Digital Icons

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An expert from an article by Marek Czarnecki on American Catholic.org…
Iconographers who ascribe deeper meaning to materials tend to condemn other iconographers who use acrylics or wax or oil to write icons. I refuse to be divisive like that because God can work through any material he chooses.
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The true mystical dimension and meaning of the icon will only be revealed to us on the other side. From this side, in this physical world, we can only hope and speculate about its deeper dimensions. Sometimes we get a peek at that other side in prayer or when grace works in us through the image. But oftentimes, this has little to do with the materials or even the iconographer. It’s at God’s discretion.
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The question I present is what the faithful out there think of the idea of digital iconography. In other words, religious Icons constructed through proper pray using digital art programs like Adobe Illustrator and others.

God gives us grace. It’s through his Will that we get a glimpse of the heavens in Icons. We cannot contain his power in an Icon, nor prescribe its limits. God can work through any medium, including digitally created iconography.

Thoughts?

(original article)
 
We should accept all forms of art that give glory to God, and also accept that digital art can be just as good.

However, since it does not have a traditional feel to it, it is unlikely to gather much support, mainly because it is the Orthodox who use and make icons most, and they, in general, are a little apprehensive of new things.

In Christ,
 
You have a point. One issue that we are dealing with today is a lack of new religious art. Almost all really good religious art, as seen by the masses, is the art of the masters done hundreds of years ago. The religious artists of today must not be afraid to up-date their tools and their art, keeping in mind a reverance that is not to be tampered with and a gift from God that is to be used.
 
Iconographer said:
An expert from an article by Marek Czarnecki on American Catholic.org…

The question I present is what the faithful out there think of the idea of digital iconography. In other words, religious Icons constructed through proper pray using digital art programs like Adobe Illustrator and others.

God gives us grace. It’s through his Will that we get a glimpse of the heavens in Icons. We cannot contain his power in an Icon, nor prescribe its limits. God can work through any medium, including digitally created iconography.

Thoughts?

(original article)
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Are you talking about printing out said digital icons onto paper, or to displaying them on a digital display device?
 
Iconographer, if wax, acrylics and oils aren’t traditionally used to write icons what materials ARE traditionally used? :mmm:

The only thing I can think of is possibly something like egg tempera. Not that I am very knowledgeable in this area.
 
LilyM said:
Iconographer, if wax, acrylics and oils aren’t traditionally used to write icons what materials ARE traditionally used? :mmm:
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Egg-tempra paints and gold leaf.

But hand-made icons made the old-fashined way can be pretty expensive, even if it is worth it.
 
Wax is definitely an element of traditional icons, in fact even older than the egg-and-tempera technique:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encaustic

Unfortunately, today the encaustic technique is practically non-existent among iconographers.

Digital icons (supposing we would like to display them as on a computer monitor) would pose a problem of an unusual source of light, which would be behind the icon itself. Not that this would necessarily be a bad idea (it enhances, if possible, the concept of “window unto heaven”), but the result would be a wholly different thing from a traditional icon.

Perhaps we should at least differentiate between technological evolutions of materials and new fields of application. Using the former would be legitimate (i.e., a modern multi-layered wooden board, which keeps its shape better than the old solid boards), as we could presume that even our ancestors would have made use of such technologies, had they been available. Moving to new fields, however, should make us evaluate whether we are still writing icons, or following a truly different form of art.
 
Padre_Ambrogio said:
Wax is definitely an element of traditional icons, in fact even older than the egg-and-tempera technique:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encaustic

Unfortunately, today the encaustic technique is practically non-existent among iconographers.

Digital icons (supposing we would like to display them as on a computer monitor) would pose a problem of an unusual source of light, which would be behind the icon itself. Not that this would necessarily be a bad idea (it enhances, if possible, the concept of “window unto heaven”), but the result would be a wholly different thing from a traditional icon.

Perhaps we should at least differentiate between technological evolutions of materials and new fields of application. Using the former would be legitimate (i.e., a modern multi-layered wooden board, which keeps its shape better than the old solid boards), as we could presume that even our ancestors would have made use of such technologies, had they been available. Moving to new fields, however, should make us evaluate whether we are still writing icons, or following a truly different form of art.
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Ha! I didn’t know it was older than egg-tempra! What you learn in a day…
 
I am not an iconographer, but I would like to make a comment about the idea from an ordinary layperson’s perspective. The very act of writing an icon is accompanied by prayer, it is a prayerful exercise. The iconographer pours his heart and soul into it, it is ascetic spiritual exercise. We need this kind of icon, and iconographers need to do what they do too.

This is not merely an art, nor a medium of pleasure, entertainment or hobby.

I can understand an evolution in techniques and materials, but some forms of technology remove and replace an essential element, that is, the incarnate reacting to the infinite. Why wouldn’t an ioconographer want to break a few eggs anyway? This is the good earth expressing it’s faith back to our creator.

I would compare the idea to laser-cut statuary. Does anyone really prefer that to an original hand sculpted piece? And what about those horrid electric-light candle stands…that take dollar bills and have timers?

It reminds me of a parish I visited once that had light projections on the wall for the music to follow.

Follow the bouncing ball…
 
First and foremost I’m referring to writing an icon through months and months of prayer and fasting, meditation and contemplation, etc. by electronic means (using Adobe Illustrator or suitable instruments), but not stopping there.

I’ve been working on one such icon for six months now. Soon I will be printing it out, then working with it on multi-layered board or wood, combining gold leaf and possibly bronze leaf to create an icon of “Christ the Lifegiver.” I will frame it when it’s finished in a non-glare glass, so as to not seperate the venerator from the icon. Possible I won’t even frame it, we will see.

