Different Way of Reading Revelation

[patrick457]

Hi, I’m back for the moment. Managed to get some free time off. Hi again folks.

One thing that always strikes me when people talk about Revelation is that they always speak of it in the context of end-times predictions. Revelation is almost always read and interpreted more as an exact blueprint of what will soon happen - a lot of time and energy had been devoted into trying to decode all of the symbolic imagery and all the whens and the hows. That’s all well and good, but I think that in focusing too much on the fire and brimstone and the many-headed beasts we’re losing track of something that made Revelation so relevant for its original audiences.

Apocalyptic literature (of which Revelation is one) flourished as a literary genre in post-exilic Jewish culture. Works belonging to the genre are usually presented as visions of future events and the end times (usually veiled under symbolic images and language) revealed - hence apokalypsis, an “unveiling” - to the author or seer by a heavenly messenger. One of the aims of the genre as a whole is to address the seeming disparity between the idea of reward for righteousness and the fact that many righteous people in the world suffer. (An issue with close relevance for Jews of the period: why did and do they suffer repeated trials and tribulations if they were indeed God’s own chosen nation?) One of the underlying messages of such literature is that even though things may seem bad now, one should not give in to despair - because all history is under God’s hands. Just hold on tight; God will take care of matters in their due course.

In other words, I think one good alternative way of reading Revelation aside from just seeing it as predictions for the future (I’m sure there are other good alternative ways - that’s the beauty of it, ain’t it not?) is to see it as a message of patience and hope - hope for better things to come. The letters to the seven churches and the last words of the book I think make this clear, if you’ll read them carefully.

And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of tthe first and the last, who died and came to life.

“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

…]

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

 

[RPRPsych]

Hi, I’m back for the moment. Managed to get some free time off. Hi again folks.

Yay!

In other words, I think one good alternative way of reading Revelation aside from just seeing it as predictions for the future (I’m sure there are other good alternative ways - that’s the beauty of it, ain’t it not?) is to see it as a message of patience and hope - hope for better things to come.

Absolutely. I can’t agree with this too strongly.

 

[rcwitness]

(I’m sure there are other good alternative ways - that’s the beauty of it, ain’t it not?)

It sure isn’t not so…

A GREAT book on Revelation is Coming Soon by Michael Barber. He even has a video on youtube speaking about it.

It truly is a look at things from heavens perspective put into earthly symbols.

The relation this prophecy has to Daniel and Ezekiel and others is huge. Barber explains the importance of Revelations being at the end of the Bible. Everything else before it must be understood!

Michael

 

[CalCatholic]

Hi, I’m back for the moment. Managed to get some free time off. Hi again folks.

One thing that always strikes me when people talk about Revelation is that they always speak of it in the context of end-times predictions. Revelation is almost always read and interpreted more as an exact blueprint of what will soon happen - a lot of time and energy had been devoted into trying to decode all of the symbolic imagery and all the whens and the hows. That’s all well and good, but I think that in focusing too much on the fire and brimstone and the many-headed beasts we’re losing track of something that made Revelation so relevant for its original audiences.

Apocalyptic literature (of which Revelation is one) flourished as a literary genre in post-exilic Jewish culture. Works belonging to the genre are usually presented as visions of future events and the end times (usually veiled under symbolic images and language) revealed - hence apokalypsis, an “unveiling” - to the author or seer by a heavenly messenger. One of the aims of the genre as a whole is to address the seeming disparity between the idea of reward for righteousness and the fact that many righteous people in the world suffer. (An issue with close relevance for Jews of the period: why did and do they suffer repeated trials and tribulations if they were indeed God’s own chosen nation?) One of the underlying messages of such literature is that even though things may seem bad now, one should not give in to despair - because all history is under God’s hands. Just hold on tight; God will take care of matters in their due course.

In other words, I think one good alternative way of reading Revelation aside from just seeing it as predictions for the future (I’m sure there are other good alternative ways - that’s the beauty of it, ain’t it not?) is to see it as a message of patience and hope - hope for better things to come. The letters to the seven churches and the last words of the book I think make this clear, if you’ll read them carefully.

