Difficulties with Son-in-law and grandchildren

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jebojora

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Hi Everyone

It’s been a long time since I’ve posted here, but I am looking for advice.

My daughter married 5 years ago, in the Church. She is a practicing Catholic, he is a non-denominational Church of Christ member. They have 2 children, a 1 year old son and a 3 year old daughter.

My son-in-law is arrogant and selfish. I have difficulty being around him. I don’t have them over as a family too often because of how difficult he is and how he treats his children. It upsets me so much I have trouble sleeping for nights after they’ve visited.

He is constantly reprimanding and admonishing the children. They can’t do much of anything without him telling them to “be quiet” or “calm down” even when they are being good. He doesn’t like just normal toddler behavior.

He treats them like adults. Always expecting an understanding and comprehension way beyond their years. He lectures the older one for every infraction asking her “why” she did something if she says she doesn’t know he admonishes her for lying.

Just this past Thanksgiving, we had all just sat down for dinner. I purposely put the 3 year old between me and my daughter, specifically to keep her away from her father. My granddaughter apparently spit food on the floor. Next thing I know her father was up and loudly said “come here right now.” She got out of her chair and followed him into the play room. I could hear him lecturing her, then a slap. She came out crying of course. I was devastated. It ruined Thanksgiving for me and all the other family members.

I’m just at my wits end on how to deal with this.

I spoke to my daughter on Thanksgiving about it. I said “you know he hit her right?” She looked sheepish and said, yeah. I said “are you okay with that?” She claims it rarely happens.

I’m not against punishment believe me. I swatted my children when they were little, from time to time. I am against what I see as constant oppression of the children and of their natural inquisitiveness and energy.If something they do annoys him, it’s “time out” even if what they did wasn’t wrong or naughty, it is just that he is annoyed by it.

He expects the 3 year old to put complex thoughts together and to remember everything he’s told her during the day. If he tells her to “calm down” at the mall, then later at home she get’s energetic, to him she is being disobedient because hours ago he told her to calm down. She is then punished because she didn’t listen.

He plays video games…a lot. One time I brought my granddaughter home, so he paused the game. She looked at it and said “Daddy are you done?” He snapped “NO! I’ve told you and told you I’m not done. You asked that before and the answer is always the same NO I’M NOT DONE!” This is the typical way he talks to his children.

So, the question is do any of you have to deal with situations like this? If so, how do you manage it?

I pray and pray for them. I don’t want to risk damaging my relationship with my daughter by constantly complaining about her husband. She recognizes that he is selfish and that he expects too much of the kids and says she talks to him. However, she says she had to pick her battles, and doesn’t want to fight with him constantly.

Sorry for the long post. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you
 
Sounds like borderline child abuse. This behavior will have a profound impact on the children. Your son-in-law needs help. It’s hard to know how you personally should go about helping the situation, so don’t do anything till you’ve made a plan of action and thought it through carefully and prayerfully. It is a delicate situation, and making accusations or saying the wrong thing to the wrong person may make the situation worse. I would seek advice from a TRUSTED priest or professional therapist (not all priests or professional therapists are necessarily going to give good advice so trust your instincts about what they say) before taking action. Prayers for you and your family. :signofcross:
 
Thanks for the reply.

Honestly I don’t know what to do. I’m not sure I could convince anyone that he is abusive.

My daughter is a great mom.

I have spoken to her about the possibility of long-term emotional or psychological damage. But my daughter feels that her husband has gotten “better” and that he will continue.

My son-in-law’s father is the same self-centered type of person. Very sarcastic and childish. So it is obvious where he learned it and why he is like he is. However, it doesn’t make it okay to do it to his children.

I appreciate your response.
 
jebojora said:

“I’m not sure I could convince anyone that he is abusive.”

You convinced me. And bear in mind, when you see him, he is probably on his best behavior. He is probably even worse when you can’t see him. What you describe is probably not good enough for child protective services, though.

This is a very difficult situation, as your daughter is not standing up for her kids and seems to be in denial and you don’t want to get between your daughter and her husband. You could tell your daughter stuff like, “Hey, there’s a parenting class being offered downtown. It sounds fun. Why don’t you and Bob leave the kids with us and make a date night of it.” Keep looking for stuff like that and making the offer. Your daughter will know what you mean, even if you don’t spell it out. There’s also a book entitled Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men that I suggest you buy, highlight, and show the relevant passages of to your daughter when she comes over with the kids by herself. (For obvious reasons, I’m not suggesting that you give her the book for home reading.)