God gives us all gifts and we should use those gifts with complete openess to his Will. This type of icon is what I feel called to do at the moment.
The very act of writing an icon is accompanied by prayer, it is a prayerful exercise. The iconographer pours his heart and soul into it, it is ascetic spiritual exercise. We need this kind of icon, and iconographers need to do what they do too.
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I agree 100%, but I don’t agree with where you went from there Hesychios. Yes, an iconographer pours his heart and soul into an icon, and that shouldn’t be limited to the ingredients, in fact… it isn’t. We cannot put a limit on our emotions because they rest in God. We shouldn’t put boundaries on God’s “windows” either.
 
Just a point here, folks, which nobody has mentioned.

An iconographer has a spiritual father and such a major departure from the tradition would need to be discussed with him and receive his blessing.
 
Iconographer said:
I agree 100%, but I don’t agree with where you went from there Hesychios. Yes, an iconographer pours his heart and soul into an icon, and that shouldn’t be limited to the ingredients, in fact… it isn’t. We cannot put a limit on our emotions because they rest in God. We shouldn’t put boundaries on God’s “windows” either.
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Well all I can say is that you asked for opinions and I gave mine. Welcome to the forum BTW, I had not noticed you were new here. 🙂

You did not state that you were already into such a project for six months and wanted to know what we think of what you are already doing. It is nice to know what the process is you are using.

But I don’t think that would have affected my opinion on this topic. I don’t mean any offence here but I do have opinions about this, and you asked. I cannot help but notice a sort of parallel in perspective to how western Catholics treat all things religious. Innovation and novelty are eagerly explored in all areas from theology to liturgy to architecture (and those damned electric candles).

The same openness that makes iconography an acceptable interest to a western Christian is the one that apparently sees no problem manipulating technique and discarding traditional practice. It becomes another novel approach to explore.

I think we do too much glorying in our achievements, exalting our human intellect and idolizing our technology in this culture.

Sorry for rambling, I’m getting on in years and have formed a few opinions along the way. I’ll get off my soapbox now - pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

As it has been said “opinions are like noses, everybody’s got one” or something like that.
 
Hesychios said:
As it has been said “opinions are like noses, everybody’s got one” or something like that.
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Wish that had been the version my dear mother would have used.

I don’t think I can find anything spiritually wrong with a careful rendering of an icon through electronic means. I am well aware of the thought and concern that can go into such work. There’s something about it that sits uneasy with me still. I think it is the novelty of it. I don’t think I’d purchase such an icon for that reason. I’d rather save up for some egg temperas made from the hands and brush strokes of a man who could feel it and touch it every step of the way. There is something so much more dynamic about the tactile aspect that is rendered so crisp and clean and sterile when working with a digital image instead. That’s my take on it. I’d be interested in seeing your work when it is completed.
 
Iconographer,

Very interesting thread. Welcome to the forum.

Joe
 
Thanks.

Once I’ve completed the icon I will put some pictures up to show you, but I won’t just put a screen shot because I want to make sure that you are seeing the completed prayer.

I understand the tactile idea, and I agree with you completely. That’s why it is not completely digital, just parts of it are printed out. Other parts are painted, it’s more mixed media than anything.

I’m not sure about others, but I know I am doing this because I feel I’m properly using my talents to help others be closer to God, not to show off or feel good about my work.

Thanks everyone for making a contribution to this thread thus far 🙂
 
Isn’t it fair to say that most icons ordinary people own these days are either photographs of icons, or made in factories with some clever application of gold leaf? Or is everyone here only buying original icons?!
 
Iconographer said:
You’re right Zaphod, and what you said actually says a lot.
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Agreed! It says much about one of the less edifying aspects of our world… a permanent sense of hurry. If we purchase a lot to build a church, then we would like to see it built and fully equipped in a week or so (as a parish priest, I fully know the temptation of saying “please finish the iconostasis before Saturday afternoon, so we will have no hindrance at Vespers”…). And usually, we would like to copy those magnificent churches that were completed in decades, even centuries of hard work. Small wonder that the net result is not so inspiring…

Yet, current technology really allows us to have a painted church (if only in replica) in a few days. Should we choose not to avail ourselves of these means? Are we sure that our ancestors in the Faith would not have purchased themselves cheap reproductions of icons, rather than having them dutifully painted in the regular, blessed (…and costly) way?
 
Padre_Ambrogio said:
Agreed! It says much about one of the less edifying aspects of our world… a permanent sense of hurry. If we purchase a lot to build a church, then we would like to see it built and fully equipped in a week or so (as a parish priest, I fully know the temptation of saying “please finish the iconostasis before Saturday afternoon, so we will have no hindrance at Vespers”…). And usually, we would like to copy those magnificent churches that were completed in decades, even centuries of hard work. Small wonder that the net result is not so inspiring…

Yet, current technology really allows us to have a painted church (if only in replica) in a few days. Should we choose not to avail ourselves of these means? Are we sure that our ancestors in the Faith would not have purchased themselves cheap reproductions of icons, rather than having them dutifully painted in the regular, blessed (…and costly) way?
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It would be kind of wierd going to an orthodox church for many years with no icons, until enough money becomes available to purchase one, don’t you think?
 
Zaphod said:
It would be kind of wierd going to an orthodox church for many years with no icons, until enough money becomes available to purchase one, don’t you think?
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Here is one of our small parish churches in New Zealand.

There are two real icons on the iconscreen - the Tikhvin Mother of God and that of Christ, painted in a Canadian monastery. The rest are paper prints made from jpeg’s found on the Internet using good printing equipment. How long they will stay there before being replaced by real icons is anybody’s guess.

img223.imageshack.us/img223/3541/stnicholaschch01mx3.jpg
 
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