Dinosaurs and the Bible

[Chris_Patterson]

You might find that the plants eaten by Adam and all the pre-Fall animals disagree with you. Plants can die as well as animals. Bacteria can die as well, and enormous numbers of them die inside our stomachs every time we eat anything. The cells of your body are dying every day of your life, and new cells are grown to replace them. Death is part of life, and inseparable from it. If Adam’s cells did not die, then he was not human, but something else.

It is not correct to believe that the pre-Fall world was perfect. Was the serpent perfect? It was there before Eve even thought of taking the fruit. Also look at Genesis 2:18 “And the Lord God said: It is not good for man to be alone” (emphasis added) In a perfect world, there cannot be anything “not good”.

This supports my point. Death comes to humans as a result of Adam’s sin. The CCC does not deal with animal death.

rossum

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, Rossum. I could see two or three things you wrote that could lead us to good discussion, but time doesn’t permit right now. Maybe later.

But for now…

1. I’d love for others to weigh in on what some of the other’s in this thread believe as far as the Catholic view of when death entered the world, and perhaps other Church writings on this subject.
2. Rossum, just for context, do you believe in the concept of Original Sin?

Thanks.

In His love,

 

[TheFollower]

Not true, there is a morning and evening in a thousand years, there is just lots more, God was talking about his morning and evening, meaning the same way that a morning and evening is for him 1 day is a thousand years to him, the same is for us, except that we get many upon many. Dinos do exist, it takes time for them to reproduce, like any species.

Do you know how fast a species can reproduce and how many can be produced in a thousand years?

The firmament is the area between our atmospher and blackness on the edge of the universe. God created a greater light(sun) and a lesser light(moon) to govern the day and night. He created the stars(other worlds and galaxies) and set them in the firmament. Gen 1: 14-- read that whole section and you will see.

The area between the ground and atmospher is called the lower waters, then the firmament(2nd waters) and the outside of the Universe, or the black space where no light reaches is the 3rd waters. God calls them waters because he said in the beginning darkness covers the face of the deep Gen 1: 3. It is the eternal sea.

But, who wrote Genesis? Moses. God inspired Moses to write the Pentateuch He is the Divine Author.

Don’t you think God inspired Moses and the rest of them to write in a human’s point of view? After all Moses is a person too.

God Bless.

 

[rossum]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, Rossum. I could see two or three things you wrote that could lead us to good discussion, but time doesn’t permit right now. Maybe later.

Yeah, real life is always getting in the way…

1. Rossum, just for context, do you believe in the concept of Original Sin?

No. Sin is a Christian concept, not a Buddhist one. The closest Buddhism has to sin is ‘unwise action’. Also, there is no concept of collective guilt for (almost) all humans, as with Original Sin. In Buddhism we are all solely responsible for, and affected by, our own actions. The downside of not having sin, is that there is no forgiveness of sin either: if you do the crime, then you do the time.

rossum

 

[Philipp]

This is a strange statement, but let me point out that this thread has been moved to the Sacred Scripture forum, where discussion of evolution is banned. This doesn’t, I assume, mean we can’t discuss the age of the universe, timing of extinctions, taxonomy, that sort of thing, as long as we don’t directly get into evolution.

Modern Scientific studies of C-14 content of dinosaur bones shows that there is NO 65 millions years between dinosaurs and man. Contamination from modern C-14 has been ruled out as all licensed labs in Univsersities and privat industgry know how to remove contamination.

Thus this evidence for 2000 times younger ages for dinosaurs from Texas to Alaska extracted from Cretaceous to Jurassic formations support the many scriptural references to dragons alias dinosaurs and flying reptiles. Even a dinosaur form China and a marine reptile from a European Museum support the eividence from scritpure that such critters lived with man and mammals. Just google: earth age or dinosaur c14 ages and dinosaur depictions.

This suggest two points (1) The most obvious is that this data agrees with main stream science that major catastrophes have occurred on earth to produce these fossils; but, 2000 times more recently than some chronological methods claim. (2) Such a far more recent history of catastrophism supports the scriptural claim of a world-wide flood and indirectly accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.

I think that we should all go back to reading Genesis 1-11. It all makes good sense in light of modern physics, chemistry and archaeological discoveries. If you have a Douay-Rheims “Holy Bible” then a reread of the Summary of Pope Leo XIII Providentissimus Deus is recommended and so follow his instructions carefully. Don’t be caught in the errors of Modernism..

