Dilemma on babies

[StrugglingC]

Hello. I am a working mom and wife with a husband and 4 kids. I have been feeling down as I started thinking about possibilities of or lack of additional babies to our family. We are a belnded family. My husband’s job doesn’t pay him much. I am working full time. We are thinking about moving to a nearby area soon. My husband and I are both in our late 30’s.

So, we have been using NFP to avoid pregnancies after the last baby as our work situations are not as stable as we would like and financially very tight. My husband and I had discussions over actively and intentionally avoiding vs trying for another baby. I would like to have another baby. I have been feeling very strongly about it and the thought of not having any more babies kind of gets to me lately. My husband would like 5 more if we could (not that I can endure that many pregnancies…). However, with the circumstances we are in, we have sort of decided not to try for any more for now. But then a few days ago he questioned this decision by saying “Is it right to not want any more because of finances?” (we are not rich but don’t struggle to put food on the table or provide basic necessities for our kids). “Are we even supposed to NOT WANT any more?” “As Catholics, aren’t we supposed to be having sex more often than once a month?”

As you may be able to tell, we both feel guilty about intentionally avoiding pregnancies although we are in a tough situation. My husband talks about saints living in poverty with lots of kids. We know we will make it work if we happen to be blessed with another baby but we aren’t having any relations during my fertile days at this point.

Is there anyone in a similar situation? What should we do? Are we not trying hard enough as Catholics by avoiding pregnancies? What should I do with this urge for another baby besides praying on it?

 

[liturgy96]

From what I learned in Theology class, it is not wrong to not want a pregnancy for valid reasons such as health of one or both parents, financial difficulties and the like. It isn’t about not trying hard as Catholics; it is simply wanting to provide the best for God’s gifts to a marriage I even remember my professor saying that if God wanted every parent to simply give life, then He would make women fertile all the time. This is clearly not the case and in fact, is the basis for NFP.

As for what to do besides praying, I really do not know. I am single and it may take quite some time before I marry, if I do so. I’m still discerning my vocation in life. My first thought was to adopt, but given your financial circumstances, that may not be the best option. I guess the most prudent course for now is to focus on stabilizing your financial situation so you can try for another child. And keep the lines of communication open, especially during trying times like this. Your spouse may have good ideas on job security and about what is it that moves you to have more children, other concerns and the like.

I will pray for you

 

[1ke]

Hello. I am a working mom and wife with a husband and 4 kids. I have been feeling down as I started thinking about possibilities of or lack of additional babies to our family. We are a belnded family. My husband’s job doesn’t pay him much. I am working full time. We are thinking about moving to a nearby area soon. My husband and I are both in our late 30’s.

So, we have been using NFP to avoid pregnancies after the last baby as our work situations are not as stable as we would like and financially very tight. My husband and I had discussions over actively and intentionally avoiding vs trying for another baby. I would like to have another baby. I have been feeling very strongly about it and the thought of not having any more babies kind of gets to me lately. My husband would like 5 more if we could (not that I can endure that many pregnancies…). However, with the circumstances we are in, we have sort of decided not to try for any more for now. But then a few days ago he questioned this decision by saying “Is it right to not want any more because of finances?” (we are not rich but don’t struggle to put food on the table or provide basic necessities for our kids). “Are we even supposed to NOT WANT any more?” “As Catholics, aren’t we supposed to be having sex more often than once a month?”

As you may be able to tell, we both feel guilty about intentionally avoiding pregnancies although we are in a tough situation. My husband talks about saints living in poverty with lots of kids. We know we will make it work if we happen to be blessed with another baby but we aren’t having any relations during my fertile days at this point.

Is there anyone in a similar situation? What should we do? Are we not trying hard enough as Catholics by avoiding pregnancies? What should I do with this urge for another baby besides praying on it?

God bless you for your generosity towards life and children. What a wonderful example you are to the world and to other Catholics.

When and whether to have another child is always a decision made between the two of you and in prayer and discernment.

It sounds like you both want another child. Don’t make it about whether or not you are a “good enough” Catholic (you are an outstanding example of generosity to life) but whether or not you feel called to welcome a child at this time.

In general, we are not called to impoverish ourselves to continue having children. We are not called to have babies until we drop. But we are called to be saints. And in specific cases, individual people might be called to a life of poverty. Individual people might be called to have large families. Individual people might be called to certain sacrifices and certain joys that others are not.

We cannot say what you are called to. You and your husband are doing a fine job of discerning. My advice is stop thinking about what other people would do, what people think, etc, and focus on what the two of you WANT to do.