And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of tthe first and the last, who died and came to life.

“‘I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich) and the slander of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’

…]

“Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

 

[patrick457]

You know the funny thing about it? This idea struck me when I was reading about Charles Manson’s - yes, that Charles Manson - attempt to intepret Beatles songs and some verses of Revelation as prophesying some sort of apocalyptic race war, the ‘Helter Skelter’. Very weird stuff.

All we seem to do nowadays is to read Revelation just as some sort of manual for what will occur (or more correctly, what we like to think will occur) in the future. I mean there’s a cottage industry along those lines.

 

[patrick457]

It sure isn’t not so…

A GREAT book on Revelation is Coming Soon by Michael Barber. He even has a video on youtube speaking about it.

It truly is a look at things from heavens perspective put into earthly symbols.

The relation this prophecy has to Daniel and Ezekiel and others is huge. Barber explains the importance of Revelations being at the end of the Bible. Everything else before it must be understood!

Michael

Hmm, gotta wait for that.

The apocalyptic genre kickstarted really with Ezekiel, Zechariah, Isaiah, and Daniel (the first full-blown example of biblical apocalyptic). It’s not just Revelation; most works belonging to the genre are (obviously) influenced to some degree by these books.

More specifically, Revelation is chock-full of references to most of the Old Testament (many so subtle it’s easy to miss*), especially to Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah and the Psalms (which makes up more than half the references) - in fact it has the most OT references compared to any other NT book. Revelation also uses Genesis (the dissolution of the created order; the new Jerusalem being the eschatological fulfillment of Eden) and Exodus (the plagues, the overarching theme of freedom from oppression) as foundations. So yes, I think one is doing a disservice to oneself if one doesn’t have the background knowledge necessary to make sense of the symbolism.

• The way John writes, he’ll often use only a single word or phrase from his OT source that some claim that there are times when a single sentence in Revelation might contain as many as four OT allusions.

 

[RPRPsych]

All we seem to do nowadays is to read Revelation just as some sort of manual for what will occur (or more correctly, what we like to think will occur) in the future. I mean there’s a cottage industry along those lines.

True.

The book of Revelation has, in modern times, fuelled more bad theology or false prophecy than any heretical movement in history. That is a sad commentary on us, not St. John.

 

[CalCatholic]

The Navarre Bible in its commentary on the Book of Revelation lays out the four main ways that the Book of Revelation has been interpreted over the centuries and chooses this as the one that they use in their commentary:

’The Apocalypse is a theological vision of the entire panorama of history, a vision which underlines its transcendental and religious dimension. According to this interpretation (favored by most of the Fathers of the Church) St John is describing the situation of the Church in his own time and he is also surveying the panorama of the last times; but for him these last times have already begun: they began with the entry into the world of Jesus Christ, the Son of God made man. This idea is very much in line with the Fourth Gospel, which also conceives the last era of the world, and eternal life, as having already in some way begun and as developing towards ultimate and total fullness. It provides a special perspective on events in history and is involved with expectation of final victory. The book does depict the cosmic struggle between good and evil, but it takes for granted Christ’s ultimate triumph. This is, in our view, the most valid interpretation of the book and therefore it is the one we follow in the commentary provided.'

 

[rcwitness]

Hmm, gotta wait for that.

The name of the book is “Coming Soon”

m.youtube.com/watch?v=NNypSpAMDnI

Thats Michael Barber talking some on Revelations

Peace
Michael

 

[Oldtimer_7]

The last time we studied Revelation we looked at it as a communication to a persecuted group of churches. The book had to be written in veiled language because it otherwise would have been destroyed. The Whore of Babylon was code for the Roman Empire. Its goal was to keep the persecuted communities together and encourage them.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

I tend to think that most of what it predicts already happened at the time of its writing except for what is contained in the last few chapters. And I would also say that there is a lot less to the foreboding and fantastic imagery than people think.