 

[feed_me]

But, who wrote Genesis? Moses. God inspired Moses to write the Pentateuch He is the Divine Author.

Don’t you think God inspired Moses and the rest of them to write in a human’s point of view? After all Moses is a person too.

God Bless.

Yes, but Moses is going to write it from a humans POV, but from Gods’ POV the meaning of what he says is more deeper than what he lets on. If you read Revelations, John saw things in the future that only he could decribed from a persons POV in his day; as an example when John said he saw locust looking thing having power over the earth, he knew what a locust looked like, but he could only decribe what he saw as to what he knew. If I saw into the future and saw flying cars, how would I actually describe that? I would use what I know from today to describe what I saw. I could say that it is a flying metal bettle that takes a person from place to place.

 

[TheFollower]

Yes, but Moses is going to write it from a humans POV, but from Gods’ POV the meaning of what he says is more deeper than what he lets on. If you read Revelations, John saw things in the future that only he could decribed from a persons POV in his day; as an example when John said he saw locust looking thing having power over the earth, he knew what a locust looked like, but he could only decribe what he saw as to what he knew. If I saw into the future and saw flying cars, how would I actually describe that? I would use what I know from today to describe what I saw. I could say that it is a flying metal bettle that takes a person from place to place.

Exactly, Moses wrote how people could only see it. If it was one thousand mornings and evenings equaled one day why didn’t God just have Moses say: “And there were one thousand mornings and evenings, one day.” ? Do you get what I am saying?

God Bless.

 

[feed_me]

Exactly, Moses wrote how people could only see it. If it was one thousand mornings and evenings equaled one day why didn’t God just have Moses say: “And there were one thousand mornings and evenings, one day.” ? Do you get what I am saying?

God Bless.

I do, but God doesn’t work at making it easy for people to understand, if that is what you are asking. Jesus used parables to explain things that he could of easily said in plain english. Read Mark 4 1: 12 or type it in google. But he doesn’t, because he keeps the unbelievers away from the truth, the same way that he knows that wolves will use the scriptures, or truth to twist it around for there own benifit. Even Jesus condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for it. Unfortunatly we still see it going on today. Obvously it shows the true intentions of the pastors, or other people that don’t truely understand .

 

[TheFollower]

I do, but God doesn’t work at making it easy for people to understand, if that is what you are asking. Jesus used parables to explain things that he could of easily said in plain english. Read Mark 4 1: 12 or type it in google. But he doesn’t, because he keeps the unbelievers away from the truth, the same way that he knows that wolves will use the scriptures, or truth to twist it around for there own benifit. Even Jesus condemned the Scribes and Pharisees for it. Unfortunatly we still see it going on today. Obvously it shows the true intentions of the pastors, or other people that don’t truely understand .

So you are saying: God created the world in 6000 evenings and mornings meaning, God created the world in around 16 years and rested for around 3 years? Just making sure. Because, God can make something faster than a blink of an eye.

Do you really think God waited 5000 days before creating man? That seems silly.

No, I am not saying that God would have made it easier. I am saying, if it is true then God would inspire Moses to put it there in order to see if anyone will believe it.

True, Jesus does keep some unbelievers away. But, not all like Dr. Scott Hahn.

Oh, do you agree on the leviathan being a dinosaur or devil?

God Bless.

 

[rossum]

Modern Scientific studies of C-14 content of dinosaur bones shows that there is NO 65 millions years between dinosaurs and man. Contamination from modern C-14 has been ruled out as all licensed labs in Univsersities and privat industgry know how to remove contamination.

I have a set of kitchen scales. They weigh up to 20 pounds max; they can’t weigh any larger weight. I put my kitchen scales on the floor, and stand on them. They show 20 pounds. What does that 20 pound reading mean?

1. Great! my weight loss plan is really working well.
2. I have maxed out my scales, and I actually weigh 20 pounds, or more. Probably more.

If you answered 1, then I have this guaranteed weight loss plan to sell you at a mere $499.95 (plus p&p).

C-14 dating works up to about 50,000 years on modern equipment, 30,000 on older kit. Anything beyond those limits and you are just seeing how sensitive the laboratory equipment is, and how much contamination is left over from the previous sample they measured. The creationist website you got this from was lying to you.

