Difficult decision about employee

  • Thread starter Thread starter tmw
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tmw

Guest
I have an employee who frequently smells of alcohol. Several inquiries of wheather or not he had any problems he needed help with were always answered with a No. Yesterday he smelled of alcohol, he was confronted and denied that he’d been drinking. Then he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years and is currently on a performance improvement plan, which is not relevant, other than if he were a model employee, I may be more inclined to make an exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help. Regardless of firing or retaining this employee I intend to get him professional help.

I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
 
40.png
tmw:
I have an employee who frequently smells of alcohol. Several inquiries of wheather or not he had any problems he needed help with were always answered with a No. Yesterday he smelled of alcohol, he was confronted and denied that he’d been drinking. Then he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years and is currently on a performance improvement plan, which is not relevant, other than if he were a model employee, I may be more inclined to make an exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help. Regardless of firing or retaining this employee I intend to get him professional help.

I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
Click to expand...
It is not immoral to fire the employee, although I would sooner try the approach you mentioned, and make the exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help.

Try asking this in the “ask an apologist” Forum!
 
This guys sounds like he’s in denial about his problem and will likely refuse help, but it’s worth a shot. In the meantime, he has violated company policy in such a manner that is grounds for termination. There is nothing immoral about enforcing accountability for one’s behavior and ensuring a fair, equitable, and safe work environment for everyone else.
 
Many alcoholics will not admit that they have a problem until they encounter strong negative consequences for their behavior. Perhaps being fired is just the kind of negative consequence that the employee needs.
 
Without knowing more about it, I don’t think it is immoral.

That said, I am glad to see an employer who actually cares about his people – even those you do not find the “best” ones. If you think you can teach him something and the company (authority-wise and financially) will allow it, then I totally applaud you for wanting to help this guy.

The problem is, “help” that is readily available for this sort of problem is hit-and-miss. One never knows, then, what “help” a person needs unless you are personally involved with them.

Is there any sort of problem with other employees? Does this one create headaches for the other ones in addition to being a poor performer?

I wish I could help you. I lost my job in a terrible way, having been so thoroughly messed around by certain individuals (not my boss) in the company I would have sued if I’d have a chance of winning. In my case it was due to mental illness, not substance abuse.

Alan
 
I just went through this very thing not 4 months ago, I spoke to my pastor about it.

He said as long as this person has had the oppurtunity to reform previously, and you are not leaping at the chance to cut them loose, then nothing it immoral.

Sounds like you have confronted this person already, and intend to offer counseling on the company’s tab, then it sounds to me like you have met your moral obligation.

Also consider your obligations to your co-workers who have had to work with an intoxicated employee. In my case there was a real risk of physical harm involved, in addition to an increased work load because othrs had to pick up the slack of an impaired co-worker. There is also the innocents on the road as this intoxicated person drives to and from work that need to be considered.

Good luck, and may God give you the strength in this time. I know how it can feel, my stomach was in knots when I had to do this leading up to Christmas. It wasa terrible time of the year, I knew my employee may loose their house, I am sure it effected Christmas, etc.

But it is for the greater good of al involved, even if your employee doesn’t accept help now, he or she may in the future on thier own.

God Bless.
 
You didn’t state where you are in the food chain, but you could be jeapordizing your own job by not terminating this employee. Suppose he gets hurt on the job or causes someone else to get hurt because of his intoxication. Then it comes back to you for allowing it to continue after you found out about it.

Until he admits he has a problem and is willing to accept help, there is nothing you or anyone else can do about the problem except to stop enabling him. I didn’t stop drinking until, after a long downhill spiral, I got fired from the worst job I ever had 23 years ago. Keeping him on the payroll, which allows him to have a means to buy booze, may not be in his best interest, despite your obviously good intentions. Good luck, and my God guide your decision.
 
