Difficult Priest/monsignor

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threekidsmum

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I’ve been raised Catholic all my life, in college I chose to become more involved with my faith and became part of a wonderful church with an outstanding priest. He passion and approachability have been unsurpassed. Years later I married a man who was also Catholic, a match made in heaven right? WRONG!! Even with the premarital counseling, etc. he had everyone fooled! He was an abusive man, and while I took an oath to be together until death, after 7 years and two children later I made a decision out of the best interest (of the kids and myself) to divorce this man. I’m not sorry for my decision as I’ve seen my children flourish and thrive apart from that environment.

I’ve since met and married a wonderful man, he is not catholic however, so we did not get married in the catholic church. We have a little boy together, while my husband has no desire to become catholic, he has no problem with raising our son in the faith. My husband goes to mass with us, just doesn’t receive communion. Well I wanted to get our son baptized. Upon meeting with the Monsignor I walked out of his office questioning my choice of the catholic faith!! How sad is that?! He was awful, we are part of a parish that has over 6,000 members. My other two kids are in PRE and go to mass every Sunday. When I met with him regarding the baptism, all he said to me was “Well I don’t recognize you”….

Seriously, I’m in your mass every Sunday, I proceeded to tell him where I sit and that he doesn’t give me the eucharist as I am always on the other side of the aisle that he serves on. He crosses his arms and tells me that I don’t need to be intimidated by him, which I wasn’t.

In a nutshell he tells me that I have to have my marriage annulled through the church and I shouldn’t have been receiving the eucharist this whole time. Also he wouldn’t baptize our son until we got all of this “cleared” up.

Two things, based on what I understand babies are “exempt” from anything that they parents may do, therefore there is NO reason that he can’t get baptized. Second, so because I chose to leave a man who was abusive I can’t receive the eucharist until the church says it’s okay?! I needed their permission to leave? I was actually scolded by the monsignor because I took an oath…

His demeanor was just awful and pretentious, almost as if he was screening me to see if I was going to be “allowed” to become part of his church and to baptize my child. I hear weekly how the catholic religion wants to grow their numbers, etc. I can tell you that this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why. If it offended someone who is practicing and faithful, I can’t imagine how it would seem to those who are not catholic.

Can you offer some clarity as to where I should go from here? It seems that he just wanted to “fix” my current husband and I and also wanted money….ugh.
 
  1. Leaving you abusive husband wasn’t the problem. It was probably an obligation, in fact, to protect your children and yourself.
  2. You did not petition for an annullment of your first marriage. This means that you are still considered to be married to the man you civilly divorced. This is the first issue that needs to be cleared up. You can only have one spouse at at time.
  3. Even if (or after) you have a decree of nullity for your first marriage, as a Catholic you must follow the rules of the Church regarding marriage and that includes marrying in the Church. “In the Church” doesn’t always mean in the physical Catholic church building but it does mean getting married accoring to the Church’s rules and permissions. Marrying a non-Catholic is not an issue as long as he is free to marry. This is the second issue that needs to be cleared up.
  4. Even though you are in an invalid marriage and may actually still be married to your first husband, you have continued to receive Communion. This indicates, at first glance, that you many not have a good understanding of Church teaching. When you present a child for Baptism, you promise to bring him up in the Catholic faith. It is important that you learn about the faith in order to pass it on to your children.
  5. Sacraments cannot be refused but they can be delayed. As you indicated, he did not say he would not baptize your son, only that there were things that needed to be cleared up first.
  6. Even considering all of the above, this is no excuse for the priest to be rude to you. Please try to forgive him. Priests are human and have bad days like the rest of us. Ask him to walk you through the steps to regularize your marriage situation and prepare for your child’s Baptism. Once he sees you are ready and willing to do what it takes to get back into the faithful practice of your faith, you might be surprized how his attitude changes.
 