Thus this evidence for 2000 times younger ages for dinosaurs

I notice that you are very careful not to give an actual figure for the date found. 65,000,000 / 2,000 = 32,500 years. Are you seriously trying to tell us that fossils, which even you admit are at least 32,500 years old can serve as evidence for a 6,000 year old universe? Surely you don’t think we are that stupid? It is possible that the creationist website you got this rubbish from might be that idiotic. In future, please check more carefully before posting their junk here.

rossum

 

[feed_me]

So you are saying: God created the world in 6000 evenings and mornings meaning, God created the world in around 16 years and rested for around 3 years? Just making sure. Because, God can make something faster than a blink of an eye.

Nope, 12 months=1 year, to us at least. 1000 years = 1 day to God. Did you read my other posts in this thread?

Do you really think God waited 5000 days before creating man? That seems silly.

Without a planet supporting life you can’t create man. God is eternal, why does he have to speed things up? 1000 year reign is the same thing as Gods 7th day of rest, which will be the same to us, just without the devils.

No, I am not saying that God would have made it easier. I am saying, if it is true then God would inspire Moses to put it there in order to see if anyone will believe it.

Even Jesus spoke in plain english but people still chose not to believe.

True, Jesus does keep some unbelievers away. But, not all like Dr. Scott Hahn.

???

Oh, do you agree on the leviathan being a dinosaur or devil?

The devil can produce signes and wonders, and appear as and angel of light.

God Bless.

 

[edwest2]

This does not have the effect I suspect that you think it does. See my post #11 in this thread.

We already know there are dinosaurs alive today, here is a picture of one:

http://www.thedailygreen.com/cm/thedailygreen/images/fx/greater-rhea-de.jpg

rossum

That is incorrect:

sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100209183335.htm

sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090609092055.htm

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Could a creature meaningfully be called a man if it did not have a rational soul? Not that that would change the fact that there were no men at the time of the known non-avian dinosaurs.

There is no scientific backing for this claim about man. Science can tell us nothing about the soul.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I’m not sure if being immaterial automatically means the human soul is supernatural. Certainly the souls of other living things are natural, and it is a part of human nature to have a rational, immortal soul. Then again the human soul cannot arise from purely natural causes but must be created directly by God at the moment of conception, and so I could see calling it “supernatural” in the sense of having a supernatural origin. In this sense though, the entire physical universe as a whole would also be supernatural.

Also, while empirical science cannot study the human soul directly, it can study the body of which the soul is the form, and furthermore can study human psychology. I’m not sure there is any general knowledge concerning the natural human soul that could not be potentially known from this kind of study (with the assumptions and degrees of uncertainty always present in this kind of science). The grace that God gives to the soul would be another, truly supernatural matter which really would be beyond the purview of science, apart from some of the effects of actual grace.

Please look up “evolutionary psychology.” From that viewpoint, our brains rewired themselves, programmed themselves and then upgraded themselves. It’s all chemicals and reactions to outside stimuli.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

Modern Scientific studies of C-14 content of dinosaur bones shows that there is NO 65 millions years between dinosaurs and man. Contamination from modern C-14 has been ruled out as all licensed labs in Univsersities and privat industgry know how to remove contamination.

Thus this evidence for 2000 times younger ages for dinosaurs from Texas to Alaska extracted from Cretaceous to Jurassic formations support the many scriptural references to dragons alias dinosaurs and flying reptiles. Even a dinosaur form China and a marine reptile from a European Museum support the eividence from scritpure that such critters lived with man and mammals. Just google: earth age or dinosaur c14 ages and dinosaur depictions.

This suggest two points (1) The most obvious is that this data agrees with main stream science that major catastrophes have occurred on earth to produce these fossils; but, 2000 times more recently than some chronological methods claim. (2) Such a far more recent history of catastrophism supports the scriptural claim of a world-wide flood and indirectly accounts for the diversity of life we see. The core makeup shared by all living things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being able to preserve the “kind” that they began as. Life has been created with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.

I think that we should all go back to reading Genesis 1-11. It all makes good sense in light of modern physics, chemistry and archaeological discoveries. If you have a Douay-Rheims “Holy Bible” then a reread of the Summary of Pope Leo XIII Providentissimus Deus is recommended and so follow his instructions carefully. Don’t be caught in the errors of Modernism..

" sigh "

The Bible is not a science book.

The Bible (Genesis) is a science book.