 

[Blessedwithfive]

Hello. I am a working mom and wife with a husband and 4 kids. I have been feeling down as I started thinking about possibilities of or lack of additional babies to our family. We are a belnded family. My husband’s job doesn’t pay him much. I am working full time. We are thinking about moving to a nearby area soon. My husband and I are both in our late 30’s.

So, we have been using NFP to avoid pregnancies after the last baby as our work situations are not as stable as we would like and financially very tight. My husband and I had discussions over actively and intentionally avoiding vs trying for another baby. I would like to have another baby. I have been feeling very strongly about it and the thought of not having any more babies kind of gets to me lately. My husband would like 5 more if we could (not that I can endure that many pregnancies…). However, with the circumstances we are in, we have sort of decided not to try for any more for now. But then a few days ago he questioned this decision by saying “Is it right to not want any more because of finances?” (we are not rich but don’t struggle to put food on the table or provide basic necessities for our kids). “Are we even supposed to NOT WANT any more?” “UAs Catholics, aren’t we supposed to be having sex more often than once a month?”

As you may be able to tell, we both feel guilty about intentionally avoiding pregnancies although we are in a tough situation. My husband talks about saints living in poverty with lots of kids. We know we will make it work if we happen to be blessed with another baby but we aren’t having any relations during my fertile days at this point.

Is there anyone in a similar situation? What should we do? Are we not trying hard enough as Catholics by avoiding pregnancies? What should I do with this urge for another baby besides praying on it?

I feel for you. I remember very clearly the first and only time I admitted that I didn’t WANT any more children. I have five and four of them were teenagers at the time. I felt very guilty and took this concern to a priest who in his wisdom simply said that it was ok not to WANT children due to the mental toll they were taking. I would however have to accept children with love on the off chance I became pregnant(which was never a concern of mine).
I didn’t have any more children. So far in my life, nothing has been as hard to do as raising teens. My advice, four is good. Save some energy for what lies ahead…

 

[Convert_in_99]

God bless you for your generosity towards life and children. What a wonderful example you are to the world and to other Catholics.

When and whether to have another child is always a decision made between the two of you and in prayer and discernment.

It sounds like you both want another child. Don’t make it about whether or not you are a “good enough” Catholic (you are an outstanding example of generosity to life) but whether or not you feel called to welcome a child at this time.

In general, we are not called to impoverish ourselves to continue having children. We are not called to have babies until we drop. But we are called to be saints. And in specific cases, individual people might be called to a life of poverty. Individual people might be called to have large families. Individual people might be called to certain sacrifices and certain joys that others are not.

We cannot say what you are called to. You and your husband are doing a fine job of discerning. My advice is stop thinking about what other people would do, what people think, etc, and focus on what the two of you WANT to do.

I agree wholeheartedly!

You are a VERY generous couple, and there is no doubting your openness to life. Some couples feel called to have babies as often as God gives them, and this is very beautiful and noble, but it is certainly NOT required. There is no guilt in using NFP to postpone a pregnancy for a time, or indefinitely in serious instances. Your emotional health and well being is certainly a serious reason to postpone a pregnancy through NFP. Please feel no guilt in choosing the holy, self-sacrificial, loving path of NFP if you need to. Be at peace in whichever path you choose! God bless you and your husband! Thank you so very much for all you do in promoting the Gospel of life through your love, your marriage and your family!

 

[Xantippe]

Hello. I am a working mom and wife with a husband and 4 kids. I have been feeling down as I started thinking about possibilities of or lack of additional babies to our family. We are a belnded family. My husband’s job doesn’t pay him much. I am working full time. We are thinking about moving to a nearby area soon. My husband and I are both in our late 30’s.

So, we have been using NFP to avoid pregnancies after the last baby as our work situations are not as stable as we would like and financially very tight. My husband and I had discussions over actively and intentionally avoiding vs trying for another baby. I would like to have another baby. I have been feeling very strongly about it and the thought of not having any more babies kind of gets to me lately. My husband would like 5 more if we could (not that I can endure that many pregnancies…). However, with the circumstances we are in, we have sort of decided not to try for any more for now. But then a few days ago he questioned this decision by saying “Is it right to not want any more because of finances?” (we are not rich but don’t struggle to put food on the table or provide basic necessities for our kids). “Are we even supposed to NOT WANT any more?” “As Catholics, aren’t we supposed to be having sex more often than once a month?”