My dear friend - I understand your anger and I will put you in my prayers tonight, however you need to take a step back. Your Priest was giving you sound and faithful advice.
threekidsmum said:
I’ve been raised Catholic all my life …Years later I married a man who was also Catholic…He was an abusive man, and while I took an oath to be together until death, after 7 years and two children later I made a decision out of the best interest (of the kids and myself) to divorce this man.
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I am sorry you were treated so poorly. Your decision to leave for the sake of your family was just, however your civil divorce does not break the sacramental marriage bond. While the Church can support your decision to leave, you must also realize in the Church’s eyes you are still married.
threekidsmum said:
II’ve since met and married a wonderful man, he is not catholic however, so we did not get married in the catholic church. We have a little boy together, while my husband has no desire to become catholic, he has no problem with raising our son in the faith.

In a nutshell he tells me that I have to have my marriage annulled through the church and I shouldn’t have been receiving the eucharist this whole time. Also he wouldn’t baptize our son until we got all of this “cleared” up.
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He is correct. As a married woman (to your first husband) you are committing the sin of fornication with your second husband and as such you should not receive until you go to confession. Your long term solution to this is to try to have the first marriage annulled or to agree to live as brother and sister with your current husband.
threekidsmum said:
Two things, based on what I understand babies are “exempt” from anything that they parents may do, therefore there is NO reason that he can’t get baptized.
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While babies are “exempt” in that they do not bear the sins of the parents, one of the requirements of baptism is that you as a parent agree to raise the child in the Catholic faith. I am guessing her, but perhaps Father could not see how you could reconcile your current marriage situation with a promise to raise the child Catholic.
threekidsmum said:
Second, so because I chose to leave a man who was abusive I can’t receive the eucharist until the church says it’s okay?! I needed their permission to leave? I was actually scolded by the monsignor because I took an oath….
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No. You can’t receive because you are in a fornicating relationship with someone who is not your husband. You did not need their permission to leave, but you do need to follow the guidance of the Church.
threekidsmum said:
His demeanor was just awful and pretentious, almost as if he was screening me to see if I was going to be “allowed” to become part of his church and to baptize my child. I hear weekly how the catholic religion wants to grow their numbers, etc. I can tell you that this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why. If it offended someone who is practicing and faithful, I can’t imagine how it would seem to those who are not catholic.

Can you offer some clarity as to where I should go from here? It seems that he just wanted to “fix” my current husband and I and also wanted money….ugh.
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No one was there but you and Father so we cannot comment except to offer you my prayers and to ask you to forgive Father if he in any way offended you. But this is NOT important. What IS important is your relationship with Jesus and His Church. May I humbly ask you to do some praying and research on your situation and then meet with Father again?
 
I understand you’re in a difficult situation, and I can’t speak to his statement that he wouldn’t baptize your son now.

But . . . he’s absolutely right about receiving Holy Communion. You do need to have your
marriage annulled. Until and unless you do, that marriage is considered valid, which means that you are living with a man who is not your husband.

I know that’s not what you want to hear, but that’s the Church’s teaching on the sacrament of marriage. I’m a bit surprised you weren’t told that in your pre-marriage meetings.

I’m not saying you shouldn’t have left your husband, sometimes the situation requires it. But you need to speak to someone you feel comfortable with, maybe another priest, or someone at the diocese, and find out how to petition for an annulment.
 
threekidsmum said:
I’ve been raised Catholic all my life, in college I chose to become more involved with my faith and became part of a wonderful church with an outstanding priest. He passion and approachability have been unsurpassed. Years later I married a man who was also Catholic, a match made in heaven right? WRONG!! Even with the premarital counseling, etc. he had everyone fooled! He was an abusive man, and while I took an oath to be together until death, after 7 years and two children later I made a decision out of the best interest (of the kids and myself) to divorce this man. I’m not sorry for my decision as I’ve seen my children flourish and thrive apart from that environment.

