dilemma

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anonymoususer

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I am in a serious dilemma in regards to my Catholic faith. On the one hand, I can’t stand the NO mass and think the Church has trended in the wrong direction since VII. From my perspective, the current Holy Father is trying to convert the Church into a type of red cross (in other words, the Church exists for humanitarian purposes only).

But then on the other hand, I don’t hear great things about SSPX and their relationship with the Vatican.

Not that it makes any difference, but my “normal” Catholic parish and the SSPX chapel are both walking distance from my home.

It’s getting to the point that I’m thinking of just throwing my hands up and walking away . . .

What to do? Sit at home and pray the Rosary and read scripture?
 
No. You don’t walk away. I can’t stand the NO Mass either, but I still go to it since there is nothing else around me . I would have to travel for hours to get to a Latin Mass. That’s just my lot in life and I deal with it. It is a valid Mass even if we don’t like it and that’s the MOST important thing.

I see you are in RCIA. I am a convert too and when I went to my first NO Mass I wanted to run away! I know how you feel. But, it’s not the right thing to do. You have to be in the Church to be saved.
 
You are making this whole business to be about you. It’s about God, not you. Try to resolve your prideful attitude with the Christian attitude of service (love) of others. Your task in life, the one thing that gives purpose to your existence is your service to the people whom God has placed in your life. This is your service to God.
I don’t know about you, but I go to Mass on Sunday because I am in love. In love with God. The prayers of any Mass are basically the same whether NO or TLM and are in praise and thanks to the Father. Get over the idea that it is supposed to please you. It’s not. It’s supposed to be pleasing to the Father.
PRAY the mass. Don’t listen to it. Love God, not yourself.

Reb Levi
 
I can sympathize with you. I preferred Benedict over Francis, but I’m still loyal to the Catholic Church. But, Pope Francis has not gone against any doctrine.

Try to find an FSSP parish nearby. They do amazing work. Again, I can sympathize with you because I strongly dislike the Ordinary Form. I can understand how you would prefer Gregorian chant over Christian pop music, receiving kneeling and on the tongue instead of in the hand, etc., though it is still a valid Sacrifice.

You can still go to an SSPX Mass every now and then, and it does fulfill the obligation. Though, you are strongly discouraged from receiving the Eucharist.

Going to an N.O. Mass is my Cross to bear, since there is no EF near me. It can be your Cross to bear too.

P.S., the Church has been a “Red Cross” since Day One. We aren’t a museum of saints, we are a hospital for sinners. Always has been, always will be. Pope Francis is just emphasizing that.
 
drafdog said:
You are making this whole business to be about you. It’s about God, not you. Try to resolve your prideful attitude with the Christian attitude of service (love) of others. Your task in life, the one thing that gives purpose to your existence is your service to the people whom God has placed in your life. This is your service to God.
I don’t know about you, but I go to Mass on Sunday because I am in love. In love with God. The prayers of any Mass are basically the same whether NO or TLM and are in praise and thanks to the Father. Get over the idea that it is supposed to please you. It’s not. It’s supposed to be pleasing to the Father.
PRAY the mass. Don’t listen to it. Love God, not yourself.

Reb Levi
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Incorrect, many of the prayers of the Mass were invented for the N.O., as opposed to the organic development in the TLM.

Could it be that the OP realizes that their is a difference between a sudden and manufactured product in the N.O., produced by a commission over the course of a few years, and the TLM which has organically developed over 1500 years and has helped nourish innumerable Saints?

Perhaps also the OP also realizes that the prayers in the N.O. were deliberately changed in order tone down the harder aspects of Catholic teaching (Hell, miracles, judgment, etc), that these prayers, and the massive changes to the Mass were in part due, according to one Archbishop Marini, the supposed changes in doctrine that occurred at VII.

Lex orandi, lex credendi. The people who changed the Mass knew it, and abused it.

Wanting the Mass that, substantially, Gregory the Great, Francis, Thomas Aquinas, Ignatius of Loyola, and Therese of Lisieux all assisted at is selfish?
 
digitalpapist said:
Incorrect, many of the prayers of the Mass were invented for the N.O., as opposed to the organic development in the TLM.

Could it be that the OP realizes that their is a difference between a sudden and manufactured product in the N.O., produced by a commission over the course of a few years, and the TLM which has organically developed over 1500 years and has helped nourish innumerable Saints?