The Christians were not safe at the time of its writing, so John’s book of Revelation(which critiques the Emperor) needed to be encoded. All the 7 churches mentioned were along the same Roman road, as they were the original recipients. (I think the road started opposite of Patmos on the mainland shore if I remember) I also think this was the reason all the other major apostolic sees were not mentioned. The other apostolic sees already had shepherds guiding them. John is connected with Ephesus and I think some of the others. The thing that stands out most in my mind is that Chapter 12 comes and we are finally at the birth of the Church! So to me, it is more about Christian history except for the end.

 

[patrick457]

The last time we studied Revelation we looked at it as a communication to a persecuted group of churches. The book had to be written in veiled language because it otherwise would have been destroyed. The Whore of Babylon was code for the Roman Empire. Its goal was to keep the persecuted communities together and encourage them.

To look at the bigger picture, veiled symbolism is a common element - a cliche, I could say - among the so-called apocalyptic literature. The conceit is that while the works reveal the divine plan - i.e. what is to come - to the chosen ones (to give them encouragement and for them to be able to prepare for when that day comes), they are written in coded language to conceal them from the ungodly. You’d notice that Daniel, Zechariah and Ezekiel - other biblical examples of the apocalyptic we have - also use symbolic language.

 

[patrick457]

Just to give a background on a related subject: Jewish apocalypticism.

Apocalypticism is this ideology, theology or worldview that flourished in post-Exilic Judaism. Its core tenet is that we are living in an age dominated by Evil (which isn’t just some abstract problem within the human heart or in society, but a cosmic force much larger than humans - be it rebellious, fallen angels and/or sin and death personified - yet ultimately still inferior to God), that there is a constant struggle between these evil forces and the forces of good. Humans are caught in this struggle and take sides in this cosmic war as either the righteous or the wicked.

Currently, Evil seems to have the upper hand (which would explain things such as why the good and the innocent suffer), but all hope is not lost, because God will intervene in a cataclysmic way and the final massive battle between good and evil will end with the triumph of good over evil. A certain important figure (or figures) sent by God - such as an anointed priest or prophet or king or warrior or all of the above - will play a key role in this final triumph. At the wake of God’s triumph, He or His anointed messenger will separate the righteous from the wicked (a resurrection of the dead may also occur); the righteous will eternally enjoy the benefits of God’s new creation or kingdom or paradisical world in the “age to come,” while the wicked and the defeated forces of evil led by Satan (or Belial or the Angel of Darkness or Beelzebub or some other name for this figure) will either be obliterated or tortured forever and ever.

Not all Jews at that time subscribed to apocalypticism, of course (it seems that it wasn’t even an integral part of ‘mainstream’ Judaism), but early Christians like St. Paul and (most likely) Jesus Himself did, which would explain the huge influence it had in Christian theology. (If you’ll read the summary above, you’ll notice that it’s almost exactly the same to the Christian worldview.) By contrast, Rabbinic Judaism handled apocalypticism differently than Christianity had (for which apocalypticism became key). I think the most obvious difference here is in how Christians and Jews see Satan: I think most Christians (taking a page from Jewish apocalyptic worldview) would agree that Satan is an angel who rebelled against God, the ‘Evil One’ who tempts man to sin and who is in some way “the ruler of this world” (John 12:31) - though of course ultimately inferior to God. In Rabbinic Jewish thought, however (where apocalypticism did not play much of an active role than it did in Christianity), ‘Satan’ is a less-clear cut figure: he either is simply the ‘accusing angel’ in the heavenly court (cf. Job 1) or even a mere symbolic description of the yetzer hara (‘evil inclination’), man’s innate capacity to do evil - which Rabbinic Judaism blames as the root cause of the evil that exists around us (as opposed to the Christian idea of a sentient being who tempts people to sin).