I’ve since met and married a wonderful man, he is not catholic however, so we did not get married in the catholic church. We have a little boy together, while my husband has no desire to become catholic, he has no problem with raising our son in the faith. My husband goes to mass with us, just doesn’t receive communion. Well I wanted to get our son baptized. Upon meeting with the Monsignor I walked out of his office questioning my choice of the catholic faith!! How sad is that?! He was awful, we are part of a parish that has over 6,000 members. My other two kids are in PRE and go to mass every Sunday. When I met with him regarding the baptism, all he said to me was “Well I don’t recognize you”….

Seriously, I’m in your mass every Sunday, I proceeded to tell him where I sit and that he doesn’t give me the eucharist as I am always on the other side of the aisle that he serves on. He crosses his arms and tells me that I don’t need to be intimidated by him, which I wasn’t.

In a nutshell he tells me that I have to have my marriage annulled through the church and I shouldn’t have been receiving the eucharist this whole time. Also he wouldn’t baptize our son until we got all of this “cleared” up.

Two things, based on what I understand babies are “exempt” from anything that they parents may do, therefore there is NO reason that he can’t get baptized. Second, so because I chose to leave a man who was abusive I can’t receive the eucharist until the church says it’s okay?! I needed their permission to leave? I was actually scolded by the monsignor because I took an oath…

His demeanor was just awful and pretentious, almost as if he was screening me to see if I was going to be “allowed” to become part of his church and to baptize my child. I hear weekly how the catholic religion wants to grow their numbers, etc. I can tell you that this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why. If it offended someone who is practicing and faithful, I can’t imagine how it would seem to those who are not catholic.

Can you offer some clarity as to where I should go from here? It seems that he just wanted to “fix” my current husband and I and also wanted money….ugh.
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Well, that is a difficult situation.

You decided your life and it is clear that you are a woman who has no trouble making decisions. And that simply does not question your decisions, thinking that they are all good. It may not be so, but it is what I read in your text.

Your decisions to leave your first one was correct because he was abusive. Was it correct, according to God’s eyes? According to yours, yes. and you did not say what you understand by abusive. Boy, I have seen here Ladies who keep heroically marriages in very bad circumstances.

All the rest is easy. Either you want to belong to the Church and follow the rules of the Church or you want to go your own way.

It seems to me that you want that everything goes your way. When you encountered an obstacle, the Priest, and things do not go your way, you say that “I walked out of his office questioning my choice of the catholic faith!!” It seems that you are willing to forget the Catholic Church if the church does not go your way.

And you are now way out. It seems to me that you did not ask the Church advice before divorcing and now you bang into your child’s baptism.

I dont know whether the Priest was rude for I did not hear his version. Your description of the Priest is not very kind, you talk about money that he is a bad priest that the Church does not grow for people like him…It seems that you encountered an obstacle and you dont like obstacles.

If you want an easy solution, I tell you: Go to an easy-going priest and he will baptize your child. More. You, yourself, may baptize your son, didnt you know?

But I think that if you want to go deeper into the problem, I think your situation is very tricky and needs clarification. But it is up to you to decide if your Love to Jesus Christ and the Catholic church is worth the trouble, for you may find many more obstacles to sort out your situation.

My option: stick to Jesus, your Best and Only Friend. But the Choice is yours.

I am willing to help in whatever you need.

God Bless.🙂
 
threekidsmum said:
Second, so because I chose to leave a man who was abusive I can’t receive the eucharist until the church says it’s okay?! I needed their permission to leave?
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Nope, and the priest should have made that clear. You can always make the prudential decision to separate yourself from an abusive husband. Nobody will ever deny you communion for that. What you needed permission for, and didn’t get, was to marry someone else.

I’m really sorry if the priest was rude. But even so, it sounds like he was basically correct in his facts.

–Jen
 
The part of teaching that most people miss is that a civil marriage and a sacramental marriage are two different things. Before entering a second marriage you must prove the first marriage was not valid. There is no Catholic divorce. It does sound like you have grounds for an annulment, and I will be praying for you.