Perhaps also the OP also realizes that the prayers in the N.O. were deliberately changed in order tone down the harder aspects of Catholic teaching (Hell, miracles, judgment, etc), that these prayers, and the massive changes to the Mass were in part due, according to one Archbishop Marini, the supposed changes in doctrine that occurred at VII.

Lex orandi, lex credendi. The people who changed the Mass knew it, and abused it.

Wanting the Mass that, substantially, Gregory the Great, Francis, Thomas Aquinas, Ignatius of Loyola, and Therese of Lisieux all assisted at is selfish?
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You seem to be new to this forum, so I’ll give you a little warning. Even if it seems like you are insulting the Ordinary Form, a moderator will hit you with the ban hammer. You are sailing in uncharted waters right now, my friend. Tread carefully.

You have been forewarned of the wrath of the moderator, Thomas Casey. :bigyikes:
 
bben15 said:
You seem to be new to this forum, so I’ll give you a little warning. Even if it seems like you are insulting the Ordinary Form, a moderator will hit you with the ban hammer. You are sailing in uncharted waters right now, my friend. Tread carefully.

You have been forewarned of the wrath of the moderator, Thomas Casey. :bigyikes:
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Virtually everything I have said was said pretty much by then Cardinal Ratzinger, so I’d be quite surprised by such a reaction.👍
 
bben15 said:
You seem to be new to this forum, so I’ll give you a little warning. Even if it seems like you are insulting the Ordinary Form, a moderator will hit you with the ban hammer. You are sailing in uncharted waters right now, my friend. Tread carefully.

You have been forewarned of the wrath of the moderator, Thomas Casey. :bigyikes:
Click to expand...
Ridiculous. How bout I quote Pope Emeritus Benedict ‘insulting’ the NO Mass.

“The liturgical reform, in its concrete realization, has distanced itself even more from its origin. The result has not been a reanimation, but devastation. In place of the liturgy, fruit of a continual development, they have placed a fabricated liturgy. They have deserted a vital process of growth and becoming in order to substitute a fabrication. They did not want to continue the development, the organic maturing of something living through the centuries, and they replaced it, in the manner of technical production, by a fabrication, a banal product of the moment.” (Ratzinger in Revue Theologisches, Vol. 20, Feb. 1990, pgs. 103-104)

Give me a break dude. It isn’t insulting to tell the truth. Or would Benedict get banned from this forum??
 
I’m simply forewarning you of the moderator’s wrath. Many have gotten banned for even appearing to insult the Ordinary Form, so I am simply telling you to tread carefully. The moderators are still on edge. 👍
 
anonymoususer said:
I am in a serious dilemma in regards to my Catholic faith. On the one hand, I can’t stand the NO mass and think the Church has trended in the wrong direction since VII. From my perspective, the current Holy Father is trying to convert the Church into a type of red cross (in other words, the Church exists for humanitarian purposes only).

But then on the other hand, I don’t hear great things about SSPX and their relationship with the Vatican.

Not that it makes any difference, but my “normal” Catholic parish and the SSPX chapel are both walking distance from my home.

It’s getting to the point that I’m thinking of just throwing my hands up and walking away . . .

What to do? Sit at home and pray the Rosary and read scripture?
Click to expand...
These are concerns you need to bring to either your RCIA director, the priest of your parish or some other trusted person. Since you are not yet a member of the Church, I strongly encourage you to stay away from the SSPX. They have a very irregular status, and my feeling is why muddy the waters. Go straight to the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

You are going to get many opinions here, but the best thing is to deal with these issues with people who know you and your situation.

Peace be with you on your journey. 🙂
 
I would not recommend you talk to anyone at your parish about this. You will get labeled a rad trad or some nonsense. Unless you are ok with that potentiality don’t talk to anyone at your parish. I’ve seen people driven away because of this stuff. As you can see with the dire warning of getting banned from this forum…that kind of thing might happen at your parish. I’m not saying you will be banned from you parish, but just treated differently etc. Not saying it will for sure but you never know. People react ridiculously to this stuff as you can tell.
 
i don’t know what the deal is with the who mass thing, you can go to whichever you prefer.

i personally love the mass as it is now. or maybe i’m just not having problems with abuse as a lot of you seem to be.

it all comes down to trust, either you trust the holy spirit knew what it was doing with the pope or you don’t.

i don’t think there’s anything wrong with the ef mass either but i thik the NO mass happened for reasons we don’t understand. when vaitcan II happened, it was the beginnings of the 60s, there was going to be quite a crisis of faith in the near future. i think god knew that traditions had to be modified a bit or else more souls would be lost.

it’s great that you love the old sacred and reverence, but God is glexible; he accepts different styles, as long the central theme is not messed with.

just a side note, any cahtolic church is 100 times more sacred feeling than any protestant church i’ve ever been to.
 
anonymoususer said:
I am in a serious dilemma in regards to my Catholic faith.