It’s often said that Jewish Apocalypticism as an idea grew out of and was influenced by different elements. For example the idea of the struggle between good and evil (i.e. God vs. Satan) being pictured as a battle grew out of the Mesopotamian and Ancient Near Eastern ‘combat myth,’ where a certain god fights and kills an evil god or a monster personifying chaos that threatens to plunge the world into disorder (e.g. Marduk vs. Tiamat, Baal vs. Yam). You already have the Israelite version of the ‘combat myth’ in the older parts of the Bible: remember Yhwh’s defeat of a primordial monster, usually named Leviathan/Rahab/Yam? (Psalm 74:12-17; 89:5-18; Isaiah 51:9-11) Some would even assert that Israelite thought might have also been influenced by Zoroastrianism (specifically, the idea of the ongoing conflict between the good god Ahura Mazda and the evil Angra Mainyu) during the Exile.

A third influence would be the Israelite (and Judahite) prophets themselves. The writings of the prophets usually struggle to explain the ol’ theodicy question: why did a good God allow terrible things to happen to His chosen people? To which the solution they arrived to was that, God has future plans for His people and that these plans are revealed to them by His prophets. In the process of communicating what God tells them to tell the people, many prophets look forward to “that day,” namely, the day when Israel would be freed from foreign domination and restored to its united glory. This idea of liberation would later increasingly become more universal in scope: it’s no longer just liberation from a foreign power and the restoration of the kingdom of Israel, but liberation from Evil itself (which may be controlling the foreign power in question) and a renewal/restoration of Israel and the world as it should be.

 

[patrick457]

Here’s a brief summary of what ‘apocalyptic literature’ is. Sorry if its gets quite long again; old habits die hard. (I should just add that we need to distinguish between ‘apocalypse/apocalyptic literature’ as a literary genre and ‘apocalypticism’ as a social and ideological phenomenon - the one I pretty much talked about in the last post.)

Apocalyptic literature is a type of literature common in Judaism around the 2nd century BC to the 2nd century AD. As per an author named John Collins: “Apocalypse is a genre of revelatory literature with a narrative framework, in which a revelation is mediated by an otherworldly being to a human recipient, disclosing a transcendent reality which is both temporal, insofar as it envisages eschatological salvation, and spatial, insofar as it involves another supernatural world.” They also share a common purpose: as the author Adela Yarbro Collins puts it, “they interpret present, earthly circumstances in light of the supernatural world and of the future, and to influence both the understanding and the behavior of the audience by means of divine authority.”

Apocalyptic literature usually share a number of characteristics.

• First, they are usually (but not always) eschatological. in that they treat a future period of time when God will break into this world of time and space to bring the entire system into a final reckoning.*
• They can also be cosmic, having characters moving with ease between heaven, earth and hell, having (fallen) angels and earthly armies pitted against the powers of deity, and heavenly occurrences intersecting with and influencing earthly events.
• They are also dualistic, not so much in the metaphysical sense, but historically and temporally (two powers at war with each other - God and Satan or Belial, etc. or as Revelation would put it, “the kingdom of this world” vs. “the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ;” two ages - ‘this age’, controlled by Satan, and the ‘age to come’, ruled by God; two worlds - the visible universe and the perfect world that had existed since the beginning of time in heaven).
• They are rigidly deterministic, in other words they view history as moving forward according to a predetermined, definite schedule and toward a predetermined end, like a scripted play. While this could lend toward a pessimistic view of human history, the fact that the ending is known nevertheless bred confidence that God would ultimately emerge victorious.
• The mode of presentation is usually an ecstatic vision, dream or supernatural journey exprienced by the author (who in the Jewish works could be a famous figure from Israelite history: say Enoch or Moses). In Jewish apocalypses, for instance, there were two main variations: one is characterized by visions, with an interest in the development of history (the book of Daniel can be classified in this category), while the other is marked by otherworldly journeys with a stronger interest in cosmological speculation (the Book of the Watchers in 1 Enoch is one such example).
• Finally, they are also symbolic/allegorical, in that they use metaphoric images and events to point to something else.