For now, continue to go to mass, but do not recieve Jesus in the Eucharist until the annulment is granted. Still go to confession as needed. Live with your current husband as brother and sister until such time the annulment is granted and you can have your new marriage blessed by the church.

These are difficult things to hear, in the long run it is better for your soul.
 
I am so sorry that the message was not delivered in the kindest and most charitable of fashions. I have been through an abusive marriage and am currently working on my own decree of nullity. I am sending you a Private Message about the group we have on here - please take it under advisement. Know that while what he told you about divorce and remarriage was true the way he told you probably lacked charity on behalf of other Catholics I apologize and wish I could offer you a hug right now. God bless you and keep you.
 
JMJ

You do not need an annulment if y ou were married in the Catholic Church; however, your baby can be baptised that’s why CHrist presented us with the Sacraments.

If you get a divorce, then, you would need an annulment so things in the church wouldn’t
be taxing.]

It iis taxing when one parent is Catholic and the other non.
 
Jim_Roberts said:
JMJ

You do not need an annulment if y ou were married in the Catholic Church; however, your baby can be baptised that’s why CHrist presented us with the Sacraments.

If you get a divorce, then, you would need an annulment so things in the church wouldn’t
be taxing.]

It iis taxing when one parent is Catholic and the other non.
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This post is almost completely inaccurate. Not to derail the topic - but it is a Catholic’s duty to marry within the Catholic Church. I do not wish to beat a dead horse but we need to be very careful that we are sharing correct information. Even if the first marriage was not in the Church then there will need to be a lack of form finding so that the second one can be convalidated so that you may start to receive Eucharist.

My understanding and puzzleannie is probably the best to answer this because I believe she handles much Sacramental prep work for children - the monsignor is just making sure the children will be raised in a Catholic household - due to the irregularities at the moment he cannot be sure so in some circumstances it is better not to have the Baptismal promises placed on the children in case they are not raised in the faith as they will be unable to follow the precepts. However, if the parents show consistency and a strong desire to raise the children in teh Catholic faith and the ability to do so that would strengthen the chances of the children being baptized. - Like I said this would be better answered by puzzleannie.
 
…Years later I married a man who was also Catholic, a match made in heaven right? WRONG!! Even with the premarital counseling, etc. he had everyone fooled! He was an abusive man…
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As others have written, it sounds likely that there may be grounds for a finding of nullilty, because you did not consent to marry someone who is abusive and he his that from you until you were married. But the only opinion that truly matters right now is your pastor’s. So are you going to meet with him to discuss possible grounds, and file a petition for nullity for defect of consent?
I’ve since met and married a wonderful man, he is not catholic however, so we did not get married in the catholic church…
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Catholics are expected to marry in the Catholic Church, whether their spouses are Catholic or not, if both spouses are free to marry. (You aren’t yet free to marry, because in the eyes of the church you’re still married to husband #1). Catholics can marry in the Catholic Church but their wedding can take place physically elsewhere, if there is good reason and the bishop grants a dispensation.

You are very blessed that husband #2 respects you enough to respect your religion. He should accompany you to one of your appointments with your pastor.
In a nutshell he tells me that I have to have my marriage annulled through the church and I shouldn’t have been receiving the eucharist this whole time. …
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Others have explained why you should not be receiving the Eucharist. If you don’t understand why not, please discuss it with a priest or with the deacon who has apparently private-messaged you. All Catholics need to discern our worthiness before receiving, and we need to understand what that means.

You are not currently in union with Christ and His Church, even though you long to be. Please keep going to Mass, as you work on resolving your situation.
…Also he wouldn’t baptize our son until we got all of this “cleared” up…His demeanor was just awful and pretentious, almost as if he was screening me to see if I was going to be “allowed” to become part of his church and to baptize my child.
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You want your baby to be baptized in the Catholic Church. That is a good thing! But it needs to mean something.

