Dilemma of time bound and timeless

[Natural_Numbers]

1. God is in state of timeless
2. This means he has only one eternal act
3. This means that creation is actual
4. This means that past, now and future should be actual
5. We however only experience now
6. This means that only now is actual
7. (4) and (6) contradict each other hence a the act creation is mutually separate from act existence
8. To resolve the conflict one has to assume that there exist a boundary which is neither timeless nor time bound
9. This boundary cannot ontologically exist
10. Hence (1) is wrong

I am not sure that (2) follows from (1).

Nor does it seem that (3) follows (2), or that (4) follows (3). Or really that (6) follows from (5).

Maybe I’m missing something but I think your terms are pretty vague. Am I interpreting this correctly?

*1) God is in a state of timelessness *
Meaning: God is outside our timeline? God does not change with time? God does not experience any time? Somewhat ambiguous premise.

• 1. This means he has only one eternal act*
     Meaning: Depends on your interpretation of (1). I suppose this follows if God does not experience time.
• 1. This means that creation is actual*
     Meaning: I’m not sure what this means. Does it mean that creation exists in God’s “present”? Sure.
• 1. This means that past, now and future should be actual*
     Meaning: To God, sure. Everything on our timeline could be in his “present”
• 1. We however only experience now*
     Sure
• 1. This means that only now is actual*
     To us.
• 1. (4) and (6) contradict each other hence a the act creation is mutually separate from act existence*
     This sentence is very hard to parse. If I’m interpreting it correctly, I don’t think it follows. From God’s perspective, all events could be happening immediately, but we could experience time differently.
• 1. To resolve the conflict one has to assume that there exist a boundary which is neither timeless nor time bound*
     I don’t see how this follows at all.
• 1. This boundary cannot ontologically exist*
     This needs to be proven.
• 1. Hence (1) is wrong*

9 and 10 need a lot of support before 11 can be shown.

 

[Natural_Numbers]

I can create a sort of universe using a computer program, wherein the entities in that program could experience time very differently from myself. For example, you can create a program that simulates population dynamics, and project how a population given certain constraints would change over a 100 year period. You could calculate the end population and the beginning population virtually instantly. In that case, the creator of the simulation could “experience” its beginning and end simultaneously.

 

[pete_29]

1. God is in state of timeless
2. This means he has only one eternal act
3. This means that creation is actual
4. This means that past, now and future should be actual
5. We however only experience now
6. This means that only now is actual
7. (4) and (6) contradict each other hence a the act creation is mutually separate from act existence
8. To resolve the conflict one has to assume that there exist a boundary which is neither timeless nor time bound
9. This boundary cannot ontologically exist
10. Hence (1) is wrong

God is amazing, isn’t He !

 

[Bahman]

I am not sure that (2) follows from (1).

Well suppose that he has two act one following another which means that God is constraint by time.

Nor does it seem that (3) follows (2), or that (4) follows (3). Or really that (6) follows from (5).

(3) follows from (1) and sorry for not being very clear. (4) follows from (2) and (3). (6) follows from (5) because we cannot experience past and future.

Maybe I’m missing something but I think your terms are pretty vague. Am I interpreting this correctly?

*1) God is in a state of timelessness *
Meaning: God is outside our timeline? God does not change with time? God does not experience any time? Somewhat ambiguous premise.

That is correct.

• 1. This means he has only one eternal act*
     Meaning: Depends on your interpretation of (1). I suppose this follows if God does not experience time.

Correct.

• 1. This means that creation is actual*
     Meaning: I’m not sure what this means. Does it mean that creation exists in God’s “present”? Sure.

Hence it has to exist in our presence too.

• 1. This means that past, now and future should be actual*
     Meaning: To God, sure. Everything on our timeline could be in his “present”

Yes.

• 1. We however only experience now*
     Sure

Good.

• 1. This means that only now is actual*
     To us.

Good.

• 1. (4) and (6) contradict each other hence a the act creation is mutually separate from act existence*
     This sentence is very hard to parse. If I’m interpreting it correctly, I don’t think it follows. From God’s perspective, all events could be happening immediately, but we could experience time differently.

Yup. But there is a tension here.

• 1. To resolve the conflict one has to assume that there exist a boundary which is neither timeless nor time bound*
     I don’t see how this follows at all.

You have to somehow resolve the previous tension. The game is over if there is no boundary.

• 1. This boundary cannot ontologically exist*
     This needs to be proven.

We have not the third option. Things are either time bound or timeless.

• 1. Hence (1) is wrong*

9 and 10 need a lot of support before 11 can be shown.

I hope it is clear by now.

 

[Bahman]

I can create a sort of universe using a computer program, wherein the entities in that program could experience time very differently from myself. For example, you can create a program that simulates population dynamics, and project how a population given certain constraints would change over a 100 year period. You could calculate the end population and the beginning population virtually instantly. In that case, the creator of the simulation could “experience” its beginning and end simultaneously.

Are you in state of timeless!?

 

[davidv]

Are you in state of timeless!?

What is the “state of timeless”?

 

[Bahman]

What is the “state of timeless”?

A changeless state.

 

[davidv]

A changeless state.

Does such a state exist? Where?

 

[Bahman]

Does such a state exist?

Yes. It is state of God.

Where?

I don’t know where your God resides, nowhere if not Heaven.

 

[Bahman]

And who take care of changes?