I don’t think that SIL is incurable, but it would require a lot of good faith and work on his part and your daughter’s part to bring him up to below average.

Aside from that, there’s not an awful lot you can do. The only other thing that comes to mind is whenever you see SIL be particularly loathsome, put another $100 in a fund earmarked for your daughter and her kids, just in case. If SIL turns over a new leaf and does so consistently, you can transform the money into a college fund for the kids.

Best wishes!
 
Thank you.

I have looked for parenting classes, but they all seem to be for people who are court ordered to take them, or for those on welfare. For people who could just use some help, I haven’t found anything.

Add to that my SIL refuses to accept any therapist opinion, or help, since he rejects that type of thing as being valid. Because Dr. Spock (of many years ago) had a son who committed suicide, my SIL feels that all psychiatry and therapy has no merit.

I believe he has bought into this kind of fundamentalist approach to discipline. My daughter told me that his pastor does the same kind of thing. He will lecture his children when they have done something wrong and them tell them to “choose a hand” that he will then smack. I believe this is actually a discipline approach that is prevalent in the fundamentalist community. I don’t mean all of them but there is a faction that seems to hold to this.

Thank you for the advice. I will look for the book you mentioned.

I am trying to respect my daughter and her husband and their right to raise their children as they see fit. And at the same time suffering because I see their choices as detrimental to my grandchildren.

I get the grandkids one evening a week, and I try to give them fun free time to just be normal inquisitive kids. I talk to my daughter and she usually takes my advice and tries to steer her husband in a different direction. My daughter is smart girl, but very laid back and easy going. I feel she puts up with a lot from him just because its the easier road.

I was actually expecting people to tell me to butt out. I looked online and there were several stories, some worse than mine, but grandparents were regularly advised to mind their own business. I’m having trouble minding my own business, because two people I love are being hurt.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
 
jebojora said:

“Because Dr. Spock (of many years ago) had a son who committed suicide, my SIL feels that all psychiatry and therapy has no merit.”

That’s pretty lame.

“I believe he has bought into this kind of fundamentalist approach to discipline. My daughter told me that his pastor does the same kind of thing. He will lecture his children when they have done something wrong and them tell them to “choose a hand” that he will then smack. I believe this is actually a discipline approach that is prevalent in the fundamentalist community. I don’t mean all of them but there is a faction that seems to hold to this.”

I suspect his pastor would find SIL’s behavior disturbing and ridiculous, fundamentalist or not.

There’s no fundamentalist group that preaches daddy’s unlimited right to computer games.

Here’s a thought–how about attending a service or two and then inviting the pastor and family over to your house for a get together with SIL? It might be very interesting to see if SIL 1) acts exactly the same or 2) pulls himself together and acts better than normal. Either way, I think that would be helpful.

“I am trying to respect my daughter and her husband and their right to raise their children as they see fit. And at the same time suffering because I see their choices as detrimental to my grandchildren.”

You are doing the right thing.

“I was actually expecting people to tell me to butt out. I looked online and there were several stories, some worse than mine, but grandparents were regularly advised to mind their own business. I’m having trouble minding my own business, because two people I love are being hurt.”

No way–you are very right to be concerned.

Three are being hurt, actually. This isn’t great for your daughter, either.
 
Thank you. All of you.

At the very least it feels good to have others understand and validate my feelings/instincts in this situation.

I will seek the advice of our priest, perhaps he can guide me or give me the name of someone who can.

Monicad, thank you for your post. I have felt that our Blessed Mother is the one I need to turn to, and I have been asking her to pray for my daughter and her family, as well as comfort the children. I teach my granddaughter that she can always ask “Jesus’ mommy” to comfort her. So that is a confirmation for me.

Your advice to love my son-in-law I know is right, but I have a very hard time. Whenever he is in my presence all I want to do is grab my grandkids and get out of the room. And that is exactly what I do. So, you’re right, he probably does know.

I hadn’t thought to say nice things to him. To be honest that just doesn’t occur to me. I know God loves him, and I need to pray for God to give me that kind of love for him as well.

Thank you everyone. You don’t know how much you’ve all helped me.

