Difficult questions first time poster

[Doubtingthomas]

It looks like cardinal pell lost that debate heavily. He didn’t even know how to refute anything Dawkins said and I hate Dawkins!

 

[Doubtingthomas]

I have 0 experience with catholic works throughout the years.

 

[MichaelP3]

Not what I was going for.

As a non-Catholic I think Pell did pretty well.

 

[Kei]

Well, essentially, you should contemplate the higher things, and on God.

Of course faith is a gift, but growing in right reason, accepting more so the Logos in wisdom, this is a good thing.

 

[Doubtingthomas]

What are Logos and “right reason?”

 

[Kei]

The Logos is the word translated as “Word” in the Gospel of John.
Essentially, Jesus.
But what does that mean? It can be very nuanced, but essentially, wisdom.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a1.htm

 

[fhansen]

Deduction can certainly help, supplying a logic-based “motive of credibility” in place of the mythological stuff. But from there we can move on, we can ask, seek, and knock, wanting to confirm what we might already know by reason and even intuition. And there is where God can meet us. Humility is required; the more the better but God works with whatever we have. Pride seeks to oppose and exalt itself above God, to dismiss God, and pride is always associated with fear of what others think; it’s quite difficult, but necessary, to overcome. But, “With man this is impossible but with God all things are impossible”. Matt 19:26

 

[Spyridon]

There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with asking God to reveal himself to you.

Get on your knees and sincerely ask God to reveal himself to you, and seek his face - he will reveal himself to you, he promises to with the caveat that you search for him with your whole heart.

 

[Spyridon]

Many Christians reject the big bang theory but to me this just confirms a Higher Power

Why?

The big bang theory was formulated by a Catholic Priest-Scientist, Fr. George Lamaitre.

The big bang theory was at first rejected by the scientific establishment because it strongly supported the notion that the Universe had a definite beginning, which in turn strongly implies a supernatural Creator. When evidence for the BBT became overwhelming, the scientific community grudgingly accepted it.

 

[RandomAlias]

It looks like cardinal pell lost that debate heavily.

A funny (strange, puzzling) thing I have noticed about debates is that people on both sides think their side won. It’s something about human psychology, I guess.

 

[MichaelP3]

You said something about Church Fathers and I responded (you didn’t yet responded on so it remains open).

I gave an example to Mary and you didn’t even touch that.

In all honesty. I feel we went off topic wrt the OP and what that person was asking?..

Just as a side note. All your points were well established. Yet they assumed many things as I pointed out.

Regards

 

[MichaelP3]

Oh yea. I ALWAYS think James White won.

 

[MichaelP3]

You are on a Catholic forum, expect a Catholic answer that assumes the Catholic Church is the true Church.

If we want to continue this, it would be best to do so via PM. Don’t went to get any further off topic.

This is very true which is why I think about what I say .

Taking that into consideration, you are more than welcome to PM me with what you find confusing.

Regards

 

[steve-b]

Hard questions

[snip for space]

It seems to me like the only way people believe is at its basis in the explanation that God is only found through deduction and that’s ok because he’s a non physical being.

Is there any hope for me to be able to love past this and believe. I’m terrified of death and what happens when you die and I just don’t want to not exist likewise I can’t just wishfully think there is a God to alleviate my concerns.

Help!

God is at work in you. That’s why you are thinking ahead to what happens after we die. Ever hear the phrase “fear of God is the beginning of wisdom?” (Prov 9:10)

Faith is a gift from God. Ask God for faith. He won’t deny you. Then do what Peter teaches once you have faith
then 2 Peter 1:5-13 RSVCE - For this very reason make every effort - Bible Gateway Note 7 attributes are mentioned to add to faith. They must be added in ever increasing amounts, or one will fall. What is the 2nd attribute to add? Knowledge. Right up there at the top of the list. That’s how important it is.

Doubtingthomas:

It also seems a difficult argument because people say you can have faith and reason but when someone digs heavy into reason they say you just have to have faith. How do you have faith in something that exists only as a thought process?

God is more than a thought process. Too many people are stuck in the natural, and dismiss the supernatural realities. By virtue of our conception, we are immortal. Our soul will live forever. At the end of time and the resurrection, all bodies and souls are reunited. If the soul was in heaven they are now body and soul in heaven. If the soul was in hell they are now body and soul in hell. Purgatory ceases to exist. anybody that was in purgatory is then in heaven,. The question is, where will one be when they die.

As a suggestion, Stay away from popular opinions and sound bites. Dig into scripture, and the 2000 year old Catholic Church history. Read lives of the saints.

 

[ratio1]

A funny (strange, puzzling) thing I have noticed about debates is that people on both sides think their side won. It’s something about human psychology, I guess.

