Dilemma with Catholic Youth Group

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tax_Collector14
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tax_Collector14

Guest
Hi, everybody, I’m a long-time Catholic Answers/ETWN Radio listener and first-time poster, married father of 3 young ladies. As I’m sure most of you are doing, I’m trying to raise my girls in the best environment that I can. They all attended Catholic parochial school until this year, when my oldest entered a public (charter) high school nearby (the reason we elected not to send her to the Catholic high school was due to nothing else other than the ungodly workload, wealthy values, and otherwise apparent modern-leaning environment of it from what I observed, but I digress)…in any event, to our dilemma:

Having elected to public school option over the Catholic one, we agreed that she should be involved in our parish senior youth group…well, to our dismay, we tried the youth group and found it to be warm, friendly, very involved in all of those things we feel our 9th grader needs except for the fact that there is a older young lady member who, for lack of better description, we just found out was a female. She dresses and talks like a young man, her style is teenager-boyish, and the hardest part? She seems to be very involved in the youth group and very friendly with my 14-year old…

So most of you can probably see the dilemma my wife and I are faced with: at some point in today’s society, our daughters (and yours) will be faced with a similar scenario…as a parent, do we simply watch everything like the KGB (or NSA!) and keep the lines of communication open with our daughter, or do we drop-kick contact with this youth group altogether? They’ve already exchanged phone numbers and are texting…it goes without saying that I am judging this other young lady, but quite frankly, we are dealing with powers and principalities not of this world with that agenda these days…if I don’t protect and guide my daughter I don’t know who will.
 
Specifically, what are you concerned will happen if your daughter interacts with this girl? Are you concerned that she will teach your daughter to be a lesbian? In my opinion, if you have done your best to raise your daughter with values, she should be able to interact with other young people who have other world views and treat them with kindness and charity without her values being changed. Aside from that, you’ve already admitted that you are jumping to conclusions about this young person’s intentions and for all you know, God may have brought she and your daughter together for a very good reason.
 
Hi, things are really going SOUTH. Be assured that you
and your daughters will be in my prayers, thanks for
the post, it shows you are committed to your daughters’
upbringing!👍
 
Tax_Collector14 said:
Hi, everybody, I’m a long-time Catholic Answers/ETWN Radio listener and first-time poster, married father of 3 young ladies. As I’m sure most of you are doing, I’m trying to raise my girls in the best environment that I can. They all attended Catholic parochial school until this year, when my oldest entered a public (charter) high school nearby (the reason we elected not to send her to the Catholic high school was due to nothing else other than the ungodly workload, wealthy values, and otherwise apparent modern-leaning environment of it from what I observed, but I digress)…in any event, to our dilemma:

Having elected to public school option over the Catholic one, we agreed that she should be involved in our parish senior youth group…well, to our dismay, we tried the youth group and found it to be warm, friendly, very involved in all of those things we feel our 9th grader needs except for the fact that there is a older young lady member who, for lack of better description, we just found out was a female. She dresses and talks like a young man, her style is teenager-boyish, and the hardest part? She seems to be very involved in the youth group and very friendly with my 14-year old…

So most of you can probably see the dilemma my wife and I are faced with: at some point in today’s society, our daughters (and yours) will be faced with a similar scenario…as a parent, do we simply watch everything like the KGB (or NSA!) and keep the lines of communication open with our daughter, or do we drop-kick contact with this youth group altogether? They’ve already exchanged phone numbers and are texting…it goes without saying that I am judging this other young lady, but quite frankly, we are dealing with powers and principalities not of this world with that agenda these days…if I don’t protect and guide my daughter I don’t know who will.
Click to expand...
i understand your concerns, but perhaps you might be overracting a little bit?

if this young lady is in a cahotlic youth group, she must know about what the church teaches concerning homosexuality, i know basically everyone does, it’s one of our branded common knowledge titles. perhaps, just maybe, there are things you don’t know about her. maybe it’s something she is struggling with and trying to vercome. maybe she is living a chaste life and intends to keep it that way even if her outward appearance doesn’t suggest it. believe me, i’ve known a few people who have goen down that road and they want nothing to do with the church anymore. so that will either happen sooner or later with this girl or else she is ok. and even if she does have an agenda to try and change the church’s mind about it, we don’t have to be afraid of that, it won’t happen.

as for your daughter, if she knows her faith well and you have taught her sufficiently, she will be ok. you cna’t possibly shelter her from every kind of sin out there. we seem to be bombarded on all sides by it.

i wil pray for you and your family
 
I suggest you get to know this girl before you assume things about her. Outward appearance doesn’t tell us everything.