:thankyou:
 
As the kids grow older they’ll realize that grandma’s house has a very different feel than mom and dad’s. They’ll realize that grandma listens and plays and encourages creativity. They’ll see that grandma disciplines by redirecting and logical consequences and that she doesn’t do it out of anger. In other words, they will learn a lot about love and self-esteem from you. Keep inviting the kids over (alone, perhaps) or offer to give mom and dad a break by taking the kids for an afternoon or weekend. Do you live close enough to be a regular part of their lives?

If you do invite them over as a family, consider that son-in-law will notice how you discipline and treat his children (just as he has learned from pastor) and over time this might have an influence on his parenting style as well. If you catch the kids jumping or spinning or something that might come across as wild or unruly to dad, what would happen if you said with a smile, “Wow! You guys look like you’re having so much fun! Should we put some music on so you can dance better?” Would he still discipline them if the behaviour has already been addressed by another adult?
 
I think it probably is true that SIL feels under more pressure to perform when visiting his in-laws.

I also like the idea of positively reinforcing SIL when he accidentally gets things right (but without patronizing him–that’s a tricky spot to hit). There are a lot of books on this subject. I like “Transforming the Difficult Child” and “Don’t Shoot the Dog” and often recommend them here.

I suspect that SIL won’t notice or register effective, age-appropriate discipline if it’s not explicitly pointed out to him, because I don’t think he has that level of sensitivity or interpersonal insight. Also, bear in mind that it is often the case that grandmas and teachers can get better behavior out of children with less effort, as kids often try harder for grandmas and teachers.
 
I would also explicitly mention parenting techniques like redirection and positive reinforcement to SIL (or to DIL in front of SIL). “I was just reading an article that said blah blah blah” you can say, right after having used the technique to good effect.
 
THIS. IS. ABUSE. 100%.

I know this from personal experience.

When I married my 1st husband, he had a 3 year old daughter - Anna - by an ex-girlfriend (and an older daughter by his 1st wife). He and Anna were living with his parents on a couple of acres of land on which their house was built, along with a house his parents built for one of his sisters and her husband, and their young children. (They attended Upper Room Tabernacle on Long Island.) Another of his sisters was married, and she and her husband lived in a Christian “commune” type of group (also on Long Island). His mother taught ESL and religion to adults at a Spanish-speaking “Church of God.” They all were Pentecostal believers (except for my husband, and my father-in-law), and as part of their beliefs, they practiced stringent religious studies, and corporal punishment (mainly out of the eyes of those not of their faith). (Prayers, please, for my good-hearted ex-mom-in-law who is 98 years of age, 100% blind due to glaucoma, living alternately with both daughters now in Oklahoma.)

When that husband and I married, he brought his daughter to live with us. He made it clear that she was “his” daughter and I had no say in her raising and discipline when she was “bad” etc. He’d verbally abuse her to tears, and hit her with his belt. (Poor little thing, she never was “bad” - she was just a three year old!) As she got older she grew to trust in me more until I finally took her aside and one-on-one I asked her if she wanted me to say something to her father. She said yes. I told her this could be very difficult, and he might get even more angry at her if I said something, but she didn’t care. I think she looked at me as a “last resort.” The next time he brutally lost his temper at her and she started to cry, I stepped in and demanded he stop it. He yelled at me about her being his daughter and I yelled back that maybe it was time I started being a Mother and he start acting like a Father instead of a monster. The balance tipped at that moment. I will never forget the look of trust and love on that child’s face when she heard me support her, when I spoke up on her behalf. She was flabbergasted.

It was the morally right thing to do, and suddenly, she and I had an alignment.

That marriage ended 9 years after it began, shortly after Anna’s 11th or 12th birthday, and when they moved away he forbade her to contact me, but she didn’t obey and we kept in touch secretly all the time. When she turned 18, when she became an adult in New York State, I adopted her. I drew up all the legal documents myself (I am a paralegal), and when the Judge banged his gavel and congratulated us, I had a daughter although I had never been pregnant, never given birth.

My name is on her birth certificate. I am her mom and mother now, and my husband and I are grandparents to her twin sons. I was in the delivery room! She and I have the best relationship ever. I even helped her locate her bio-mom, and brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews. She has all the family she could possibly want.

I am not saying what I did is the way YOU should handle things… I am saying only that it is the way I handled things, and it worked for me. Sometimes the adults in a child’s life are not the adults who should be raising them.

