Difficult marriage situation

[Jasonrt85]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice about my difficult marriage situation? I’m feeling guilty about my marriage plan.

I’ll try to keep our story short. I met an amazingly faithful, sweet and loving Catholic woman. She helps bring me closer to God every day. We pray together and share our faith daily. I’m super blessed having her in my life. The only thing is that she lives in the Philippines! Never in my life did I expect to fall in love with someone so far away. But, I can’t help but believe that is was part of God’s Plan. BTW, I’m 31 and she’s 27.

After talking for hours every day for many, many months, I flew to the Philippines to see her. We went to church to pray together often and at the end of my trip there after evening mass, I proposed to her at the Cathedral.

We are now waiting for the Government to approve her Fiance Visa. It could be anywhere from 2-5 months at this point.We always assumed that we would get married in the Catholic church where I live. But, we discovered some bad news.

First the US government requires that we get married within 90 days. While, the Catholic church requires that we take classes for 6 months before getting married. A deacon at my church said there were no exceptions.

Next, I never got confirmed when I was a teenager. Even though I went to all my classes. I’m in RCIA right now to become confirmed but, that’s 6 months away…

So, as you can see this puts us in a tough spot! We want to do things the right way and get married in the church but, it’s not looking good. The deacon recommended that she comes here, get a civil marriage but, live separately, and stay celibate for what could be up to a year after she’s here…

Unfortunately, this just seems super unrealistic to both of us for obvious reasons. Also, even if I wanted to, I can’t afford a house payment and a apartment (1300 a month for the cheapest here). I would also feel terrible to have her be alone after coming from a totally different culture and place.

So, what we are planning is to be married by a protestant pastor friend of mine after she gets here. Then after my confirmation, take the 6 months of classes and have our marriage convalidated by the church. It’s the only way we can figure out to do this…

It really sucks because we’d love to be married in the church and do things the right way… Also, is it true that even if we were married we’d be committing the sin of premarital sex because we both are Catholic and fall under Canon law?

Does anyone have any suggestions! I feel like a bad Catholic. Thanks!

 

[otjm]

If this relationship is actually meant to be, then you need to keep putting God first. And putting God first means you get into a Confirmation class, and then figure out how you are going to get through marriage prep.

You have the rest of your life to live; it would be better to start that process out with your future wife with God firmly in place. Getting married by a Protestant minister is a cop-out, putting being married any old which-way over what you need to do.

And yes, to answer your last question, you (and she) are bound by the requirements of the Church - which in short is to be married either before a priest or deacon as official witness, and if you are not, then you are not married in the eyes of the Church. Which to put it bluntly, means you are fornicating.

Note - I said a Confirmation class. I would think someone in your diocese could get that moved up more quickly than going through the RCIA process. That can be one route, but it is not the only one. And that could mean appealing to the bishop.

Don’t get caught up thinking with your hormones. Marriage is a life-long commitment. Don’t try to take shortcuts.

 

[Chatter163]

The deacon probably would also like to see you two get to know each other better. Despite your in-depth conversations, you two have really not spent that much time together. It would be prudent to do so before marrying, especially since, as you yourself point out, she is new to your culture and country. Getting married now is not advisable with such concerns that should be first worked out. Take some time, which will be well-spent.

 

[Jasonrt85]

otjm, Thanks for your candid response. I think I’d be saying the same thing to myself if I was looking from the outside.

I just want to be clear that it’s not about hormones or having to wait to be intimate. I am willing to wait as long as it takes. Because I’m marrying for love not sex.

 

[babochka]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice about my difficult marriage situation? I’m feeling guilty about my marriage plan.

I’ll try to keep our story short. I met an amazingly faithful, sweet and loving Catholic woman. She helps bring me closer to God every day. We pray together and share our faith daily. I’m super blessed having her in my life. The only thing is that she lives in the Philippines! Never in my life did I expect to fall in love with someone so far away. But, I can’t help but believe that is was part of God’s Plan. BTW, I’m 31 and she’s 27.

After talking for hours every day for many, many months, I flew to the Philippines to see her. We went to church to pray together often and at the end of my trip there after evening mass, I proposed to her at the Cathedral.

