Difficult contraception question

[wanner47]

FTS -

If you haven’t already, I strongly recommend the following books:

Good News about Sex and Marriage by Christopher West - this is a MUST-HAVE for any Catholic couple. He explains the Church teachings about contraception, etc. beautifully.

The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Shiela Kipley. This book is used as the textbook in most NFP classes and it explains both NFP in detail as well as the reasons for using NFP as opposed to contraception.

Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler. This book is about the secular version of NFP, the Fertility Awareness Method (FAM). While it doesn’t say anything about the morality of contraception, it serves as an excellent resource for the charting portion of NFP.

If your wife doesn’t like the idea of keeping a paper chart, you can purchase charting software at tcoyf.com. I use this software and it’s excellent!! There are also online charting utilities such as FertilityFriend.com.


Life-Giving Love by Kimberly Hahn (wife of Scott Hahn). Beautiful book about how using NFP enhances the marital relationship and God’s plan for our married lives.

Good luck to you!!

 

[1ke]

No where in this document do I see where the OP is allowed to tell his wife to use female contraception and for that not to be sinful.

I was replying to your comment, which was that he was culpable unless she was contracepting without his knowledge. The document I posted clearly indicates that this is not so. He can have *knowledge *of her contacepting, he may not participate in her contracepting.

I did not at any time state that he should tell her to contracept.

And the OP has not stated that he is telling his wife to contracept.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

…
What I don’t understand is why she would use a condom (high, high failure rate) rather than learn NFP… .

Really, What are the actually numbers?

 

[1ke]

Really, What are the actually numbers?

The first number is perfect use (I highlighted that RED for both NFP and Condom). The second number is Actual Use. I highlighted that PURPLE.

1. Pearl Indices for Various Family Planning Methods
   Method Pearl Index -

‘Perfect Use’ Pearl Index - ‘Actual Use’

Pill 0.1-0.5* 3

Natural Family Planning (NFP) 0.3 2.8

Intra Uterine Device (IUD) 1.5 2

Male Condom 3 12

Female Condom 5 21

Diaphragm + Spermicide 6 18

Withdrawal 4 19

Spermicide Alone 6 21

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I am not sure what you are asking? I do think you and your wife are one, thus the culpability is shared. If she switches to another method now my guess is the culpability remains the same, this is because you already know the situation. I think you understand the churches teaching on this issue. Additionally my guess is the “she does not truly understand” defense is not legitimate either. Similarly I hope you understand your wife.

*BTW things you should know
Estimates of Catholics using NFP around 3-6%

Estimated use of NFP general population 1-2%

Failure rates on preventing pregnancy vary from person to person. This is because of the discipline of the person, the actives the person chooses, and the variation within the person’s body. So your error rate is not the same as your neighbors.

FYI - fda.gov/Fdac/features/1997/conceptbl.html*

Ultimately you and your wife have to work this out.

 

[1ke]

I do think you and your wife are one, thus the culpability is shared. If she switches to another method now my guess is the culpability remains the same, this is because you already know the situation.

This may be what you think, but it is not what the church teaches on the matter. See the document link in previous post

*BTW things you should know
Estimates of Catholics using NFP around 3-6%

Estimated use of NFP general population 1-2%

Failure rates on preventing pregnancy vary from person to person. *

None of these are at all relevant to the fact that contraception is intrinsically disordered and grave matter. It is never allowed.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The first number is perfect use (I highlighted that RED for both NFP and Condom). The second number is Actual Use. I highlighted that PURPLE.

1. Pearl Indices for Various Family Planning Methods
   Method Pearl Index -

‘Perfect Use’ Pearl Index - ‘Actual Use’

Pill 0.1-0.5* 3

Natural Family Planning (NFP) 0.3 2.8

Intra Uterine Device (IUD) 1.5 2

Male Condom 3 12

Female Condom 5 21

Diaphragm + Spermicide 6 18

Withdrawal 4 19

Spermicide Alone 6 21

Thanks 1ke

Does NFP print explain the difference in the number they report verses the numbers other sources report? I notice the NFP print matches others on most lines except the NFP line. Here is a reference fda.gov/Fdac/features/1997/conceptbl.html

 

[Texas_Roofer]

This may be what you think, but it is not what the church teaches on the matter. See the document link in previous post

None of these are at all relevant to the fact that contraception is intrinsically disordered and grave matter. It is never allowed.

Please remember it is all the rules on all the Catholics. Btw did you hear now they use the word “serious” not “grave” if you know why please pass it over that is on my list of things to find out about.