I wonder if your daughter is being abused by her husband, and that she is not saying anything because she is embarrassed or ashamed. I volunteer with abused women, those involved in domestic violence, those who have been raped or sexually abused, and this is commonplace in all their lives. It might be worth your while to contact an abuse center and obtain counseling for yourself, like spouses of alcoholics go to Al-A-Non even if they don’t drink. Does your son-in-law believe that “what the man of the house says, goes?” If so, I think he’s got your daughter wrongly under his thumb.

Someday you may need to be there for your grandchildren in a way you do not expect.
 
WiccanWoman said:

“Someday you may need to be there for your grandchildren in a way you do not expect.”

Yes!

I would even consider starting some sort of paper trail now, so that if there is ever a divorce and issues with custody, it will be down there in black and white, that as of December 2013 that you observed the following disturbing behavior. It might be a good idea to talk to a lawyer about this.

Hopefully, it never comes to that and SIL will improve, but if it does come to divorce, the last thing you want is for him to have custody of your grandchildren.
 
Happens to Catholics too…children should be seen and not heard…it often crosses the line to abuse…hitting a toddler for spitting food out at Thanksgiving meal where child may have rejected the taste, texture or overwhelmed with too many options…crosses the line.

Positive Discipline is a book by a RN, it’s been around for twenty plus years…main theory…discipline needs to be RELEVANT and RELATED to behavior to make change. Each time we do something that works we are positively reinforced to do the same again…don’t get stuck in guilt, get back on track.

It is certainly relevant to speak to SIL about concerns, keeping an open heart…I doubt he feels good for hitting a toddler to try and get results, he is most likely very frustrated that his efforts to control this little person aren’t working…related a book by RN.

Even if he doesn’t use book, your daughter can and it will help her to be strong and consistent.
 
This makes me sad for those kids and their mom. I’m sure your daughter feels trapped in the situation. And yes, I know Catholic families like this as well, and non religious, and any other group you can come across. Some people just don’t understand children. Kids are not little adults. They need love and guidance. Of course that includes discipline, but I find it is much easier in the long run to teach by example and model behavior on their level than to constantly try to control them. I look at it that in an infant and toddler’s eyes, their parents don’t just represent God, their parents ARE God. How we treat them and respond to them influences how they will ultimately understand and know the Lord. God does not control us. He equipped us with free will. God does not lecture us and expect us to remember finite details from years ago, or even hours ago. He gives us guidance through our conscience and the Ten Commandments and the Beattitudes and though examples from His own life on earth (the Gospels). God does not hover over us and micromanage every situation. Instead He allows us to fall down and struggle to find our way, while lovingly waiting for us to ask for His help when we get lost. When we are enjoying life, He is dancing at Cana right along with us! When we are out of control and needing to be reprimanded, He accepts His place right beside us on the Cross. Of course He never deserved the cross and usually we do deserve our punishments, but still He shows us how to accept our punishments with humility and honor.

I am not in the “gentle discipline” group at all. I believe when the time comes and a child is truly misbehaving and not just being a kid, punishment must be quick and memorable. Run into the street–swat on the tail. Purposely hurt sibling–time in corner plus doing kind deeds for the family. Break something on purpose–time in corner, clean the mess, and do whatever is possible to replace/repair item. If that isn’t possible then adjustments are made of course. And as soon as the punishment and subsequence penance is paid, followed by appologies and a short explanation as to exactly what was wrong with what was done, full restoration to family life with no one being allowed to bring it up again. This prevents someone from being labeled the “bad” sibling or whatever. Most truly rotten actions have natural consequences or at least logical consequences built in, so I’ve never really seen that installing disciple is all that difficult. What makes it difficult is when we allow our emotions to take over instead.

I’m praying for your daughter and grandkids. Your whole family is in a hard place. but I most especially feel for your daughter. As a mom I can’t imagine how hard it must be to watch dad over react and not feel like you can step in. If you can help encourage her to model great parenting then maybe he will see the good results and jump on board as well. I know that sometimes kids are annoying and most of the time you can redirect them towards something constructive, but sometimes it is OK to place consequences on flat out annoying behaviors too. They do need to learn there are boundaries. But at such young ages I can’t see how they could really be doing anything that severe. Please tread lightly so as you communication with daughter remains strong. She’s going to need you down the road. And so will her children.
 
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