Why do you confuse the creator with the creation?
- An ephemeral creation has a beginning
- This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence can be differentiated
- God is timeless
- Timeless state is a state that before and after cannot be differentiated
- This means that there exist not a reference point from God point of view
- From (2) and (5) we can deduce that timeless God cannot create an ephemeral universe
I don’t think so. What do you mean?Why do you confuse the creator with the creation?
The problem as I see it is the reduction of particles to the point where we can’t determine if the energy preceded the mass or the mass produced the energy. But there’s nothing left at that point but energy reduced to as you see in all the articles “vibration” which they correctly deduce as the result of energy =frequency. Then if thats not enough universal gravity comes into question with the electromagnetic field which exists with the frequency and apparently throughout the universe.
- An ephemeral creation has a beginning
- This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence can be differentiated
- God is timeless
- Timeless state is a state that before and after cannot be differentiated
- This means that there exist not a reference point from God point of view
- From (2) and (5) we can deduce that timeless God cannot create an ephemeral universe
I think the key question is what is the beginning when we consider that we are consciousness, primary and without beginning.The problem as I see it is the reduction of particles to the point where we can’t determine if the energy preceded the mass or the mass produced the energy. But there’s nothing left at that point but energy reduced to as you see in all the articles “vibration” which they correctly deduce as the result of energy =frequency. Then if thats not enough universal gravity comes into question with the electromagnetic field which exists with the frequency and apparently throughout the universe.
Course I think the energy jump started the entire circuit thats interconnected but with consciousness, for lack of better words its hard to assume anything is random but intelligent. The energy without consciousess is just as debatable.
Does seem to be the conversation on a few threads. Aside from that there are a few other conceptual realities such as love and morality that definitely can’t be equated on the black board. I have to believe they are universal. Nothing else indicates otherwise. Just as there is a math reality to explain much, there is a spiritual morality and love which can’t be but universally explained.I think the key question is what is the beginning when we consider that we are consciousness, primary and without beginning.
You must attribute the limits of the creation (has a beginning) on the creator, which not true, in order for the conclusion to follow from the premises.I don’t think so. What do you mean?
Why do we need the concept of God if universe is eternal?You must attribute the limits of the creation (has a beginning) on the creator, which not true, in order for the conclusion to follow from the premises.
In other words, very faulty logic.
Bahman,
- An ephemeral creation has a beginning
- This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence can be differentiated
- God is timeless
- Timeless state is a state that before and after cannot be differentiated
- This means that there exist not a reference point from God point of view
- From (2) and (5) we can deduce that timeless God cannot create an ephemeral universe
Thanks for your advice.Bahman,
You should spend more time developing your “logical” arguments. Don’t you think your hand is too fast?
No-one. The key question is whether this point exists or not? Yes: It cannot be related to an creation act from a timeless God as it was illustrated. No: Thanks, universe is eternal hence there is no need for the very concept of God.In your original post, # 2), please say who would differentiate the existence from the non-existence?
Best regards
JuanFlorencio
An eternal universe requires a creator.Why do we need the concept of God if universe is eternal?
No, it doesn’t need. Since it has no beginning.An eternal universe requires a creator.
Doesn’t this simply differentiate G-d from His creation: that is, G-d is eternal but His creation is ephemeral? I don’t think it necessarily means that the timeless G-d cannot make contact and interact with His creation, but only that they are distinct (not separated) from one another.
- An ephemeral creation has a beginning
- This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence can be differentiated
- God is timeless
- Timeless state is a state that before and after cannot be differentiated
- This means that there exist not a reference point from God point of view
- From (2) and (5) we can deduce that timeless God cannot create an ephemeral universe
Again Bahman, you went too fast. It seems you are talking about a possible beginning of the universe, though in a very confusing way. Your question would be: does the universe have a beginning or not? There would be no alternative, right?Thanks for your advice.
No-one. The key question is whether this point exists or not? Yes: It cannot be related to an creation act from a timeless God as it was illustrated. No: Thanks, universe is eternal hence there is no need for the very concept of God.
No matter. It still needs a creator.No, it doesn’t need. Since it has no beginning.
No. This means that the act creation is impossible unless God is bounded to time.Doesn’t this simply differentiate G-d from His creation: that is, G-d is eternal but His creation is ephemeral? I don’t think it necessarily means that the timeless G-d cannot make contact and interact with His creation, but only that they are distinct (not separated) from one another.
Good. This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence are separated, so called creation point. In simple word, you have non-existnece on one side and existence on the other side.Again Bahman, you went too fast. It seems you are talking about a possible beginning of the universe, though in a very confusing way. Your question would be: does the universe have a beginning or not? There would be no alternative, right?
Let’s suppose first you assume the affirmative; you would say:
What else, Bahman?
- The universe had a beginning.
JuanFlorencio
Bahman,Good. This means that there exist a reference point at which the non-existence and existence are separated, so called creation point. In simple word, you have non-existnece on one side and existence on the other side.
Can we go further?
The rest will be:Bahman,
This just means that we are considering first the affirmative. Please, read my post again, and let me know what your other premises would be?
Regards
JuanFlorencio
Well, finally you did not use the first alternative of the premise “the universe had a beginning”. Anyway, I guess your argument would be:The rest will be:
- God is timeless
- Timeless state is a state that before and after cannot be differentiated (you could say that timeless state is a state that there is no before and no after within)
- This means that there exist not a reference point from God point of view
- From (2) and (5) we can deduce that timeless God cannot create an ephemeral universe