We are now waiting for the Government to approve her Fiance Visa. It could be anywhere from 2-5 months at this point.We always assumed that we would get married in the Catholic church where I live. But, we discovered some bad news.

First the US government requires that we get married within 90 days. While, the Catholic church requires that we take classes for 6 months before getting married. A deacon at my church said there were no exceptions.

Next, I never got confirmed when I was a teenager. Even though I went to all my classes. I’m in RCIA right now to become confirmed but, that’s 6 months away…

So, as you can see this puts us in a tough spot! We want to do things the right way and get married in the church but, it’s not looking good. The deacon recommended that she comes here, get a civil marriage but, live separately, and stay celibate for what could be up to a year after she’s here…

Unfortunately, this just seems super unrealistic to both of us for obvious reasons. Also, even if I wanted to, I can’t afford a house payment and a apartment (1300 a month for the cheapest here). I would also feel terrible to have her be alone after coming from a totally different culture and place.

So, what we are planning is to be married by a protestant pastor friend of mine after she gets here. Then after my confirmation, take the 6 months of classes and have our marriage convalidated by the church. It’s the only way we can figure out to do this…

It really sucks because we’d love to be married in the church and do things the right way… Also, is it true that even if we were married we’d be committing the sin of premarital sex because we both are Catholic and fall under Canon law?

Does anyone have any suggestions! I feel like a bad Catholic. Thanks!

I have friends who were in a similar situation, though without the added complication of needing Confirmation.

They were married in a civil ceremony to satisfy the requirements of the visa, but they did not live together as husband and wife until after the Church wedding. The wife lived, for a few months, with family friends who helped her become accustomed to life in America.

The classes required by the Church rarely take 6 months and you can certainly schedule them to begin as soon as she gets here. There is no need to wait for Confirmation before you begin preparing for marriage. The six-month time frame is from the date of your first meeting with the priest or deacon to the date of your wedding, and is given so that there is time to complete the classes, yes, but also time to make sure all of your paperwork is in order. Can that not be begun before she arrives? You can start by obtaining copies of your baptismal records. What options are available for completing the pre-marital preparation? In the local diocese, an online option is available for couples who don’t live in the same place (and others). Check with your diocese for possibilities. Mine lists the options for preparation and other requirements online.

Exceptions to the time-frame do happen, though maybe not in your parish. My husband and I were married in 4 1/2 months, even though there was a 6-month period in place. We had no particular reason, we just came to the meeting with all our paperwork in order, pre-marital prep already scheduled to begin, and suggested a wedding date. Did you speak to the deacon about your specific circumstances? Is this at your own geographic parish?

Having said that, waiting 6 months in your situation is a very good idea. Spending hours each day talking on the phone is not the same thing as spending time in person and you need to get comfortable with this aspect of being together before you get married.

Basically, though, your plan is a bad one. Start your marriage off right. There are ways to do the right thing and you should search them out, rather than find a way around it.

 

[Catholic1954]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice about my difficult marriage situation? I’m feeling guilty about my marriage plan.

I’ll try to keep our story short. I met an amazingly faithful, sweet and loving Catholic woman. She helps bring me closer to God every day. We pray together and share our faith daily. I’m super blessed having her in my life. The only thing is that she lives in the Philippines! Never in my life did I expect to fall in love with someone so far away. But, I can’t help but believe that is was part of God’s Plan. BTW, I’m 31 and she’s 27.

After talking for hours every day for many, many months, I flew to the Philippines to see her. We went to church to pray together often and at the end of my trip there after evening mass, I proposed to her at the Cathedral.

We are now waiting for the Government to approve her Fiance Visa. It could be anywhere from 2-5 months at this point.We always assumed that we would get married in the Catholic church where I live. But, we discovered some bad news.

First the US government requires that we get married within 90 days. While, the Catholic church requires that we take classes for 6 months before getting married. A deacon at my church said there were no exceptions.

Next, I never got confirmed when I was a teenager. Even though I went to all my classes. I’m in RCIA right now to become confirmed but, that’s 6 months away…

So, as you can see this puts us in a tough spot! We want to do things the right way and get married in the church but, it’s not looking good. The deacon recommended that she comes here, get a civil marriage but, live separately, and stay celibate for what could be up to a year after she’s here…

Unfortunately, this just seems super unrealistic to both of us for obvious reasons. Also, even if I wanted to, I can’t afford a house payment and a apartment (1300 a month for the cheapest here). I would also feel terrible to have her be alone after coming from a totally different culture and place.