Spend a little time getting to know the youth program leaders and the other kids.
 
Mrs. Sally has it right on. Firstly, you assume she may be a lesbian, and that renders you uncomfortable.

Is she? Perhaps. But certainly not enough information to deem her so.

And what exactly is it teaching your daughter to have her negate a healthy friendship just because of your own insecurities? Is there any indication your daughter herself might be a lesbian? It takes two lesbians to tango.

I believe you are being rather rash. Girls can be tomboys. And girls even if they happen to be gay…can be struggling themselves and not be choosing to engage in those behaviors. She goes to youth group and has found a friend in your daughter. There is nothing wrong in their friendship.
 
You sound like a good father who is concerned. I would be concerned as well if I were you. You described this other individual as an ‘older’ young lady. That I think is the part that would send off the most red flags to me. I don’t know by how much older this young lady is, but either way I think it is unusual for an older young person to go out of their way to be friendly with a 14 year old. I think if you came here with a story about some creepy older young guy were sniffing around your 14 year old daughter, I think everyone would agree for you to be of the utmost vigilance at least.
I think you are doing the right thing in remaining involved. I would ask your daughter questions from time to time about this person in passing and I would pay close attention to how evasive or non evasive she was in answering.
I would be worried as you are that this is a potential situation where an older female is attempting to groom my young daughter. I have read cases where woman in the late 20’s have impersonated teen aged boys to make contact with young girls. And if someone were struggling with SSA, I don’t think they would want to put themselves into temptation by surrounding themselves with what tempts them.
Be a dad and be vigilant. Just keep your wits about you and your eyes open. I also think you should let your wife to a role in overseeing this as your wife is a symbol of true femininity so she might provide a better counter.

And of course, she could just be a young lady going through some phase and has absolutely no intentions toward your daughter. Of course that is possible. Just keep your eyes open, ask questions, and treat this situation as you would any other where you are looking out for your daughter.

And also. Sometimes the best way to deal with these things is to instead of providing prohibitions on your daughter, it would be better to encourage the good. Instead of being rash and severing the relationship, perhaps you should reach out to this young lady and invite her to your home for dinners or possibly a Bible study so that YOU may build a relationship with her as can your wife. If she is receptive to your olive branch, then that is a very good sign. If this young lady seeks to avoid you and especially your wife but only seeks to have your daughter alone, that could be a negative sign. You know better than any of us how your daughter is and what this situation is made of, so I wish you the best.
 
Your child is old enough to be exposed to different kinds of people and know what is right and what is wrong. In fact, I think having an open discussion about it is a good idea.

On another note, there is a 30ish woman at my parish who literally has a buzzcut, dresses very manly (in my opinion) and looks manly. I found myself really judging her at a recent event. I was thinking to myself that she was clearly not in agreement with our teachings, etc. etc. Imagine my surprise when her husband walked in with her 3 kids and embraced her. SHAME ON ME for judging her. Judging is not in the teaching of the church either, and that is exactly what I was doing. Lesson learned.
 
Abundant said:
Your child is old enough to be exposed to different kinds of people and know what is right and what is wrong. In fact, I think having an open discussion about it is a good idea.

On another note, there is a 30ish woman at my parish who literally has a buzzcut, dresses very manly (in my opinion) and looks manly. I found myself really judging her at a recent event. I was thinking to myself that she was clearly not in agreement with our teachings, etc. etc. Imagine my surprise when her husband walked in with her 3 kids and embraced her. SHAME ON ME for judging her. Judging is not in the teaching of the church either, and that is exactly what I was doing. Lesson learned.
Click to expand...
I work for a school and we had a new couple come to the school to register their children and meet the teachers. One of the third grade teachers had a buzz cut hairdo and was wearing a teeshirt and jeans because it was field day. After they met, the father requested that their daughter be put in the other class because he didn’t want a lesbian teaching his daughter. He was then informed that the school had just hosted a St. Baldrick’s shaving event and the teacher was a married mother of three, one of which was a survivor. She had shaved her head in order to raise money for children’s cancer research.
 
Not all girls are into dressing in stereotypical girls clothing or having long hair and it doesn’t mean they are gay. I would get to know this girl before coming to a conclusion about her. I’m as girly as they come but I live in sweats and hoodies mostly given to me by my guy friends and heck men’s clothes are just more comfortable. I also clean up well when it comes to formal events.
 