…What to do? Sit at home and pray the Rosary and read scripture?
Click to expand...
You go to mass every Sunday. You go to mass to every Holy Day. You go to confession at least once a year, and you receive the Eucharist at least once a year during Lent or the Easter season. 🤷
 
Digitalpapist Post #5
I’m not sure where you find parts of the mass “invented.” The greatest difference I have noted is in the offertory prayers and you can hardly find fault with the new prayers. They are after all nearly straight transcriptions of the Jewish blessing for bread and for wine. We as Christians are grafted onto Israel we should be using the prayer forms they use just as Rabbi Saul of Tarsus urged his Gentile converts.
Various canons are reconstructions of canons from antiquity. We are more likely to be accused of regression than innovation in that regard.
I stand by my advice to PRAY the mass. It’s not you who is important here as the original poster implies by complaining the (s)he doesn’t like the NO. Make these to be prayers from your own heart. They are addressed to the Father as they should be and they are all very beautiful.

Reb Levi
 
I need to update my profile. I am not in RCIA anymore, I was confirmed into the Church March 26, 2005. I will update my profile soon.

Here are more thoughts on my dilemma . . .
  1. I strongly believe that Saint Pius X would roll over in his grave if he saw the great sacrilege that the NO mass is. However, I think he would also roll over in his grave if he saw some of the things that are happening in the SSPX today also.
  2. I feel like, if I attend the NO mass, that I am accepting in my soul those things that I know are wrong, like the complete lack of reverence towards the sacrament, people talking and exhibiting behavior like it is a social gathering, and then you have the whole issue with the liturgy itself… a Protestant church with a crucifix does not a Catholic Church make…
  3. Let’s say my car breaks down in the middle of nowhere. Along comes a man. I ask the man for directions to my destination. The man gives me directions, and truly / honestly believes that the directions that he is providing are free of error, and he is not deliberately being deceitful or dishonest. Well, I follow his directions but I don’t end up at my destination. This is very scary . . .
  4. Any change to the Mass to make it more palatable is wrong wrong wrong wrong. I can’t help but believe that the mass was changed to make it more palatable. This ties in with #3 above.
 
You think that the Ordinary Form (‘NO’) of Mass is a great sacrilege?

You are aware that Pope Francis celebrates this Mass, are you?
 
WARNING

Offending any form of the mass, encouraging those who offend the mass, and discussing moderator action is contrary to our rules. Please read the rules in my signature and comply with them.
 
anonymoususer said:
I am in a serious dilemma in regards to my Catholic faith. On the one hand, I can’t stand the NO mass and think the Church has trended in the wrong direction since VII. From my perspective, the current Holy Father is trying to convert the Church into a type of red cross (in other words, the Church exists for humanitarian purposes only).

But then on the other hand, I don’t hear great things about SSPX and their relationship with the Vatican.

Not that it makes any difference, but my “normal” Catholic parish and the SSPX chapel are both walking distance from my home.

It’s getting to the point that I’m thinking of just throwing my hands up and walking away . . .

What to do? Sit at home and pray the Rosary and read scripture?
Click to expand...
What happened to humility and obedience to the Church. Whether you prefer the EF over the OF both Masses are valid and if you do not fulfill your Sunday obligation then you place yourself in a state of mortal sin.
 
I would like to share this brief article from Fr Hardon. I’m not implying this is what the OP is experiencing but it’s worth a peek. Particularly Fr Hardon’s conclusion.

therealpresence.org/archives/Mass/Mass_004.htm

I could go on and on about ad libbing experienced week after week Mass after Mass. But, I would guess many here simply don’t care about priests modifying prayers of the NO Mass. My rather limted (one year) exposure to EF, these modifications simply don’t happen. Lest you think I am attacking the NO, I am not. I had the great grace to attend a men’s religious shrine where the NO was reverent, orthodox AND striclty followed the GIRM. Lex orandi, Lex credendi, brothers and sisters.
 
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