While physics, chemistry and archaeology are all nice and good. The question is:

Did GOD actually do anything in Genesis? You know, like Jesus raising the dead without science and technology or telling the wind and waves to be quiet and still or literally walking on water? Does God need science to perform miracles?

As far as the dinosaurs in the Bible, I think there’s enough outside evidence that (a) the rock dates are wrong, (b) uniformity as opposed to catastrophism is wrong, and (c) people just do not do independent research.

What is that in the Palestrina Mosaic:

s8int.com/dinolit2.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[rossum]

That is incorrect:

sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100209183335.htm

sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090609092055.htm

That is work by a single scientist, Dr Ruben. I have already responded to Buffalo, here, on that topic.

To summarise: “Ruben is in a minority. That doesn’t mean he is wrong, but it doesn’t mean that he is right either. Parts of his work are weak. The current consensus is that the dino-bird link is still strong.”

rossum

 

[TheFollower]

Nope, 12 months=1 year, to us at least. 1000 years = 1 day to God. Did you read my other posts in this thread?

Without a planet supporting life you can’t create man. God is eternal, why does he have to speed things up? 1000 year reign is the same thing as Gods 7th day of rest, which will be the same to us, just without the devils.

Even Jesus spoke in plain english but people still chose not to believe.

???

The devil can produce signes and wonders, and appear as and angel of light.

First, Adam only lived around 930 years he was around 130 years old when Seth was born. (Gen 5:1-5). Yet you claim he lived 1000 years during the Day of Rest. Explain?

Some people chose not to believe but, not all like the 3000 in (Acts 2:41).

God Bless.

 

[Bernadette173]

So I was watching Jurassic Park earlier and that got me thinking about how dinosaurs are treated in Scripture.

I know there’s some mention of dinosaur-like creatures in the Old Testament and then I did some research. Or rather, I googled it and found out that there are Christians who believe dinosaurs may have co-existed with humans at some point and that the earth is only 5000 years old and that carbon dating apparently has some huge flaw.

And now I’m just confused and wondering how exactly can we reconcile the ideas we know about dinosaurs (they lived 65 million years ago and were probably wiped out by a comet or something) and the Bible (the Creation story).

Try to not put too much stock into evolutionism.Evolutionism is an attempt by atheists to disprove the existence of God. Plain and simple.By using biological sciences atheists try to confuse believers into something that is simply not true. That God does not exist. That life can come from nonliving matter is also nonsense from evolutionism that presupposes that the life chain '‘came to life’ randomly and that God did not somehow play a part in man’s creation…
I would strongly suggest that wherever you Googled this from that you look at it, and take it with a grain of salt. There are many things that people try to disguise as science or teachings on life that are only selling points to pull you away from your religion, and straight toward atheistic ideologies.

God Bless You,

 

[edwest2]

You know, the Church is not particularly excited about it.

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”

But, I sense the beating of the dead horse will continue

Peace,
Ed

 

[feed_me]

Try to not put too much stock into evolutionism.Evolutionism is an attempt by atheists to disprove the existence of God. Plain and simple.By using biological sciences atheists try to confuse believers into something that is simply not true. That God does not exist. That life can come from nonliving matter is also nonsense from evolutionism that presupposes that the life chain '‘came to life’ randomly and that God did not somehow play a part in man’s creation…
I would strongly suggest that wherever you Googled this from that you look at it, and take it with a grain of salt. There are many things that people try to disguise as science or teachings on life that are only selling points to pull you away from your religion, and straight toward atheistic ideologies.

God Bless You,

Evolution is another lie of the devil to get you to believe that they can live as bad as they want and nothing will happen to people when they die.

@ the follower

Nothing to explain. Lets stay at the beginning of our lesson first before moving on.

 

[rossum]

By using biological sciences atheists try to confuse believers into something that is simply not true.

That does not make biology untrue. Atheists use passages from the Bible to argue against God, does that make the Bible untrue? Atheists use events from history to argue against God, does that make history untrue? Merely because an atheist uses something in an argument does not make that thing untrue.

Many parts of science, do make certain interpretation of the Bible untrue, but merely because one specific interpretation is incorrect does not mean all interpretations are incorrect. There are hundreds of different Protestant interpretations of the Bible out there, that are incorrect according to the Catholic Church. The existence of those incorrect interpretations does not impact on the correctness of the Catholic Church’s interpretation.

rossum