It is the priest’s duty to “screen” the readiness of all candidates for Baptism, including infants. Do you know what it means to raise your child Catholic? The priest needs to know this. If you have some basic misunderstandings about worthiness to receive the Eucharist, then the priest should question what other misunderstandings you, the Catholic parent, might have about the faith, and pass on to your child. Let him help prepare you as the parent of this child. Because of your circumstances, it seems your pastor has a duty to delay your child’s Baptism. In your situation, your priest is being responsible, and charitable to you and your child by wanting to screen your child’s readiness (through you). I’m sorry that he wasn’t kinder toward you though. Please pray for him, and pray for the grace to forgive him so that you will more readily use the help he wants to offer you, so you can reconcile fully with Christ and His Church.

The fact that you want to leave the faith entirely, because one priest behaved less than ideally, concerns me about your conviction in faith. So I have a question for you. When your child is eventually baptized, after (1) your petition for nullity is granted, (2) you receive the sacrament of Reconciliation, and (3) your current marriage is convalidated in the Church, are you going to leave the Church, or tell your child to leave the church, if you get mad at another clergy member or lay leader? Think about it – what does that say about your desire to be Catholic or your desire for your baby to be a member of Christ’s Church?
I hear weekly how the catholic religion wants to grow their numbers, etc. I can tell you that this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why. If it offended someone who is practicing and faithful, I can’t imagine how it would seem to those who are not catholic.
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It is Christ’s desire that each baptized person in His Body make disciples … faithful disciples, not cafeteria Catholics. It’s not a numbers game. It’s about bringing Christ to the entire world, and the entire world to Christ. This mandate – this mission – is in the Scriptures. Yes, the method we use to do this does matter. Again, although you are offended, you as a baptized person have an obligation to forgive.* (I suggest praying the Lord’s Prayer to begin with).*

(part 1 of 2)
 
Can you offer some clarity as to where I should go from here?
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You have received some guidance – basically, make an appointment asap with your pastor, to begin resolving your marriage issues (petition for nullity, and when it is granted, convalidation). Be open to any help he offers you in explaining what we believe, our morals, and our practice. Welcome this opportunity for yourself! When you show a genuine intention to raise your child as a Catholic, think about how joyful you will be when your little one is finally baptized!
It seems that he just wanted to “fix” my current husband and I and also wanted money….ugh.
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Don’t you want your irregular marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Church? Don’t you want to receive Holy Communion worthily? Don’t you want to abide by Christ?

As for your money comment, did the priest tell you that with your petition for nullity, the diocese charges a fee? Yes, it’s not cheap. If you cannot afford it, tell your pastor, and perhaps he can work out a payment schedule, or perhaps the parish can contribute toward some of it. The actual expenses of the diocesan Tribunal are never fully covered by the fees they charge. This is not an act of greed on the part of the diocese or parish, it is realistic. Did you not pay for at least some of your legal fees when you were civilly divorced? If you’re able to, why wouldn’t you want to help pay for some of the costs incurred by the Tribunal? Once you sit down with your pastor and listen to what the process involves on the part of the Tribunal, you might have a better appreciation of the reason it needs funding.

By the way, are you and your family registered members of your parish? I hope you don’t resent putting a little something in the collection basket every week. If that does bother you, perhaps you can discuss this topic with the deacon who is private-messaging you.

Clashes happen. So does peace, when both parties work at it. I will pray for forgiveness and reconciliation between you and your pastor.

In the meantime, enjoy your children, and enjoy Mass, without receiving the Eucharist of course. It is a blessing to be able to attend.

(part 2 of 2)
 
I have to agree that leavig your husband was not the sin, but you joining another man and having his child was, unless your marriage was anulles by the Church it’s still valid marriage regardless wether you are with him or not. I suggest trying to get anulment and refrain from taking communion.
 
