the elements) but says the mass in English, not in latin? If someone could answer or provide a link to the names of these types of masses, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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In both forms of the Mass, the priest can face either way. It just so happens that it is most common for priests celebrating the post-Vatican II form of the Mass to face towards the congregation, and for priests celebrating the pre-Vatican II form of the Mass to face in the same direction as the congregation. (The idea was not to turn his back on the people, but rather it comes from an old custom that all present would face East together, since the East in Scripture is mentioned as the place the Lord will come from.)

The following names are in varying degrees of common usage:
For the pre-Vatican II Mass: Traditional Latin Mass (TLM); Tridentine Mass; Extraordinary Form (EF); Mass of Pius V; Mass of John XXIII; 1962 Mass.

For the post-Vatican II Mass: Novus Ordo (NO); Ordinary Form (OF); Mass of Paul VI; Pauline Mass.
Pope Benedict, in particular, has taken to calling the two forms the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Roman Time. For the modern Mass, “Mass of Paul VI” is probably the most official name.
 
The Novus Ordo is called the Ordinary Form.

Yes, there are other traditional forms in English.
York Use, the Anglican Use, and the Sarum Rite.

All three are still offered, but only the Anglican Use with any regularity.
 
codefro said:
So I know a lot of people in this forum prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. I am not familiar with all the names of the different types of masses. The current post-Vatican II mass is called the Novus Ordo? What is the proper name for it (the mass where the priest faces the congregation during the consecration). Also, is there a name for a mass where it is more traditional (where the priest turns his back to the congregants and consecrates the elements) but says the mass in English, not in latin? If someone could answer or provide a link to the names of these types of masses, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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It’s not properly called “Novus Ordo” but the “Ordinary Form” (OF) of the Mass. You may also hear it called “Novus Ordo” though for some that’s seen as pejorative, and could be so based on context, and also Mass of Paul VI.

And it isn’t always celebrated facing the people. I have been to Ordinary Form Masses that were celebrated facing the altar (liturgical east).

The pre-Vatican II Mass is now referred to as the “Extraordinary Form” (EF) though you will continue to hear the terms “Tridentine Mass”, “Traditional Latin Mass”, etc.

And it isn’t always celebrated facing the altar either, in some places, liturgical east happens to be facing the people, St. Peter’s in the Vatican being one. But in most places liturgical east happens to be facing the altar.
 
OraLabora said:
And it isn’t always celebrated facing the altar either, in some places, liturgical east happens to be facing the people, St. Peter’s in the Vatican being one. But in most places liturgical east happens to be facing the altar.
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Well, the priest is always “facing the altar.” The difference is that in most cases the altar is by the back wall (meaning he must face away from the people), while in some cases it is between the priest and the people (meaning that when he faces the altar he is also facing the people).
 
codefro said:
So I know a lot of people in this forum prefer the Tridentine Latin Mass. I am not familiar with all the names of the different types of masses. The current post-Vatican II mass is called the Novus Ordo? What is the proper name for it (the mass where the priest faces the congregation during the consecration). Also, is there a name for a mass where it is more traditional (where the priest turns his back to the congregants and consecrates the elements) but says the mass in English, not in latin? If someone could answer or provide a link to the names of these types of masses, I would appreciate it. Thanks.
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Novus Ordo was the Latin term meaning ‘New Order’ of the Mass. It was not intended to be a new Mass, but a new order of worship in the same Mass. Most people just called it the New Mass anyway.

Today it is called the Ordinary Form, it is normative.

The Mass of the 1962 rubrics (the last standard before the big changes) is called the Extra-Ordinary Form. That would have been the last revision of the Tridentine (from Trent) type of Mass. Extra-Ordinary form should (as far as I can tell) be the same term regardless of what language is used, considering the rubrics would be the same, but I am pretty sure it is only served in Latin within the Roman Catholic church of today.

The Roman Catholic church in some diocess had the right to have Mass in Slavonic until recent times, as far as I know it was the only permitted variation to the ‘old’ or Tridentine Mass in terms of language within the Roman Catholic church.

The Polish National Catholic church did a Polish translation of the 1864 or 1884 Missal, and have used it. Today they use an English translation as well as Polish. I think it would be fair to call that the Tridentine Mass, but it is not derived from the 1962 Missal and the term ‘Extra-Ordinary form’ would not make sense in that context, since for them it would be normative.
 
So a group, for example the FSSP, would celebrate the Pauline Mass? Or is that the traditional Latin Mass? What is the difference between the Pauline Mass or the Traditional Latin Mass. So is there no difference in title when a priest turns his back to the congregation or faces the congregation? I would be interested to look up a local church where the priest prefers to turn away from the congregation, but I don’t know how I would look that up.
 
codefro said:
So a group, for example the FSSP, would celebrate the Pauline Mass? Or is that the traditional Latin Mass? What is the difference between the Pauline Mass or the Traditional Latin Mass. So is there no difference in title when a priest turns his back to the congregation or faces the congregation? I would be interested to look up a local church where the priest prefers to turn away from the congregation, but I don’t know how I would look that up.
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The FSSP celebrates the Traditional Latin Mass (EF).
 
