Dinosaurs and the Flood

[CaptainPrudeman]

You do realize that:

1. The vikings did not have Columbus’s level of technology. They were more on par with the natives than he was.
2. The vikings landed in Newfoundland, and Columbus landed in Hispaniola. One is pretty cold, the other is much more temperate and hospitable.
3. The Taino natives were much kinder to Columbus and pals than the Canadian natives were to the Vikings.

Literally nothing went right in Vinland and pretty much everything did for Columbus. I don’t see how the situations are remotely comparable.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Again, there is no ‘Darwinist folklore’. You might as well talk about Galilean folklore or Newtonian folklore. And man didn’t appear a bare 80,000 years ago. We emerged from Africa approximately 300,000 years ago. We arrived in Australia 80,000 years ago.

And incidentally, the wheel only made an appearance around 3,500 years ago. And not in Australia or America. Or the inhabitants of the New World.

Right, so humans have existed for 300,000 years but they only discovered writing, the wheel and metallurgy in the last 3500 years? That makes no sense.

At what point does God creating man in his image (Adam and Eve) fit into your
Darwinist tale?

I don’t think that you have a sufficient grasp of evolution, taxonomy or the rate of technological advancement for a reasonable discussion to occur.

 

[PickyPicky]

Right, so humans have existed for 300,000 years but they only discovered writing, the wheel and metallurgy in the last 3500 years? That makes no sense.

And the aeroplane. They could easily have flown across from Asia. I suppose they just didn’t have good old American get-up-and-go.

 

[Freddy]

Buzzard3:

Right, so humans have existed for 300,000 years but they only discovered writing, the wheel and metallurgy in the last 3500 years? That makes no sense.

And the aeroplane. They could easily have flown across from Asia. I suppose they just didn’t have good old American get-up-and-go.

I think the dove that came back with the olive branch was actually a drone. But they don’t know where it came from because they hadn’t invented the chronometer - so no longitude.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

You know, I’ve always lamented the lack of phoenixes. Amazing creatures, they are. I’m sure Mrs Noah was sensible and realised birds that spontaneously combust and fire-breathing dragons would be detrimental to survival on floating tinder.

 

[whatistrue]

Right, so humans have existed for 300,000 years but they only discovered writing, the wheel and metallurgy in the last 3500 years? That makes no sense.

Writing, the wheel, and metallurgy weren’t discovered, they were invented. All of these things had to be developed over time by multiple people sharing information, and if you spend every waking moment looking for enough food to make it through the day you don’t have time to think about much else or share it if you do. It was only when we figured out how to be able to stay in one spot and grow our food rather than wander around and search for it that we had enough time for such things to come into existence.

 

[Gorgias]

Writing, the wheel, and metallurgy weren’t discovered, they were invented.

Unless you’re an ‘Ancient Aliens’ aficionado. In that case, we “discovered” these things by virtue of receiving them from the alien races who built human culture!

 

[Rau]

Right, so humans have existed for 300,000 years but they only discovered writing, the wheel and metallurgy in the last 3500 years? That makes no sense.

If you read genesis to be actual history of the people named therein, your reasoning is understandable. The “genesis” history and scientific history of early humans can’t be reconciled. But do note that the church does not herself hold to (or require) such a reading of genesis.

 

[NevermoreLenore]

The “genesis” history and scientific history of early humans can’t be reconciled.

Do you mean that the literal interpretation of the genesis story is not compatible with scientific history? My understanding is that when we allow the creation scriptures to be allegorical, that allows scripture and science to coexist. (I’m asking for clarity because I grew up fundamentalist/evangelical and evolution was BAD…the earth is 6K years old. Being Catholic 7/8 years or so, I’m still getting my sea legs).

 

[Buzzard3]

I don’t think that you have a sufficient grasp of evolution, taxonomy or the rate of technological advancement for a reasonable discussion to occur.

If humans have been around for 300,000 years, why did they invent writing and the wheel only about 5500 years ago?

According to your Darwinist folklore, when did God create man in his own image?

 

[Buzzard3]

And the aeroplane. They could easily have flown across from Asia. I suppose they just didn’t have good old American get-up-and-go.

In other words, you have no sensible explanation for why, if humans have existed for 300, 000 years, they invented writing and the wheel only about 5500 years ago.

Simple logic and historical facts suggests the “300,000 years” of Darwinist folklore is an absurd myth.

 

[Buzzard3]

Writing, the wheel, and metallurgy weren’t discovered, they were invented. All of these things had to be developed over time by multiple people sharing information, and if you spend every waking moment looking for enough food to make it through the day you don’t have time to think about much else or share it if you do. It was only when we figured out how to be able to stay in one spot and grow our food rather than wander around and search for it that we had enough time for such things to come into existence.

According to Darwinist folklore, humans have existed for 300, 000 years, yet writing and the wheel were invented only about 5500 years ago. The first sailing boats appeared only about 6000 years ago.
It took us almost 300, 000 years to invent these things? Nonsense.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I don’t think that you have a sufficient grasp of evolution, taxonomy or the rate of technological advancement for a reasonable discussion to occur.

If humans have been around for 300,000 years, why did they invent writing and the wheel only about 5500 years ago?

According to your Darwinist folklore, when did God create man in his own image?

It’s already been answered. You chose to ignore the answer. Why ask the same question? It can only be answered the same way. Here’s a precis of ‘Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel’:

‘Societies that had had a head start in food production advanced beyond the hunter-gatherer stage, and then developed religion --as well as nasty germs and potent weapons of war --and adventured on sea and land to conquer and decimate preliterate cultures.’