Oh one other thing that I forgot to mention in my above posts and I do not know your financial situation but this is something that many do not know. Most dioceses have programs to offset the cost of decree of nullity proceeding should a petitioner honestly not be able to afford it. However, it is also not as expensive as one thinks. For instance in my own diocese - it is $400 total. $50 to start - $175 at time of testimony, and $175 at time of completion. Over the course of a year which is usually the average MOST people can put that aside. If one cannot than there is a program in place. I just wanted to share it because with all things pastoral money should not be and is not an issue.
 
joanofarc2008 said:
Oh one other thing that I forgot to mention in my above posts and I do not know your financial situation but this is something that many do not know. Most dioceses have programs to offset the cost of decree of nullity proceeding should a petitioner honestly not be able to afford it. However, it is also not as expensive as one thinks. For instance in my own diocese - it is $400 total. $50 to start - $175 at time of testimony, and $175 at time of completion. Over the course of a year which is usually the average MOST people can put that aside. If one cannot than there is a program in place. I just wanted to share it because with all things pastoral money should not be and is not an issue.
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Curious question on my part. I’ve heard stories of difficulties in getting testimony from the difficult spouse. Ultimately, people just give up on the annullment process and drift away. Or they just ignore the church’s teachings.

I’m happyily married, but I have a relative that just gave up on the process. Not wanting to hijack this thread, I’m wondering just how difficult is the process, likelyhood of success, and any other insights. This might be of value to the OP in tackling the process.

I hope she gives it a go. Worth it in the end.
 
whipp711 said:
Curious question on my part. I’ve heard stories of difficulties in getting testimony from the difficult spouse. Ultimately, people just give up on the annullment process and drift away. Or they just ignore the church’s teachings.

I’m happyily married, but I have a relative that just gave up on the process. Not wanting to hijack this thread, I’m wondering just how difficult is the process, likelyhood of success, and any other insights. This might be of value to the OP in tackling the process.

I hope she gives it a go. Worth it in the end.
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While the Tribunal would prefer to hear from the spouse, the investigation can proceed without his/her (name removed by moderator)ut since sometimes the spouse cannot be located or refuses to participate. The petitioner should be able to come up with witnesses other than the spouse.
 
Qutie honestly, tribunals only hear from respondents about half of the time. That delays the process slightly, but not significantly, especially if there are good witnesses.
 
Just an update and for further clarity -
my faith has not been challenged, I know that Jesus is there for me and the only path to take. In all of the trying times with my ex that was exactly what gave me some peace was my prayers and faith, asking for guidance for making the right and best decisions for both myself and my kids. However, in terms of talking with the monsignor I don’t believe that ANY Catholic parishioner should be spoken down to!! I joined that parish as soon as I moved and yes I do put money in the collection basket (going on over 3 years). I’m involved with organizations within the church community, etc.

My meeting with him was to be about my son getting baptized, not where the older kids go to school (as they do not attend the Catholic school attached to the church), not about how much I give each week (I give what I can) and not about getting my husband enrolled in RCIA so he can become Catholic. Obviously I want to correct the situation otherwise I wouldn’t be posting here. I’m frustrated at the treatment and the condescending nature as I know that it doesn’t have to be that way.

I have contacted another parish in my community (not one that has over 6,000 members and the deacon did admonish me), he is going to work with me on all points, and rather than being critical he was supportive and wants to support this process. The end result is the same and the experience is better.

What would any of you all do if you met with your religious leader and they sat in their leather chair with their legs stretched out and arm crossed and said “you don’t need to be intimidated by me”…umm I wasn’t and WOW really?!!

These threads are helpful and somewhat supportive. However, there were a few that unless you know ALL of the facts you too need to have caution on passing judgement. I stand by my decisions but no I don’t only want the easy way out. If I did I would have just walked away completely.
 
Oh I also found out that they need to contact my ex in order for the annulment to happen. He doesn’t need to know where I am or what I’m doing. Any suggestions on how to prevent this? We left for a reason.
 
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