MarkThompson’s post shows the various names for the two current usages of the Latin rite Mass. If you are asking a parish, ask if they celebrate the “extraordinary form” of the Mass. That will usually have the priest facing the same direction as the people and be in Latin. If you are looking at a diocesean/parish webiste, look for the terms TLM, Extraodinary Form, or Latin Mass.

Here’s an example from a local parish:
Sunday Masses
5:30 pm Saturday Vigil Mass
7:30 am
8:45 am
10:30 am (Latin)
12:30 pm
Daily Masses
Mon - Wed - Fri - Sat 8:45 am
Tue - Thur 6:30 am
Thursday (Rosary,Novena Prayers & Benediction) 6:30 pm
Thursday (Novus Ordo Latin Mass) 7:00 pm
First Friday (Norvus Ordo) 7:00 pm
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The 10:30 Sunday Mass is an Extraordinary Form (TLM) Mass. The Thursday evening Mass is an Ordinary Form (Norvus Ordo) Mass that is said in Latin.
 
So if it just says Extraordinary Form, but doesn’t say Latin, then this mass is in english?
 
If it is an Extraordinary Form Mass, it should be in Latin using the 1962 Missal. This is the form of Mass that is sometimes called the TLM or Traditional Latin Mass.
 
I guess my question is how do I find an Extraordinary Form that is in English?
 
When the priest celebrates Mass facing liturgical East, this is known as ad orientem.
When the priest celebrates Mass facing the people, this is known as versus populum.

As the missal contains instructions for both orientations, it is possible to celebrate the EF or the OF in each way. However, the vast majority of EF will be ad orientem, and the vast majority of OF are done versus populum.

In fact, I can guarantee that you will not find an EF celebrated versus populum, it’s simply unheard of. It may be that a particularly traditional-minded priest wants to celebrate the OF ad orientem. In these cases, you can probably expect it to be in Latin as well, and with various trappings such as incense and chanted propers. Ad orientem is not particularly an a la carte option, although by the instructions in the missal, it certainly could be!

Another way to find ad orientem liturgy is to seek out the Byzantine Rite. Preferably you could find one of the Eastern Catholic Churches in communion with Rome, but in a pinch, you could visit an Eastern Orthodox church. These liturgies are frequently done in the vernacular, sometimes with a bit of the church’s native language - you might hear Greek, or Old Church Slavonic, or Russian. You can receive Holy Communion in an Eastern Catholic Church, and you can even make it your weekly home parish without formally switching allegiance.

There are several other Rites used by Eastern Catholic Churches, and I am sure you can find ad orientem in most of them. It is the ancient way of celebration.

I am not sure if the fathers of Vatican II envisioned that versus populum would be so widespread when they added it as an option to the missal. But in the intervening years since the Council, the majority spoke and it became so. Thankfully in this day and age, there are still some of us who prefer the priest to turn toward the East along with the rest of us when offering the sacrifice.
 
codefro said:
I guess my question is how do I find an Extraordinary Form that is in English?
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There most likely isn’t one. The EF must be in Latin. I understand there is one location that was allowed to do that Mass in the vernacular, but it wasn’t in an English speaking country.
 
tradcathconvert said:
There most likely isn’t one. The EF must be in Latin. I understand there is one location that was allowed to do that Mass in the vernacular, but it wasn’t in an English speaking country.
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The Anglican use isn’t unlike an English EF, though it’s not quite the same.
 
Hesychios said:
Novus Ordo was the Latin term meaning ‘New Order’ of the Mass. It was not intended to be a new Mass, but a new order of worship in the same Mass. Most people just called it the New Mass anyway.

Today it is called the Ordinary Form, it is normative.
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Back in the day, circa 1971, when the Novus Ordo was first promulgated, the title page of the revised missals said “New Order of Mass.”

They had these groovy dancing figures on them.

The missals did not last long, and were out of common circulation within a few years, replaced by the paperback disposable “missalettes.”

Average Joes and Janes called it “New Mass” as a short form, saving a few syllables. There was nothing pejorative about the term.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the New Order of Mass was, in fact, “new.” It was no more pejorative than saying “Father is wearing a rainbow colored stole,” which at the time, he was likely to have been doing.

Cheers!
 
Warrenton said:
At the risk of stating the obvious, the New Order of Mass was, in fact, “new.” It was no more pejorative than saying “Father is wearing a rainbow colored stole,” which at the time, he was likely to have been doing.
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Why would a priest have done that? Sounds more Episcopalian than anything.
 
codefro said:
So Anglican Ordinariates may have mass that are more like the EF?
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The Ordinariate in the US is soon to be established. Others in Canada and Australia will probably be following sometime in the near future.

There is a committee at this time formatting the liturgy for the Ordinariate. It is very complicated as there are many different liturgies within the Anglican Communion and every country has more than one.

Hopefully it will based on some of the BDW and one of the Missals, which are very similar to the EF, including the Anglican prayers that are in line with the Catholic faith.

Everyone who is joining the Ordinariate are discussing their personal views on what the liturgy should be and there are many different opinions. Mine is closer to one of the Anglican Missals used in Anglo Catholic parishes. The liturgy included the prayers at the foot of the altar and the Last Gospel of John at the end of Mass.

It is just wait and see what Rome (CDF) and hopefully Pope Benedict decides.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
 
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