40.png
tmw:
I I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
Click to expand...
what is your company’s HRD policy? apply it to the letter including the proper means of testing and documentation, process for verbal and written warnings, and penalties applied including firing. Most companies have a mandatory counselling or treatment usually covered by the company health plan. Follow the procedures, document everything. You do him no favor by being lenient but become an enabler and a party to anything bad that happens on the job because of his condition. If your company has no formal procedure, consult your liability insurance provider for a risk management assessment and get a plan and procedure in place, and publish it to all employees. If he is drunk at work, and still drunk when he leaves, and it is proven you knew about it, you and the company are liable for any damage he causes.
 
In addition to the formal employee notifications outlined by PuzzleAnnie, there are also an escalating series of actions such as suspensions with pay, suspensions without pay, or a layoff without pay but with return rights subject to mandatory conditions such as AA participation, etc. He loses his ID card, his company credit card and phone calling card, and medical and gets put on severance/COBRA. Things less than full official permanent termination with public disgrace, but still getting the person off the property and off the books.

Another key issue is to make sure the person doesn’t have any grounds for either a lawsuit or for taking revenge or retaliation on the company or other employees.

You don’t say how large the company is, but maybe large enough and sophisticated enough to conduct breathalizer tests.

In a case like this, if the employee caused injury to himself or to others the company could be held liable and also endanger the jobs and lives of the rest of the company’s employees.

It would be worthwhile to get the head of Labor Relations (especially if there are union contract issues), Personnel / HR, Security, and the company’s attorney together on a phone conference call or face-to-face to let them know and that action needs to be taken quickly before someone gets killed. It could be that serious.
 
40.png
tmw:
I have an employee who frequently smells of alcohol. Several inquiries of wheather or not he had any problems he needed help with were always answered with a No. Yesterday he smelled of alcohol, he was confronted and denied that he’d been drinking. Then he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years and is currently on a performance improvement plan, which is not relevant, other than if he were a model employee, I may be more inclined to make an exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help. Regardless of firing or retaining this employee I intend to get him professional help.

I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
Click to expand...
I think if it has been clearly explained that another violation of this policy WILL result in being fired. After offering assistance, then you must act as stated. Focus on the performance improvement progress, not the alcohol problem after a final warning.
 
40.png
tmw:
I have an employee who frequently smells of alcohol. Several inquiries of wheather or not he had any problems he needed help with were always answered with a No. Yesterday he smelled of alcohol, he was confronted and denied that he’d been drinking. Then he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years and is currently on a performance improvement plan, which is not relevant, other than if he were a model employee, I may be more inclined to make an exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help. Regardless of firing or retaining this employee I intend to get him professional help.

I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
Click to expand...
It is not immoral to fire him for violating company policy. He is a hazard to himself, his fellow employees, and your company. He had opportunity to get help and has not done so.

I would fire him.
 
offer him the choice of drug rehab, followed by AA or being fired or he could resign.

His choice.
 
There are two separate issues here. One: Are there legitimate grounds to fire the employee? Based on these statements, considered either together or individually…
40.png
tmw:
IThen he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years…
Click to expand...
…the answer to question one is, “Yes, there are grounds to fire him.”

The second issue is getting the employee help for his problem. I’m not sure the proper way for an employer to do this, so I’ll refrain from further comment.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Daniel Marsh:
offer him the choice of drug rehab, followed by AA or being fired or he could resign.

His choice.
Click to expand...
Sadly, offering him assistance could land you in legal trouble. Check with an attorney who can advise you of the laws in your state.

Whatever you do, check with a lawyer first and, document, document, document.
 
if a tree falls in the woods does it make a sound?

if a drunk shows up at work do they not collect a paycheck?

i digress…
 
40.png
geezerbob:
You didn’t state where you are in the food chain, but you could be jeapordizing your own job by not terminating this employee.
Click to expand...
Good point. It’s called failure to supervise. I would recommend bcoming real familiar with your company’s policy, follow it to the letter and document your efforts.