As you may be able to tell, we both feel guilty about intentionally avoiding pregnancies although we are in a tough situation. My husband talks about saints living in poverty with lots of kids. We know we will make it work if we happen to be blessed with another baby but we aren’t having any relations during my fertile days at this point.

Is there anyone in a similar situation? What should we do? Are we not trying hard enough as Catholics by avoiding pregnancies? What should I do with this urge for another baby besides praying on it?

Here’s a thought:

Figure out what a next pregnancy/child will cost you ($500 a month more in daycare or whatever) and start setting that aside in savings.

That’s even a fairly lax approach, as it is also possible that you would find yourself unable to work through much of your next pregnancy–it is not uncommon for pregnancies to become more difficult with age. Or you might find yourself unwilling leave a baby in childcare and work–if so, your income might drop substantially. Even without that, there will undoubtedly be incremental increases in grocery expenses. I have records, and we found that when our youngest was about 3, our grocery costs shot up $200 a month over previous expenses.

I feel like it’s very easy to talk big about a large family and poverty–when you’re not actually doing it. This experiment of saving the money you expect to spend, while a little artificial, will demonstrate how feasible for your family to live on less. Even just 3 months of saving the extra will be informative.

 

[bitterhope]

God bless you for your generosity towards life and children. What a wonderful example you are to the world and to other Catholics.

When and whether to have another child is always a decision made between the two of you and in prayer and discernment.

It sounds like you both want another child. Don’t make it about whether or not you are a “good enough” Catholic (you are an outstanding example of generosity to life) but whether or not you feel called to welcome a child at this time.

In general, we are not called to impoverish ourselves to continue having children. We are not called to have babies until we drop. But we are called to be saints. And in specific cases, individual people might be called to a life of poverty. Individual people might be called to have large families. Individual people might be called to certain sacrifices and certain joys that others are not.

We cannot say what you are called to. You and your husband are doing a fine job of discerning. My advice is stop thinking about what other people would do, what people think, etc, and focus on what the two of you WANT to do.

This is the best post I have ever read on CAF.

Please ignore everything and everyone else. Pray. Listen to God. Do what He is calling your family to do. Forget about all the other people in your life and on the internet think is best for your family. Follow God’s will for your family instead.

 

[Usige]

If you are on the fence, my best advice is to ask the Lord for guidance.

Your husband sounds like me and my wife before we conceived our 7th child. We went back and forth on how open to children we should be. For us the concern wasn’t money right now, but our ages (we are both 40+) and what the future would hold. I finally went to adoration and asked God to help provide guidance and then went home waiting for a niggling of a sign. When I woke up in the morning my wife and I talked and decided fairly quickly that we have no control over the future and can only do the best to set them up with no guarantees on what will happen in the next 20 years. Spending that hour plus in prayer let me quiet my heart and look at what was my anxiety, societal pressures against “another baby”, and if it was a sense of pride at having more children. In the end we simply said we won’t try to achieve or avoid pregnancy. About 10 days later we had our answer.

None of us can tell you what to do, but I urge you to include prayer in the decision. Even in my own marriage I sometimes have sought advice from multiple sources without turning to the most obvious place; our Heavenly Father. While He has yet to leave me a memo on what to do (despite my having asking for written instructions on repeated occasions ), He has never given me bad council.

 

[bitterhope]

Here’s a thought:

Figure out what a next pregnancy/child will cost you ($500 a month more in daycare or whatever) and start setting that aside in savings.

That’s even a fairly lax approach, as it is also possible that you would find yourself unable to work through much of your next pregnancy–it is not uncommon for pregnancies to become more difficult with age. Or you might find yourself unwilling leave a baby in childcare and work–if so, your income might drop substantially. Even without that, there will undoubtedly be incremental increases in grocery expenses. I have records, and we found that when our youngest was about 3, our grocery costs shot up $200 a month over previous expenses.

I feel like it’s very easy to talk big about a large family and poverty–when you’re not actually doing it. This experiment of saving the money you expect to spend, while a little artificial, will demonstrate how feasible for your family to live on less. Even just 3 months of saving the extra will be informative.

I have lived in a big family in poverty both as a daughter and as a mom. It is not nearly as hard or as bad as people on this forum make it out to be. I have come to realize I prefer this life than reading about all the troubles people with far more income complain and cry about here. I feel bad for people when I see the trouble they have with money issues and materialistic goals. I have become annoyed at poverty and large families being blamed for issues created by lack of care or mental illness or poor parenting when those same issues happen in all family income levels and family sizes. If a couple prays and follows God’s lead for their life there will be struggles but He will sustain them. It will be worth it in the end. Not all families are called down the same path. Some will be large, some small, some rich and some poor, and most will be somewhere in between. But all of us are called to align our wills to God’s will in our lives.