So, what we are planning is to be married by a protestant pastor friend of mine after she gets here. Then after my confirmation, take the 6 months of classes and have our marriage convalidated by the church. It’s the only way we can figure out to do this…

It really sucks because we’d love to be married in the church and do things the right way… Also, is it true that even if we were married we’d be committing the sin of premarital sex because we both are Catholic and fall under Canon law?

Does anyone have any suggestions! I feel like a bad Catholic. Thanks!

This is a really bad idea. If you are both practicing Catholics then you would be committing serious sin by not being married in the Church. You don’t say how long you have known each other, but things are always MUCH different when you are together; you need to spend more time than just a quick visit together to really get to know each other. Also, how well do you know her family? Does she have plans to eventually bring them to live in the US? If that is the case then you could be supporting some her family members along with your own. Waiting now may seen hard, but better that than to make some hasty, unchangeable decisions and be stuck with them for the rest of your life. The Deacon gave you good advice; have the civil wedding, live apart (she should be able to work in the US and contribute to her support), get confirmed and then marry properly in the Church. What do your parents think of the engagement?

 

[Jasonrt85]

Sometimes it’s hard to hear the truth! But, I really appreciate your replies.

I have to admit this situation has tested my faith in the church to some degree. It’s the first time I’ve encountered the legalistic nature of the church. Before, my main drive was because my heart is on fire for the Lord. But, lately it’s felt like following rules…

That being said, we both want to do what’s right even if it’s hard or we don’t understand. So appreciate the encouragement. Hopefully, I’ll be able to meet with the priest and see if he has any suggestions too.

 

[Tomdstone]

The rules about a six month wait before marriage in the USA are not the same in every country. Why not check up on the rules on the waiting period in the country where she lives.

 

[Jasonrt85]

This is a really bad idea. If you are both practicing Catholics then you would be committing serious sin by not being married in the Church. You don’t say how long you have known each other, but things are always MUCH different when you are together; you need to spend more time than just a quick visit together to really get to know each other. Also, how well do you know her family? Does she have plans to eventually bring them to live in the US? If that is the case then you could be supporting some her family members along with your own. Waiting now may seen hard, but better that than to make some hasty, unchangeable decisions and be stuck with them for the rest of your life. The Deacon gave you good advice; have the civil wedding, live apart (she should be able to work in the US and contribute to her support), get confirmed and then marry properly in the Church. What do your parents think of the engagement?

Thanks
Unfortunately, she isn’t super close to her parents because, they abandoned her when she was young… However, she still tries to have a meaningful relationship with them. I met most of her family and friends while I was there. They were all very supportive and kind! I’ve had a few conversations about here family and she told me that she doesn’t want to send money back to her family or expect me to support them. A lot of her family are college educated with decent jobs.

I know there are a lot of stereotypes about this type of relationship. I personally think our situation is a lot different.

 

[Jasonrt85]

The rules about a six month wait before marriage in the USA are not the same in every country. Why not check up on the rules on the waiting period in the country where she lives.

We asked and it would be 6 months there too. But, good idea.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

You do not need to be Confirmed to be married in the Catholic church. It is preferred, but not required. Also, not all churches have a 6 month waiting period. Some only 4 and this is not a “law” and can be waived. Check around…

congratulations!

 

[Jasonrt85]

You do not need to be Confirmed to be married in the Catholic church. It is preferred, but not required. Also, not all churches have a 6 month waiting period. Some only 4 and this is not a “law” and can be waived. Check around…

congratulations!

Thanks!

 

[SyroMalankara]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice about my difficult marriage situation? I’m feeling guilty about my marriage plan.

I’ll try to keep our story short. I met an amazingly faithful, sweet and loving Catholic woman. She helps bring me closer to God every day. We pray together and share our faith daily. I’m super blessed having her in my life. The only thing is that she lives in the Philippines! Never in my life did I expect to fall in love with someone so far away. But, I can’t help but believe that is was part of God’s Plan. BTW, I’m 31 and she’s 27.