Allegra said:
I work for a school and we had a new couple come to the school to register their children and meet the teachers. One of the third grade teachers had a buzz cut hairdo and was wearing a teeshirt and jeans because it was field day. After they met, the father requested that their daughter be put in the other class because he didn’t want a lesbian teaching his daughter. He was then informed that the school had just hosted a St. Baldrick’s shaving event and the teacher was a married mother of three, one of which was a survivor. She had shaved her head in order to raise money for children’s cancer research.
Click to expand...
The best thing that happened to me today was reading that post. This guy’s behavior would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Shaking my head…
 
Allegra said:
I work for a school and we had a new couple come to the school to register their children and meet the teachers. One of the third grade teachers had a buzz cut hairdo and was wearing a teeshirt and jeans because it was field day. After they met, the father requested that their daughter be put in the other class because he didn’t want a lesbian teaching his daughter. He was then informed that the school had just hosted a St. Baldrick’s shaving event and the teacher was a married mother of three, one of which was a survivor. She had shaved her head in order to raise money for children’s cancer research.
Click to expand...
I remember when my hair first started growing back after chemo It looked like a burr but now it is past my shoulders and I am sure that people thought some judgemental things about me.and I am as feminine as they come.
 
It’s a shame that people have to be judged on their looks.

I was treated that way too at times, when I had shorter hair and when I especially didn’t wear make-up. I would have people come right out and ask me if I was “gay” or if I was a “lesbian” because I wore my hair short and because I wouldn’t always wear make-up.

I could not imagine questioning another person like this, and invading their privacy.

Just because I wear my hair short, doesn’t make me–or anyone else for that matter–a lesbian. :rolleyes:
 
Tax_Collector14 said:
So most of you can probably see the dilemma my wife and I are faced with: at some point in today’s society, our daughters (and yours) will be faced with a similar scenario…as a parent, do we simply watch everything like the KGB (or NSA!) and keep the lines of communication open with our daughter, or do we drop-kick contact with this youth group altogether? They’ve already exchanged phone numbers and are texting…it goes without saying that I am judging this other young lady, but quite frankly, we are dealing with powers and principalities not of this world with that agenda these days…if I don’t protect and guide my daughter I don’t know who will.
Click to expand...
I’m offering my opinion here and I know it’s not the politically correct one. If you have that uneasy feeling… I’ve given my gut feelings a very high priority when it comes to my kids. You can’t know the whole of this young ladies story, but without putting any particular judgements on her or even making it obvious to your daughter, I’d feel it the right thing to do to subtlely steer her away from the group or steer her away from getting too friendly with the lady.

My kids are in their 20’s now but there were a number of times I felt the need to ‘steer’ them away from areas that gave me tummy flutters. One was a male teacher who organised the environment club at the high school who was urging the boys to join the club as ‘responsible stewardship’. He was arrested last year for having child pornography. That was 11 years since my boys were that age. Phewww. Gut feeling spot on.

The other was a very manipulative class friend of my daughters who was always asking my daughter over to her house. I’d met these parents once and the gut was atingle. It was the mother and a step father. Before the daughter had finished senior, she had moved into another house with the stepfather and they became ‘an item’. The school had the police involved and did their best to help the girl, but she was a very street savvy girl. I actually still pray for that girl and that family even though they are the most strange collection.

Anyway, I wouldn’t make an issue per se of it with your daughter, but just engage in some ‘steering’ in respect of your unease about the whole situation.

This is not an opinion based on prejudice but more an endorsement that gut feelings are an important thing in parenting.
 
I appreciate everybody taking time out of their days to respond to this, and I value all of your opinions…by and large it seems that most of you at least get where I’m coming from on this and for those of you who don’t, I would offer the following thoughts:

Homosexuality, I think we can (or should) all agree, is not an enviable thing to suffer…just as other crosses, but in particular, this one…it’s not good to have those temptations…it’s a lifelong struggle for those with SSA.