I recommend you read it. It contains all you will need to know. $15 as a Kindle. Well worth it for the knowledge it will impart.

As was previously explained, when one moves from hunter gatherer groups to settled societies which can produce and store their own food, then technological advances (including writing) will advance at a geometric rate. Can you think why?

Plus bear in mind that ‘necessity is the mother of invention’.

 

[Buzzard3]

Do you mean that the literal interpretation of the genesis story is not compatible with scientific history? My understanding is that when we allow the creation scriptures to be allegorical, that allows scripture and science to coexist. (I’m asking for clarity because I grew up fundamentalist/evangelical and evolution was BAD…the earth is 6K years old. Being Catholic 7/8 years or so, I’m still getting my sea legs).

I accept the scientific evidence that suggests life earth began millions-billions of years ago. But I don’t accept the Darwinist fairy tale that humans have existed for 300,000 years.

The fact that writing, the wheel, metallurgy and sailing boats didn’t appear until only about 5000-6000 years ago strongly suggests humans are nothing like 300,000 years old.

But why let historical facts and simple logic ruin a good myth?

 

[Buzzard3]

It’s already been answered. You chose to ignore the answer. Why ask the same question? It can only be answered the same way. Here’s a precis of ‘Diamond’s Guns, Germs and Steel’:

‘Societies that had had a head start in food production advanced beyond the hunter-gatherer stage, and then developed religion --as well as nasty germs and potent weapons of war --and adventured on sea and land to conquer and decimate preliterate cultures.’

I recommend you read it. It contains all you will need to know. $15 as a Kindle. Well worth it for the knowledge it will impart.

As was previously explained, when one moves from hunter gatherer groups to settled societies which can produce and store their own food, then technological advances (including writing) will advance at a geometric rate. Can you think why?

Plus bear in mind that ‘necessity is the mother of invention’.

That is a rather ordinary attempt to explain why it took humans the best part of 300,000 years to invent writing , the wheel and sailing boats. Someone of your intelligence should be able to do much better than that.

Since you are a geophysicist, can you please briefly explain how the first humans tools came to be dated to hundreds of thousands of years ago?

 

[PickyPicky]

In other words, you have no sensible explanation for why, if humans have existed for 300, 000 years, they invented writing and the wheel only about 5500 years ago

I fear I don’t understand why you think it needs explanation. Writing, for instance, is an astounding invention. That it should have been developed as early as it was — that’s what is so surprising.

The truth is that hunter-gatherers have little use for writing or for wheeled transport. It took a mighty change of mindset (and the appearance of some fat-eared grain) for hunter-gathering to give way to agriculture, and then wheeled transport became valuable.

Only when the surplus from agriculture grew great enough to support cities and a governing elite was it useful to have a means of recording tribute and storage.

Most of human existence has been lived hand-to-mouth, the way the rest of nature lives, and the way many societies have lived until the last century. People living that way don’t have the time to invent, and don’t have the need, either.

 

[Buzzard3]

I don’t think that you have a sufficient grasp of evolution, taxonomy or the rate of technological advancement for a reasonable discussion to occur

At what stage did God create man in his image? 300,000 years ago? This is a perfectly reasonable question. Your unwillingness to answer it suggests perhaps that you are unsure of or insecure in your beliefs.

 

[Buzzard3]

I fear I don’t understand why you think it needs explanation. Writing, for instance, is an astounding invention. That it should have been developed as early as it was — that’s what is so surprising.

As an atheist you have little choice but to accept the Darwinist tale that a primitive, half-witted “human” existed 300,000 years ago. But a human made in image of God was not a moronic ape-man, but an intelligent being. Such intelligent beings would not need 300,000 years to invent writing!

The truth is that hunter-gatherers have little use for writing or for wheeled transport. It took a mighty change of mindset (and the appearance of some fat-eared grain) for hunter-gathering to give way to agriculture, and then wheeled transport became valuable.

Only when the surplus from agriculture grew great enough to support cities and a governing elite was it useful to have a means of recording tribute and storage.

Most of human existence has been lived hand-to-mouth, the way the rest of nature lives, and the way many societies have lived until the last century. People living that way don’t have the time to invent, and don’t have the need, either

Hilarious - it took 300,000 years for human beings to think of a use for writing and the wheel!

 

[PickyPicky]

But why let historical facts and simple logic ruin a good myth?

It is clear that you believe the current findings of history, archaeology and biology to be incredible. You have expressed your incredulity forcibly. But could you now move to explaining the historical facts and simple logic that have escaped the professionals in these fields?

 

[CaptainPrudeman]

For the vast majority of our history, humans were too busy getting bodied by nature to actually accomplish much. There have been multiple points where we were actually an endangered species. Plus, worldwide conditions from the last Ice Age didn’t clear up for a long while, and this prevented agriculture from taking hold. So writing, a concept that can’t really exist without society, was bottlenecked by agriculture. Everything was, really. If you need to move to find food, more energy is spent on that than exchanging ideas and inventing things. It’s not a coincidence that metallurgy, the wheel, and writing all emerged once agriculture did. They all depended on the exchange of ideas, since none of those things have a natural analogue that humans could have observed prior to society.

Instead of just dismissing what’s been said, can you please refute the above explanation?

@Buzzard3