After talking for hours every day for many, many months, I flew to the Philippines to see her. We went to church to pray together often and at the end of my trip there after evening mass, I proposed to her at the Cathedral.

We are now waiting for the Government to approve her Fiance Visa. It could be anywhere from 2-5 months at this point.We always assumed that we would get married in the Catholic church where I live. But, we discovered some bad news.

First the US government requires that we get married within 90 days. While, the Catholic church requires that we take classes for 6 months before getting married. A deacon at my church said there were no exceptions.

Next, I never got confirmed when I was a teenager. Even though I went to all my classes. I’m in RCIA right now to become confirmed but, that’s 6 months away…

So, as you can see this puts us in a tough spot! We want to do things the right way and get married in the church but, it’s not looking good. The deacon recommended that she comes here, get a civil marriage but, live separately, and stay celibate for what could be up to a year after she’s here…

Unfortunately, this just seems super unrealistic to both of us for obvious reasons. Also, even if I wanted to, I can’t afford a house payment and a apartment (1300 a month for the cheapest here). I would also feel terrible to have her be alone after coming from a totally different culture and place.

So, what we are planning is to be married by a protestant pastor friend of mine after she gets here. Then after my confirmation, take the 6 months of classes and have our marriage convalidated by the church. It’s the only way we can figure out to do this…

It really sucks because we’d love to be married in the church and do things the right way… Also, is it true that even if we were married we’d be committing the sin of premarital sex because we both are Catholic and fall under Canon law?

Does anyone have any suggestions! I feel like a bad Catholic. Thanks!

First, be very careful about such a long distance relationship. Have you visited and met your fiancee’s family, friends and people in her life enough to get a feel for them?

Second, the waiting period is common in the US, not everywhere. You might not need to wait at all in the Philippines, as long as the bishop ok’s everything. I’d recommend a pre-marriage meeting or class with the pastor at your fiancee’s church if you do this.

I would not recommend getting married with your protestant pastor friend, why bother? Might as well do a court license and get a church wedding properly. The government only cares about the court license.

 

[HelenRose]

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice about my difficult marriage situation? I’m feeling guilty about my marriage plan.

I’ll try to keep our story short. I met an amazingly faithful, sweet and loving Catholic woman. She helps bring me closer to God every day. We pray together and share our faith daily. I’m super blessed having her in my life. The only thing is that she lives in the Philippines! Never in my life did I expect to fall in love with someone so far away. But, I can’t help but believe that is was part of God’s Plan. BTW, I’m 31 and she’s 27.

After talking for hours every day for many, many months, I flew to the Philippines to see her. We went to church to pray together often and at the end of my trip there after evening mass, I proposed to her at the Cathedral.

We are now waiting for the Government to approve her Fiance Visa. It could be anywhere from 2-5 months at this point.We always assumed that we would get married in the Catholic church where I live. But, we discovered some bad news.

First the US government requires that we get married within 90 days. While, the Catholic church requires that we take classes for 6 months before getting married. A deacon at my church said there were no exceptions.

Next, I never got confirmed when I was a teenager. Even though I went to all my classes. I’m in RCIA right now to become confirmed but, that’s 6 months away…

So, as you can see this puts us in a tough spot! We want to do things the right way and get married in the church but, it’s not looking good. The deacon recommended that she comes here, get a civil marriage but, live separately, and stay celibate for what could be up to a year after she’s here…

Unfortunately, this just seems super unrealistic to both of us for obvious reasons. Also, even if I wanted to, I can’t afford a house payment and a apartment (1300 a month for the cheapest here). I would also feel terrible to have her be alone after coming from a totally different culture and place.

So, what we are planning is to be married by a protestant pastor friend of mine after she gets here. Then after my confirmation, take the 6 months of classes and have our marriage convalidated by the church. It’s the only way we can figure out to do this…

It really sucks because we’d love to be married in the church and do things the right way… Also, is it true that even if we were married we’d be committing the sin of premarital sex because we both are Catholic and fall under Canon law?

Does anyone have any suggestions! I feel like a bad Catholic. Thanks!

Marry her in a civil-court. Abstain from marital relations until you can be married in the Church. Simple as that.