 

[3DOCTORS]

What Xantippe, Usige, and bitterhope said.

My instinct as I was reading the thread was - relax and discern for the next few months, pray and don’t feel pressured. It sounds as if your circumstances aren’t dire either financially or healthwise, so that’s a great blessing. But if you have hesitations that it’s the right time, take a little more time to just sit with it. You’re doing your NFP with an open to life attitude, that seems reasonable. After those few months go by, you’ll either be more certain you want to actively try for another baby, or postpone longer. Or you’ll realize your family is most likely complete though only God knows for sure. Or you’ll be getting out the crib, not without ambivalence but trusting that all shall be well.

 

[Xantippe]

I have lived in a big family in poverty both as a daughter and as a mom. It is not nearly as hard or as bad as people on this forum make it out to be. I have come to realize I prefer this life than reading about all the troubles people with far more income complain and cry about here. I feel bad for people when I see the trouble they have with money issues and materialistic goals. I have become annoyed at poverty and large families being blamed for issues created by lack of care or mental illness or poor parenting when those same issues happen in all family income levels and family sizes. If a couple prays and follows God’s lead for their life there will be struggles but He will sustain them. It will be worth it in the end. Not all families are called down the same path. Some will be large, some small, some rich and some poor, and most will be somewhere in between. But all of us are called to align our wills to God’s will in our lives.

If it is possible for them on their income to pay for childcare/formula (if needed)/extra food/diapers/wipes and they can start living that lifestyle right now and see how they like it. Likewise, if they can live without her income, they can start saving her entire income right now.

I think it would be a very valuable experiment and reality check.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s a non-financial discernment idea.

Give your husband more opportunities to take care of all four children by himself. When we had our last baby, I had nearly all of baby duty, and my husband had big kid duty when he was home, which is a very natural division of labor.

Having your husband do an outing with all of the children every week or two might be helpful. You can use the time to catch up house stuff.

Also, this is probably a good time to work on increasing the older children’s independence and home skills.

The physical consequences of pregnancy (especially in the older woman) can be unpredictable. During my last pregnancy (at 37), for instance, I had a short bedrest plus a six month period where I was unable to do laundry. That was VERY unexpected.

Also, bear in mind that the process becomes more and more glitchy and prone to disappointment with increasing maternal age. You’ll find different numbers all over the internet, but here’s one set to give you an idea:

35-37 16% miscarriage
38-39 22%
40-41 33%
42-43 45%
44-46 60%

advancedfertility.com/age-miscarriage.htm

 

[Xantippe]

In a thread about two years ago, the OP was feeling really socially isolated, burnt out and overworked.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=866123

OP, do you feel like you’ve resolved the issues that you talked about in that thread?

 

[MarkInOregon]

I have lived in a big family in poverty both as a daughter and as a mom. It is not nearly as hard or as bad as people on this forum make it out to be. I have come to realize I prefer this life than reading about all the troubles people with far more income complain and cry about here. I feel bad for people when I see the trouble they have with money issues and materialistic goals. I have become annoyed at poverty and large families being blamed for issues created by lack of care or mental illness or poor parenting when those same issues happen in all family income levels and family sizes. If a couple prays and follows God’s lead for their life there will be struggles but He will sustain them. It will be worth it in the end. Not all families are called down the same path. Some will be large, some small, some rich and some poor, and most will be somewhere in between. But all of us are called to align our wills to God’s will in our lives.

Well said.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[StrugglingC]

Thank you all who have responded to my post and prayed for me and my family. Thank you so very much. I really appreciate all of the opinions, comments, suggestions and prayers. I think I will need to make some time to go to adoration and spend much time praying on this matter. My husband and I will also need to figure out through prayer and discussion if this urge to want another baby is God’s calling or just coming from our own selfish reasons.

One of you found my previous thread and asked if my issues were resolved. Mostly yes. Since then I have left the toxic work place and found another job elsewhere. That was one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life. I still face challenges and struggles at work but nothing compared to what I had to endure for the last few years. I remember writing that there was no way to get away from the bully at work. Well, I finally had the courage to leave a year after that. I was at the point where I would have totally fallen apart if I didn’t leave.

Thank you everyone again for all the encouraging comments and thoughtful insight. I will read them over and over and seek God’s guidance.