Apocalyptic literature generally originates in periods of oppression or persecution, usually as a means to cope with these crises. Apocalypses divert the reader’s attention away from the problems of the present to the heavenly world and the eschatological future, thereby offering a means to cope with and to make meaningful present existence. (“As you can see, better days will come, so hold on tight.”) It is hortatory in that it seeks to persuade readers to embrace a particular point of view, usually one that critiques political power and its misuses. At the same time, while critiquing its present political or religious milieu, its focus is on a future world distinctly different from the present one with all its institutions of power and their deficiencies.

One thing to keep in mind is that apocalyptic literature is in ways different from classical Hebrew prophecy (even if, as I mentioned last, the apocalyptic arose from the prophetic - as some would say, apocalypticism was the child of prophecy and “prophecy in a new idiom” - and are close cousins). Prophecy carries with it a contingency, a ‘but if’ clause: the outcome depends upon the actions of the people. Let’s say that a disaster is about to strike Israel because of its sins; the prophet would say that if Israel repents, God will withhold His punishment, but if it continues in its evil ways, the disaster would hit Israel hard. It’s slightly different in apocalyptic works, however, where the idea is that a predetermined and unchangeable course has been mapped out for human history: for the author of an apocalypse, everything that is said to happen will happen because that is how God scripted it and because He allows them to happen - it will never change. Another point of difference is how they view the future: the prophetic future is a continuation of the present and is itself part of the course of history, but the apocalyptic future is a decisive break with the present age brought about by the direct intervention of God, so cataclysmic that history itself will end. It’ll be so awesome an intrusion that time will just break down and collapse.

• Take note though that ‘eschatology’ - the doctrine of end times - and ‘apocalypse’ - a revelation and a type of writing that discloses that revelation - are not the same. Apocalyptic literature could be used to communicate a body of knowledge that had nothing to do with end time concerns: for example the Shepherd of Hermas, which is an ‘apocalypse’ in the sense that it is presented as a heavenly revelation yet is not concerned with eschatology but with proper Christian living.

 

[patrick457]

True.

The book of Revelation has, in modern times, fuelled more bad theology or false prophecy than any heretical movement in history. That is a sad commentary on us, not St. John.

Christian, ca. AD 110: “Why is God letting us suffer like this?” (reads Revelation)

Christian, AD 2014: “What year will the End Times come?” (reads Revelation)

 

[Nelka]

The last time we studied Revelation we looked at it as a communication to a persecuted group of churches. The book had to be written in veiled language because it otherwise would have been destroyed. The Whore of Babylon was code for the Roman Empire. Its goal was to keep the persecuted communities together and encourage them.

I never believed this especially as Jerusalem is always called a whore in the Old Testament tells me that is the future of Jerusalem too when the antichrist is sat there.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

Nelka, interesting comment. I am trying to recall some OT that calls Jerusalem a whore. I am currently reading Jeremiah as part of my Lenten discipline, and he calls Jews whores for their pagan practices, which almost certainly involved sexual activities. Jerusalem is to be a haunt of jackals for a time, but it will be restored.

At the time of the writing of Revelation of John, it was not Jerusalem that had exiled the author to Patmos, nor was Jerusalem in any position to enslave the rest of the world. To have survived, the work would have had to have a present meaning to the people to whom it was addressed, and Rome is much the better candidate.

 

[UbiCaritas15]

People always get caught up in all the excitement of the end of the world, especially with the super fun rapture theology. The reality is, every human person is going to have his moment of “unveiling.” We are all going to fall asleep! In our lives we will be tempted by materialism, idolatry, often of self, have friends who can influence us poorly ANC be met with moments where might leave faith. End times are a reality of any life. Not just those super exciting tribulation ones.

 

[Nita]

The way I like to read Scripture (not just the Book of Revelation, but all of Scripture) is to ask myself, “What do I learn about God from this? What does it reveal about His thoughts; His heart; His desires, His ways;…” I like making Him the focus and goal of my mind and heart as I read.

 

[Nelka]

Revelation 8:1 The Lamb then broke the seventh seal, and there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.

Why silence for half an hour?