On a personal note, I would have no problem firing anyone who showed up to work after drinking and would probably take what steps I could to terminate such a one.
 
Jobwise, you don’t owe Hangover Harry anything. Cut him loose. No explainations. No emotion. No argument. No I’m sorries. It is your duty to your employees and your stockholders even if they do not see it at first. When you tell them that Harry might have attracted a lawsuit against them, everyone will change his mind.

I agree with the people that tell you that alcoholism is a disability and should be treated rather than punished. When the first mention of “rights” occurs, then I am off the hay wagon. Maybe he does have a right to his job. If so, then a chef with typhoid has a right to his too. I would also suppose that people in body casts have the right to sit next to a plane’s exit door. Again, maybe they do, but I’ll be damned if I let them enforce these rights.

So, what do you do about Harry the man? You write Harry an exhaustive critique of his job performance, the drinking and all of the complaints you got about him. Leave nothing out. Then stick it in an envelope and mail it to yourself. Let your mind rest while it is in transit. When you get the letter back, read it and then promptly run it down the shredder. You wrote this letter to purge your own negativity and frustration.

Now you write him a real letter. Tell him that you know he needs help and that you will do all that you can. Tell him that you liked and respected him – even if you didn’t. Sometimes a man will fight the very Devil to regain what he thinks he has lost. Don’t forget to include your home phone number.

Whater you do, never write or say anything about his work habits, drinking, character or any other negative traits. Not to him, not to anyone, not now, not ever. Never. Don’t even talk about work except to say, that you would hire him back when you are sure that he can handle the work.

Finally if he ever does use the number you gave him, be his cheerleader. If asks why you fired him, then tell him that it is policy never discuss personnel issues. (Do this even if you have to invent this policy the second before he finishes his question.) Do tell him that the policy applies to prospective employers too and that nobody, CEO to janitor, is allowed to bash him to a prospective employer. Tell him to make sure that you are on his list of character references.

Do no more and no lees. To do more would be to encourage his weaknesses. To do less would be to treat him with contempt and make him overly bitter. Bitterness does not sell too well in the job market.
 
40.png
richbansha:
Now you write him a real letter. Tell him that you know he needs help and that you will do all that you can.
Click to expand...
Before you write that letter, get legal advice. Saying he “needs help” may give him standing to claim discrimination. The logic goes like this: you are saying you know he is an alcoholic and therefore has a disease that can fall under the Americans with Disabilities Act. His firing would then become illegal discrimination leaving your company and you personally liable for violating his civil rights.

In any case, you should not have any personal contact with him. Keep it professional through buisness channels.
 
40.png
SemperJase:
In any case, you should not have any personal contact with him. Keep it professional through buisness channels.
Click to expand...
I agree. My favorite phrase is, “Your services are no longer required.” Simple, yet polite.
 
40.png
tmw:
I have an employee who frequently smells of alcohol. Several inquiries of wheather or not he had any problems he needed help with were always answered with a No. Yesterday he smelled of alcohol, he was confronted and denied that he’d been drinking. Then he agreed to have a blood test that confirmed he was legally drunk, with blood alcohol level of .155. This is against company policy, which states that he could be fired for violation. However, if he approached me or someone else for help, he could not be fired.

He has been a poor preformer for years and is currently on a performance improvement plan, which is not relevant, other than if he were a model employee, I may be more inclined to make an exception to policy under stingent conditions that he acknowledge his problem and get help. Regardless of firing or retaining this employee I intend to get him professional help.

I’m now faced with the decision of firing or not. Is it immoral to fire the employee for this violation?
Click to expand...
I don’t see any ethical problem here either. He knew the policies, and he refused to acknowledge at the earlier opportunity. He was given a chance to improve, but chose to do nothing. Out of respect to your other employees and your customers, it sounds like he needs to hit the road. Depending on the type of work he does, there might also be safety and liability concerns in keeping him on the payroll.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top