 

[bitterhope]

In a thread about two years ago, the OP was feeling really socially isolated, burnt out and overworked.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=866123

OP, do you feel like you’ve resolved the issues that you talked about in that thread?

Why do people do this? That is from over a year ago, nearly two years. Why is it that posters here like to remind people of hard times they’ve had in the past like that? I’ve seen this a lot. Many people go through hard times and survive intact and often come out stronger than before. It’s usually through our trials that we find our place in the world. I can somewhat understand a week or even a month earlier, but nearly two years earlier?

This is why I can’t ever see asking for advice on CAF or even prayers. Someone is surely going to remind me of a dark spot in my life later on if I do. Just imagine all the popular “rants” being dragged up in a few years by other posters, or even worse by the kids and spouses that are being ranted about. How is that at all helpful?

 

[heidi_storage]

Why do people do this? That is from over a year ago, nearly two years. Why is it that posters here like to remind people of hard times they’ve had in the past like that? I’ve seen this a lot. Many people go through hard times and survive intact and often come out stronger than before. It’s usually through our trials that we find our place in the world. I can somewhat understand a week or even a month earlier, but nearly two years earlier?

This is why I can’t ever see asking for advice on CAF or even prayers. Someone is surely going to remind me of a dark spot in my life later on if I do. Just imagine all the popular “rants” being dragged up in a few years by other posters, or even worse by the kids and spouses that are being ranted about. How is that at all helpful?

Not to speak for Xantippe, but I imagine that in this case it’s because adding a new baby can increase stress, sleeplessness, work, and feelings of isolation or depression; if the OP didn’t resolve the situation, then she’s at risk for a very bad time when the new baby comes. Also, I think Xantippe’s history has made her a little gun-shy about adding lots of children to the family–excuse me if I’m incorrect about this, Xantippe.

That said: I had EXACTLY the reaction you did when I read this post.

 

[Xantippe]

One of you found my previous thread and asked if my issues were resolved. Mostly yes. Since then I have left the toxic work place and found another job elsewhere. That was one of the best decisions I have ever made in my life. I still face challenges and struggles at work but nothing compared to what I had to endure for the last few years. I remember writing that there was no way to get away from the bully at work. Well, I finally had the courage to leave a year after that. I was at the point where I would have totally fallen apart if I didn’t leave.

Very good!

 

[Xantippe]

Why do people do this? That is from over a year ago, nearly two years. Why is it that posters here like to remind people of hard times they’ve had in the past like that? I’ve seen this a lot. Many people go through hard times and survive intact and often come out stronger than before. It’s usually through our trials that we find our place in the world. I can somewhat understand a week or even a month earlier, but nearly two years earlier?

This is why I can’t ever see asking for advice on CAF or even prayers. Someone is surely going to remind me of a dark spot in my life later on if I do. Just imagine all the popular “rants” being dragged up in a few years by other posters, or even worse by the kids and spouses that are being ranted about. How is that at all helpful?

The OP just told us that she was able to leave her bad job and is doing much better.

That’s helpful information, I think, with regard to giving her advice.

I think it is reasonable to look up posting history, because people often offer off-target advice when they don’t realize that the issue is a chronic one that has been going on year after year without improvement. Or, occasionally, I find that some CAF women (but probably not our OP) cycle regularly between WANNA BABY RIGHT NOW and CAN’T COPE!!! People who have that kind of cycle sometimes need to be reminded what the other half of their cycle looks like, either when they are panicking or when they are jonesing for a baby.

CAF is a community and communities have memories, like it or not.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The OP just told us that she was able to leave her bad job and is doing much better.

That’s helpful information, I think, with regard to giving her advice.

I think it is reasonable to look up posting history, because people often offer off-target advice when they don’t realize that the issue is a chronic one that has been going on year after year without improvement. Or, occasionally, I find that some CAF women (but probably not our OP) cycle regularly between WANNA BABY RIGHT NOW and CAN’T COPE!!! People who have that kind of cycle sometimes need to be reminded what the other half of their cycle looks like, either when they are panicking or when they are jonesing for a baby.

CAF is a community and communities have memories, like it or not.

I see your point. Maybe just refer to the thread without posting a direct link? The OP will know what you mean, and others participating in the thread can always look it up.

I do think that past history is important to keep in mind.

I’ll use myself as an example, my son has a brain injury. So pretend I ask for advice like, “My son is doing ------ please advise.” I necessarily don’t want to put in all about his brain injury. So someone might come in and say something that wouldn’t apply to my son at all, and be insensitive to the issue.