I must be the exception. I watched the debate live. I thought our good Cardinal could have done better but I must say he was very brave to go on a left wing tv show.

 

[guanophore]

I see many Christians and Catholics argue the following statements and it fills me with despair:

It is curious that you would come to an apologetics forum if arguments about theology “fill you with despair”. Had you ever considered avoiding situations that cause this?

When we start out seeking God and looking for him through signs and miracles I get the following answers:

You have started this statement with an assertion “when we start…”
Who is “we”?

How can you get “the following answers” when there was no question?

How do we know that it’s not just our limited understanding of the universe that we are providing a being to explain that which we cannot yet explain?

Supposing we are? Why is that a problem?

I know it’s a situation that’s impossible and everyone else seems to be able to accept the Bible or word of mouth but I struggle because you can’t use the Iliad or some mythological book and be like oh my God exists it says so here.

This post of yours is very vague and confusing. ARe you saying that you are trying to find proof that God exists?

How do we know that in this giant game of telephone across 2000 years that people didn’t get it wrong or there weren’t issues with translation?

I don’t think you can. In fact, I think it is more likely, if it is only a game of telephone, that it is wrong.

It seems to me like the only way people believe is at its basis in the explanation that God is only found through deduction and that’s ok because he’s a non physical being.

I don’t agree with you, but it really does not matter, since what matters in this case is what you believe. Do you believe that God is only found through deduction?

Is there any hope for me to be able to love past this and believe.

You want to be able to “love past” your deduction?

I’m terrified of death and what happens when you die and I just don’t want to not exist likewise I can’t just wishfully think there is a God to alleviate my concerns.

Sounds like you are having an existential crisis! Have you ever tried talking to your Creator about it?

 

[Reuben_J]

It also seems a difficult argument because people say you can have faith and reason but when someone digs heavy into reason they say you just have to have faith. How do you have faith in something that exists only as a thought process?

My mind is bordered on the simplistic and I do not understand advanced physic and have hard time trying to understand Einstien thought. So probably my post is quite useless to you.

I often ask the same question and I get no better answer to explain it other than God exists, for what we are and everything else today.

I am stuck with the Big Bang. To me it does not disprove that God does not exist. So I am still there and therefore cannot understand why there are atheists.

If there is truly a Big Bang, what caused it then? If there is a universe, does it has a boundary, like a washing basin or a marble? What about if there is a bigger power holding that basin in his hand?

There is no such thing as infinite, if there is, I want to know the answer and explanation. Something cannot come from nothing. I am stuck with that. There must be something to cause something to happen.

The existence of higher power, which I call God, can only explain that.

God who has no beginning and no end, who is omnipotent and omnipresent, who can will something just by his word, who knows everything from before there is life and after.

 

[Vico]

…

Catechism

III. THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD ACCORDING TO THE CHURCH

36 "Our holy mother, the Church, holds and teaches that God, the first principle and last end of all things, can be known with certainty from the created world by the natural light of human reason."11 Without this capacity, man would not be able to welcome God’s revelation. Man has this capacity because he is created “in the image of God”.12

37 In the historical conditions in which he finds himself, however, man experiences many difficulties in coming to know God by the light of reason alone:

Though human reason is, strictly speaking, truly capable by its own natural power and light of attaining to a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, who watches over and controls the world by his providence, and of the natural law written in our hearts by the Creator; yet there are many obstacles which prevent reason from the effective and fruitful use of this inborn faculty. For the truths that concern the relations between God and man wholly transcend the visible order of things, and, if they are translated into human action and influence it, they call for self-surrender and abnegation. The human mind, in its turn, is hampered in the attaining of such truths, not only by the impact of the senses and the imagination, but also by disordered appetites which are the consequences of original sin. So it happens that men in such matters easily persuade themselves that what they would not like to be true is false or at least doubtful.13

38 This is why man stands in need of being enlightened by God’s revelation, not only about those things that exceed his understanding, but also “about those religious and moral truths which of themselves are not beyond the grasp of human reason, so that even in the present condition of the human race, they can be known by all men with ease, with firm certainty and with no admixture of error”. 14

11 Vatican Council I, Dei Filius 2S 3004; cf. 3026; Vatican Council II, Dei Verbum 6.
12 Cf. Gen 1:27.
13 Pius XII, Humani generis, 561S 3875.
14 Pius XII, Humani generis, 561S 3876; cf. Dei Filius 2S 3005; DV 6; St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I,1,1.

 

[Gorgias]

A funny (strange, puzzling) thing I have noticed about debates is that people on both sides think their side won. It’s something about human psychology, I guess.

(Not to mention a good reason to not put too much stock in debates. )

 

[Gorgias]

I have 0 experience with catholic works throughout the years.

Was this a non sequitur? It didn’t seem to follow from @Kei’s post.