 

[Jasonrt85]

If we were to get a civil marriage, abstain from intimate relations and get married in the church later, would it be a grave sin to still live together? It’s just not possible for financial and practical reasons for us to have separate living places.

Obviously we’d sleep in separate rooms. I know the church looks down on Co habitation but, isn’t that because they assume there is fornication going on?

 

[Tomdstone]

You do not need to be Confirmed to be married in the Catholic church. It is preferred, but not required. Also, not all churches have a 6 month waiting period. Some only 4 and this is not a “law” and can be waived. Check around…

Seems like a good suggestion.

 

[HelenRose]

If we were to get a civil marriage, abstain from intimate relations and get married in the church later, would it be a grave sin to still live together? It’s just not possible for financial and practical reasons for us to have separate living places.

Obviously we’d sleep in separate rooms. I know the church looks down on Co habitation but, isn’t that because they assume there is fornication going on?

The Church is not unreasonable. You do the best you can. Find a compassionate priest who will work with you.

 

[z_0101]

The deacon probably would also like to see you two get to know each other better. Despite your in-depth conversations, you two have really not spent that much time together. It would be prudent to do so before marrying, especially since, as you yourself point out, she is new to your culture and country. Getting married now is not advisable with such concerns that should be first worked out. Take some time, which will be well-spent.

Although I can’t comment on the Deacon’s motivation, I do agree with Chatter163 that it sounds like OP is really rushing things here and should take a step back to look at things - why else the post? Obviously, something here is bothering OP enough to ask the question and that alone should be enough to “raise the red flag.”

It doesn’t matter how long you have an internet relationship, the real life relationship will most likely be very different. You need more “one to one” time with this person, in real life, to really understand who it is you are wanting to marry. The civil marriage will only complicate what is already a very complicated situation.

IMHO if this is truly meant to be, then your future spouse will wait for you to go thru RCIA, participate in the pre-cana and then properly marry within the Church - without a civil marriage

Obviously we’d sleep in separate rooms. I know the church looks down on Co habitation but, isn’t that because they assume there is fornication going on?

Because it creates scandal and can lead others into either outright sin or places them in the positions of the near occasion of sin… even if it’s nothing more than gossip. This also places you and your spouse in the position of the near-occasion of sin, one weak moment, strong feeling already there…

Keep in mind that one form of the “Act of Contrition” that many people say during reconciliation mentions "… and to avoid the near occasion of sin … "

 

[otjm]

If we were to get a civil marriage, abstain from intimate relations and get married in the church later, would it be a grave sin to still live together? It’s just not possible for financial and practical reasons for us to have separate living places.

Obviously we’d sleep in separate rooms. I know the church looks down on Co habitation but, isn’t that because they assume there is fornication going on?

It is because the Church is aware that it is a very very rare set of individuals who can maintain abstinence.

The old phrase was a “near occasion to sin”.

“Play with fire, and you will be burned” has a lot of wisdom wrapped up in it.

I don’t know where you live; in my area there is a fairly significant population from the Philippines. What is the possibility she could live with one of them? There may be some single women who could make room for a roommate.

 

[otjm]

I have to admit this situation has tested my faith in the church to some degree. It’s the first time I’ve encountered the legalistic nature of the church. Before, my main drive was because my heart is on fire for the Lord. But, lately it’s felt like following rules…

This may seem harsh - but what the heck, I am 70, and seen more than at times I cared to.

Yes, it is legalistic. For a reason.

Let me put it this way: I had an epiphany many many years ago: I realized, much to my utter amazement, that the Church in 2,000 years had achieved much more wisdom than I had at an age close to yours.

The Church reflects on Scripture and has been doing so from the very beginning; and the Church is extremely aware of what it means to be human - including our inclination to sin, and our inclination to be less than totally self-honest. And most of that is our tendency to think “I…” in other words, we tend to think about what we want or don’t want; we are self-centered and cocksure that we know what is best.

And we don’t know what is best - at least to the extent that we can conform our acts to what is true. The Church teaches us what is true; but too often, we want our own way (“I” again).

There is a vast difference between being smart, and being wise. You are at the beginning of wisdom. It would do you - and her - well to look to the guide which Christ left us - the Church.

And I can guarantee that following the Church will not always be fun. But then, we were not promised “fun”, but rather, the means to eternal life.

Choose life.