 

[1ke]

Thanks 1ke

Does NFP print explain the difference in the number they report verses the numbers other sources report? I notice the NFP print matches others on most lines except the NFP line. Here is a reference fda.gov/Fdac/features/1997/conceptbl.html

Yes, absolutely.

Calendar rhythm and NFP are not the same thing, yet on the FDA website they are put together in one category, thereby completely negating the statistics.

Calendar rhythm does in fact have a failure rate approaching 25%.

NFP does not.

 

[1ke]

Please remember it is all the rules on all the Catholics.

Huh?

Btw did you hear now they use the word “serious” not “grave” if you know why please pass it over that is on my list of things to find out about.

No, they do not “now” use the word … as if there has been a change. This misrepresents the facts.

It is a matter of which term most accurately reflects the original Latin text.

 

[FTS]

I have posted my situation to the Apologetic forum, asking for any clarification they could give me in a private message, and I am awaiting their response.

I think some of you have mis-interpreted my situation, maybe due just reading bits and pieces of my posts. I myself want my wife and I to use NFP. I do not want to use contraception. Yet my wife does want to use contraception and doesn’t agree with Church teaching on the subject. I obviously cannot force her to engage in NFP. So I morally can either decide to continue relations so long as I am not the one doing the contraceptive act, or I could decide to refrain from relations until we could agree to use NFP. Of this I am not in question, I know this to be true and accurate Church teaching. I think some of you may be mistaken, but I am a faithful Catholic who wants to follow Church teaching in all matters. One of my major questions I need to find out, is if my wife is the one putting a male condom on me, does that me she is the one doing the contraceptive act making me not culpable, or does that not matter, either way since I am wearing the condom would I be considered the one using contraception and be culpable. It seems the overwhelming majority of people believe that I would still be considered the one using the contraception and be culpable, and if I become convinced in my search that this is the true Church teaching I would decide to not use male condoms. We both agree to to use the BC pill or the shot, or anything else that can be abortive. My wife has mis-givings about using any contraception besides male condoms. This may mean we will need to refrain until we can come to an agreement. If she decided to use something like female condoms plus spermicide, or a sponge, or some other method in which she is doing the contraceptive act, I would be morally allowed to engage in relations, so long as my wish to use NFP is made known and I try to convince her of Church teaching, which I do do. I would never try to tell her that using contraception is great, I have made it known that I disagree with contraception and want to use NFP. However, I find no problem with me simply telling her the facts, letting her know what things I am morally allowed to engage in and what I am not, in fact I think that clarification is helpful and necessary in the situation. Also, someone made a comment that seemed to doubt my statement that she may not be morally culpable for using contraception since she truly doesn’t understand/agree with Church teaching on the matter. I just say this, be careful to judge as only she and God truly knows that answer. Invisible ignorance does exist and can lessen the severity of sin, if it is really truly present. Of course, if someone through there own fault makes not attempt to understand or discover truth about issues, they may be at fault and be morally culpable. It may help to better understand the situation that she was raised Catholic for a bit, then mostly Protestant, and now have come back to the Church. So she doesn’t have the proper upbringing and understanding of all Church teaching that someone else may have. I think she is open to understanding and it is a work in progress, I am trying to help her see the truth of the Catholic Church’s teaching on contraception and NFP. I would be overjoyed if she could come to this understanding, and I ask for your prayers in this difficult situation. We are a young married couple who love each other very much and get along greatly, and are totally committed to one another, but as I’ve said this is a difficult situation right now. She is certainly a faithful and religious woman of God, but she does not yet agree with Church teaching on contraception. And as I said previously, if she did come to belief in the teaching of the Church but still wasn’t ready to use NFP and wanted to use contraception in that case I would for sure choose to refrain from relations, because there would be no possibility of invisible ignorance and I would be leading her to sin, which as a faithful husband I never want to do. As Father Corapi says, to truly love someone you want what is best for them, to help lead them to Heaven. Sorry for the lengthy posts and explanations. I do realize talking to different priests would be very helpful for insight. And just to clarify, I am a faithful Catholic who believes in all Church teaching, and I am trying to know what is right and morally permissible, and to do only that.

 

[1ke]

FTS,

You are a fine example of a loving husband who is patiently working to bring his wife into the Truth. I admire your loving example.

Continue to pray and educate, and she will figure it out. Off the subject of the orginal post, but why is it that she rejects NFP and embraces contraception? What is her reasoning that contraception is not wrong? What does she say when shown the Church’s teaching? Maybe we can give you suggestions related to helping her see the truth.

I was a convert from Protestantism, and I too originally saw no problem with contraception. Fortunately, I was not yet married so it was only a theoretical issue, not an actual one.