As for being contagious? In the biological sense, you’re correct, but as a young teen (my daughter is 14, the other girl is 17), your sexuality is still being formed…let’s face it, although most of us probably have the natural inclination towards the opposite sex, some of us can still be heavily shaped/influenced through our experience, good or bad. I would certainly contend that this is more the case with younger people than teens, however…given the fact that the culture is heavily pushing the gay agenda on all of us, as Catholic parents we must be extra vigilant and not be afraid to call a spade a spade…

So shame on me you say for judging? I’d rather have to answer to God for that than for nonchalantly standing by while anybody’s daughter potentially loses her soul.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
The best thing that happened to me today was reading that post. This guy’s behavior would be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Shaking my head…
Click to expand...
Why so scurrilous towards “gut feeling”? I’ve known of a few situations where parents ignored it because they thought it was silly, and the outcomes were not good (e.g. a dead child). If you want to be self-righteous about it, at least explain why your chosen response is superior.
LongingSoul said:
I’m offering my opinion here and I know it’s not the politically correct one. If you have that uneasy feeling… I’ve given my gut feelings a very high priority when it comes to my kids. You can’t know the whole of this young ladies story, but without putting any particular judgements on her or even making it obvious to your daughter, I’d feel it the right thing to do to subtlely steer her away from the group or steer her away from getting too friendly with the lady.

…]

Anyway, I wouldn’t make an issue per se of it with your daughter, but just engage in some ‘steering’ in respect of your unease about the whole situation.

This is not an opinion based on prejudice but more an endorsement that gut feelings are an important thing in parenting.
Click to expand...
Well, it seems that some parents just care less about their kids. There is a wide range of reasons for that (e.g. ignorance, upbringing, addiction, etc). I think it’s important to remember that avoiding what potentially cannot be undone is better than doing and hoping it can be undone.
felsguy said:
Besides, you do realize that lesbianism is not contagious:nope:
Click to expand...
Actually, starting with a paper in 2000 [1], one of the current leading theories is that homosexuality is caused by a pathogen. The argument starts with the recognition that homophobia (or homoaversion, as it should properly be called) is itself heritable, at least 54% [2], but homosexuality is only about 22% [3]. What this means is that homophobes are much more “born that way” than homosexuals themselves.

Furthermore, it’s too common to be mutational pressure (and we don’t see syndromic versions, as we would in that case), it’s not new, identical twins are usually discordant (~75% of the time), and it has a negative impact on reproductive success (e.g. dysgenic - a complete male disinterest in sex with females is always evolutionarily maladaptive (Cf. Japan)). There is no way it is adaptive, and it doesn’t exist in hunter-gatherers: you have to explain what it is you’re even talking about when you ask them. And, a prevalence just exceeding 2% for adult men and 1% for adult women [4], makes homosexuality an evolutionary anomaly.

The reason you’ve never heard of this side of things should be quite obvious.

+Sebastian
[1] Cochran, Gregory M., Paul W. Ewald, and Kyle D. Cochran. “Infectious causation of disease: an evolutionary perspective.” Perspectives in biology and medicine 43.3 (2000): 406-448.

[2] Verweij, Karin JH, et al. “Genetic and environmental influences on individual differences in attitudes toward homosexuality: an Australian twin study.” Behavior genetics 38.3 (2008): 257-265.

[3] Whitehead, Neil E. “Neither Genes nor Choice: Same-Sex Attraction Is Mostly a Unique Reaction to Environmental Factors.” Journal of Human Sexuality 3 (2011): 81-114.

[4] Laumann, Edward O., ed. The social organization of sexuality: Sexual practices in the United States. University of Chicago Press, 1994.
 
I advise you to be careful about misjudging the girl.

I’m a woman, and my best friend through all of my childhood and teen years was a girl who looked decidedly boyish. She wore her hair short, and once slacks were allowed in school, wore them everyday, and wore very masculine styles of pants and shirts.

When we were in college, we roomed together, and we constantly got comments about “lesbianism.”

The assertions were ridiculous.

Now we’re both 56, and we are still really good friends, and she has been happily married to a wonderful man for many years (and so have I!)…

She ended up going into the military and just retired after a long and storied career.

Not every girl who looks “masculine” is “dangerous.” My friend just happened to be a girl with masculine features and who preferred less “frilly” clothing. The few times she ever wore a dress, she looked kind of silly. The female military skirts were perfect on her. And as she has gotten older, she has settled into a very classic style of dressing for church and other formal events in which some styles of skirts, jackets, and dresses look very stunning and beautiful on her.

I suggest giving the girl a chance. Don’t dis the entire youth group because of one girl. Frankly, I think that you have more to worry about from certain teenagers who are involved in sinful lifestyles, but who LOOK very innocent and “religious.” These are the kinds of kids who are more likely to lead your daughter astray. Teach your daughter to be discerning and to look PAST the physical appearance and mannerisms, and to examine the “heart” of whoever she is friends with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top